Posts made by Woodstock

I think I am gonna have to agree with Bigdog.

Currently I am in 2 games, both as the Axis without bid. (Note that this is Revised, but in AA:50 it might even be better, considering the no’s)

I played a conservative Germany.

Result, in both games I am in control of Karelia, Belo, and UKR. There is even a fleet in the Baltic ( a small one) Japan is ready to take Africa, piss the hell outof USA by invading Vanada, setting up a IC in bRazil.

In both games, the future looks bright. The USA; Yes, they have a gigantic fleet in the Atlantic, but no units that they can put on land. And he needs those units to consolidate Canada.
UKhas some money (+20), jus enough to refuel its transports, which I will reduce in a round or 2 withe Luftwaff
And so on.

As for the NO’s and such, just this Thursday the developer announced he had an anlpha release ready, and they are testing it.
He expects a Beta this week.
(However, sligth problem, tripleadev.org went down yesterday….)

And Jen…it’s kinda cheap to knock on TripleA being it’s 10th release, where Battlemap is only at .87 or whatvere.
What do you think? Battlemap is a picture, and other small pictures that you need to drag around yourself.
TripleA actually incorporates an entire game engine.

Let me see you do that in one release…

Hey.

TripleA does have the AA:50 maps and all, but not the new rules yet.
The real thing will be released in a week or so, with all the new tech’s, rules and NO’s incorporated.

Keep an eye out on www.tripleadev.org

It is down at the moemnt, so I hope they will get it back up soon…

Ow come on. Don’t start about bids already.
Heck, I refuse to play with bids in AA:R, and I’ve even won quite a share of games with the Axis.
Tossing in bids just seems to easy.

Observations/Recommendations:  this was our third game of 41, axis won all 3 times, we each had a shot as the allies; it seems like russia needs something to keep them alive longer, we’ll see. 1st time IC built in india, it definitely helped US by diverting some of the japanese fleet, and US could spend more money in atlantic because of it. brazil IC was good idea but perhaps IMO those monies could have been spent elsewhere. money was spent on tech but it didn’t change much, NO’s def favor the axis so far… next up 42 scenario!!!

Look at it. Russia built all tanks? Strange defensive posture…they’ll lack number of units too fast.
Uk builds IC in India. Happens more often, but is it thát smart, if you want to crush Germany?
Brazil IC? Usually, a waste of money.

See…there are many more ways to win as Allied then just tossing them a few bucks. Every strategy has it weaknesses.
Sure…it might turn into the old KGF/KRF race again, but still…

Even for your first time play, it seemed like you employed a very “tuned” strategy.  Guess A&A.org helps a lot.

Yes it does. I might be the one of our playgroup playing A&A, but by reading and planning in Triple A, I usually win nonetheless ;-)

Masterchief, after posting something in Jen’s Allied posibility to win in 42 topic, this might be a bit cotradictive.

But no matter what the Axis do, I just noticed what it is tat struck me in your inital post with which I couldn’t agree. It’s this:

Eventually the UK and secure Africa, invade Italy, get reinforced by Russian Infantry, and bomb Germany. This in turn lets the Soviets advance into Poland. You have basically thrown Germany into France, Northwestern Europe, and Germany…. (assuming you sent some Russians to get Norway/Finland. Bam, you beat the Germans. Russians attack the Japs from China, UK starts invading the Asian islands, United States sends its fleet to the sea Zone Japan is in, hindering Japans ability to actually defend its islands from the UK. Russia garrisons the borders of China… and I guess you can get crazy and start building a fleet at this point but whatever.

I mean, I do agree, the Allied are pretty much assured of victory, but not by going that way ^.
If the Axis indeed go for Africa, and you start following them as UK, what do you have in the long run? Something that cost you a lot, and units scattered all over Africa.

Inavde Italy. Yes. Indeed, that’s what you should do by round 4. But how can you do that with your units scattered in Africa?

Russians attack the Japs from China? With which units? And why would you? It takes Japan 4 turns before they can be of any effect from there.

And where was the USA in your story? Sorry, I forgot.
But what I am saying, yes, the Allies win, but just plummeth everything in Morocco, and let everything invade Europe.

And then to conclude, an answer to Jen’s questions.

We’re two rounds in and China’s obliterated,

Yes? What did you expect? It’s China for god’s sake. They dont even have an economy. Offcourse they are dead.
But play those few units you have right, and it should Japan take at least till turn 3 before actually being able to move through China.

England’s stuck on their little island and anything bigger than a paper boat they put in the water is sunk IMMEDIATELY

I hope this is an exaggeration, because else, you have effed up as UK. How can you not be able to rebuild some fleet that can at least survive a bit, with a sea zone at the other side of UK?
Remember, you don’t need to actually get off the Islnd before turn 3, or 4. That means you can dedicate to navy and airforce in utrn 1,2 and 3.

and Russia’s standing on her own while

Offcourse they are. And they can be…untill round 4,.

Japan and Germany come marching at her.

Logically…but they won’t make it there untill turn 4, the turn on which Allied hell will be unleashed on every soft spot.

(Oh yea, and Italy’s so powerful they have a Complex in Egypt and are laughing and having a good old time with it….)

Now what can Italy possibly do in S-Africa, that actuially poses a threat to you?
Build 2 units. Whoop dee doo.

Of course, it’s only game one of 1942 for us, but I’m seriously wondering if maybe we need to buff the British a bit?

Hell no.
Off course, I have played only 1 game of '42, and that was a win for me as the Axis, but the more and more I look at it, and also taking any other global A&A variant in memory, where every game I lost was when the Allied pull this strategy aswell…I am starting to believe that a well-played Operation Torch is a guaranteed path to succes.

I think, the question is: “How long can Russia hold out on it’s own against Germany?”

Let’s face it, a good Russian player, can usually hold out 4, 5 turns. No matter what. Even if Germany, Italy AND Japan throw everything against Russia, it takes the Axis to reach Moscow that long.
(Face it, Japan needs 4 turns alone, just counting territories. Germany + Italy combined, with Russia throwing everything into that front, it will take them 4 turns aswell.)

And thus, the question should be: “Can the allies hold out 'till, and build a decent invasion force by, round 4?”

And then I think that we all can say, fullheartedly yes.

Forget the Pacific, forget India, forget Africa!
Use the allied units on the board wisely, sparingly and smart, based on conservation (those who can be of use at turn 4 still, spare them!) and delay (those units, who will be dead by turn 4 no matter what, use them as stall) and by round 4, an impressive force can have gathered up during an extended Operation Torch, spread over 4 turns, in Morocco.

At that point, the Allies have a choice of 3 targets. Scandinivia, France, and Italy.
And even Caucasus is within reach, for emergency aid to the Russians.

As a mostly Axis player, I can say…Good luck having all those 4 spots covered by turn 4 as Germany…

But what, when the Axis do not go KRF?
Well…nothing. You just carry on.
What can the Axis have possibly achieved in 4 turns, if they did not go KRF? Japan vs USA…takes them at least 4 turns to actually be a threat to Western USA.

Germany vs UK? Sure…Germany can start Operation Sealion…but again…if they want to be sure that that will succeed, they need to put in every IPC, and face a stupid British player.

By that turn 4, with a Germany putting everything in Operation Sea Lion, the Japans going for Los Angeles, Russia should be at least in the Vicinity of Berlin.

Plus, the combined Allied forces, unleash hell on Europe, immediately seizing Germany’s and Italian NO’s and major income territories. In 3 places. Good luck recovering from that as Italy or Germany…

I think you have a guaranteed Allied succes there.
…

Can someone prove me wrong please…? This would suck as the Axis player…

Ow, the bomber can’t SBR fgrom Alaska, unless it lands in Russia.
Have Japan take two Russian territories, and the US bomber can’t make it.

@MasterChief096:

I have seen Japan roll China quickly and take India… it upped their IPCs enough to have three battleships with various cruisers/destroyers/subs/Aircraft carriers w/ fighters… Very very risky if the United States focuses on putting Pressure on Germany/Italy.  IMO, UK needs to consolidate its African forces to Egypt, blow up the German Fleet, and industrial bomb Italy. Italy doesn’t start with a lot of IPCs, thus making it repair its factory each turn really hurts their effort, and hinders their ability to leave Italy/Balkans.

That does seem to be the way to go for the Allies, but you are painting a very positive picture.

United States should fully focus on Japan. If the US is throwing enough Pressure on Japan, Japan worries less about taking China, and more about defending against the US.

USA going for Japan, wont be making Japan take on China any less. In J1, japan can get enough units positioned to take on China. Without any further investment on this front, Japan should easily make it to Chinghai before being stopped there.
By then, Japan’s income will have outgrown USA’s, especially if NO’s are in play.
If USA wants to pose a threat to Japan, they need to invest EVERYTHING. And as others stated, without USA help in Europe, the European theatre will heavily benefit the Axis.

Russia needs to pump  out infantry each turn, and not worry about anything. Russia needs to bleed German forces and force the Germans to defend with valuable ground units.

German’s production > Russia’s. The only advantage Russia has, is the sheer amout of attacking units from the start available, and the long way from Berlin to Moscow.
Only INF’s for Russia, will be their death. Over time, you will lose your attacking units, as Germany is constantly pumping out tanks and fighters.

My point being, if you hinder Japans ability to gain a lot of IPCs,

How?

and you trap Italy in Italy…

UK focusing on Italy, and no USA help? Germany will have a field day, and even possibily set up an effective Operation Sealion.

you beat the Axis. If you put a bomber in Alaska (I’m not sure yet) I think you can industrial bomb the hell out of Japan.

2 transport’s shucking from Japan to Alaska = a dead bomber.

Which should let you have an edge over them with IPCs,

Not an edge. Maybe get on par at best.

allowing your fleet to become more and more larger than Japan’s Each turn. China STARTS WITH ONE FIGHTER,

which is dead at J1

this is immensely import to keep alive. It makes taking China a bit harder.

Eventually the UK and secure Africa, invade Italy, get reinforced by Russian Infantry, and bomb Germany. This in turn lets the Soviets advance into Poland. You have basically thrown Germany into France, Northwestern Europe, and Germany…. (assuming you sent some Russians to get Norway/Finland. Bam, you beat the Germans. Russians attack the Japs from China, UK starts invading the Asian islands, United States sends its fleet to the sea Zone Japan is in, hindering Japans ability to actually defend its islands from the UK. Russia garrisons the borders of China… and I guess you can get crazy and start building a fleet at this point but whatever.

I am not saying your strategy is bull, in fact, it is very feasible, but you are neglecting everything the Axis can do aswell.
With an Axis player just sitting there, doing nothing, it might work, but believe me, the Axis can do enough to hinder your plans.

@Alair:

@Black_Elk:

mmmm Burma
That is intriguing isn’t it :-D
If it comes down to a production race, that would definitely put more pressure on Caucasus.

What do you guys think about avoiding sz 53 attack to bait the Americans into a Pacific war?

I like your thinking.

I’ve only ever played the '41 scenario, but let me tell you… the game has changed.  Now it’s setup so that America HAS to contend with Germany and devote resources there.  Let America come, I wouldn’t even factor it into your first turn’s build.  If they come for you then you’ve already won the game, because Germany will steamroll Russia without American assisstance.

You have to look at the big picture, scaring USA off is doing a disservice to your team.

Agreed 100 %.
And if we are going by that picture….Has anyone ever considered an IC buy on one of the two 4-IPC islands?
I did it in yesterday’s 41 game, but the Allies gave up after that round, so I never got to use it, and I had 3 transports laying there already, so I might be abit biased.

If you place it on East Indies on J1, you can set up invading forces at J2, targeting Australia (NO, plus -2 for UK, an even bigger help for Germany, along with the distracted USA), or set up for India (NO, plus -3 for UK), or set up for 5/6 territories in Africa (French-Madagascar, It. Africa, Anglo-Egypt Sudan, Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Persia, no explanation for benefits needed), or replenish the forces that go for China, opening Russia’s backdoor.

There you go, with one IC, you are targeting for 4 possible goals, which all help you, and Germany & Italy.
If you retreat your initial fleet into that area aswell, leaving only some protection for your 2 transports (I bought one aswell) at Japan, USA won’t be able to hit you on USA1, and needs to enter the pacific theatre himself, giving you the defense position, which isn’t a bad thing, as the entire theatre is yours already.

Let him come, and strike him with a bunch of subs, or planes, or whatever. Even if you are busy with just USA (which is easy, having both Japan and East Indies feeding the navy, striking him from two sides), that’s a good thing. No combined allied attack in Europe.

I’m looking at it now, and out of Japan’s limited '42 options, this seems kinda interesting.
Not good, but interesting  :-D

Possible purchase? IC, TP, 1 art (so you can fill both your TP’s on J2), and a research token. Then pray to god for Improved shipyard  :wink:

@TG:

G1 was pretty conservative. Egypt was taken, Karelia wasn’t, SZ2 was cleared, SZ12 was not.

Doesn’t seem very conservative.  How did Germany manage to take Egypt G1?  Must be some lucky dice rolls.

Maybe conservative wasnt the right word, maybe more “precatious”.

SZ2 was the 2 subs and the Norwegian fighter, Egypt was everything he could with the bomber. That’s a 75% win.
But he didnt took SZ12 (luckily for him, UK didnt take the opportunity to take the Italian fleet), nor did he take the Destroyer right in front of the baltic.

Title:  Allies, make up your mind! 41
Date:  10/01/2009
Special Rules:  Tech (Only Japan unlocked 1, Super subs) + NO
Victor:  Axis, by concession (debated heavily by the allies, but they really didnt stood a chance anymore)
Game Length:  4,5 hours, 4 rounds.
Bias:  We all 4 are experienced A&A players, but the german and brit/rus player usually are not that good, me (Japan) being the only one who knew AA50 in & out, and USA being the mastermind of our play group, but also, unfamiliar with AA50.
Description: 
G1 was pretty conservative. Egypt was taken, Karelia wasn’t, SZ2 was cleared, SZ12 was not.
Rus did it’s retaliation thing (not much), J1 did what it should do, but England didn’t see the advantage it had over Italy, and took France. Bad mistake. Fleet was cleared right after. It’s purchase was even worse. An IC in both India and S-Africa. 
USA tried to battle the pacific, but was too indecisive, splitting forces in the pacific and europe theater.
The 3 turns following, it was Germany slowly pushing to Russia, Japan growing in strentgh and money, UK fiddling around, doing nothing in particular, except defending 3 IC’s…USA never made it to any main theatre.
The game ended because someone had to go, but at that time both Germany and Japan were making around the 60’s, Italy (Taken Brazil :) ) around 30, not an allied ship in the water, Russia surrounded by italiands, germans and japanese.
Sure, UK had 2 stacked IC’s (London was defended damn poorly, and Germany would take it the next turn, as it was bombed to -8 aswell), but all the units were way too far from the front.

Observations/Recommendations:  I think, in the 41’ sceanrio, the Allies shouldnt even try to take on Japan. They cant make it…and if they don’t…what difference does it make? Japan will still be too strong.
And the allies will have lost a lot of resources.

I think, that the best way for the allies is to go for operation Torch asap, and just perform a KIGF. Every other option just loses focus on the main theatre.
Russia can hold out pretty damn fine for a round or 4 by itself. If there’s no allied landing force ready to take on Germany by then…Russia is screwed.

I am pretty sure the auto-kill is considered to be an actual battle.
So it is just with other battles, only allowed in Combat Movement.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=13061.0
:wink:

@Cmdr:

Actually, once defending submarines are gone then defending destroyers are gone, you can damage battleships and then you can hit cruisers, assuming you survive that long, you probably wont.

Generally speaking, I have yet to be “terrified” of a submarine in AA50.  I’ve laughed, I’ve laughed so hard I cried, I giggled to the point of a guffaw at them, but I’ve not been terrified!

I’ll point out:

10,000 Submarines vs 1 Destroyer and 4,999 Bombers (almost same cost) should result with:

3,333 hits from the attacker
1 hit from the defender

Cost to the attacker: 8 IPC
Cost to the defender: 19,998 IPC

Still like your submarines?

Even though I agree with you Jen, you do have to take in consideration that a smart player would watch out for DD’s. (would that be a contradictio in terminis? “A smart player buying 10k subs…” )
If there would be no DD (because a smart one would take it out, or stay out of it’s range), you could attack 2500 AV’s, all loaded with fighters (5000).

Those 5k fighters are useless, and with your surprise kill you could get 3300 kills (subs hit at 2 right?). The vessels that you actually kill, don’t get to fight back.

More convenient is that those 5000 fighters will go down as well, as there is no ground underneath their feet…

Now thát could make a sub useful…
And with only 6 or 7 IPC, every 2 subs = 1 CV.

What Jennifer said: How do you get your transport past those surface ships?
You cant ignore them.

@Count_Zeppelin:

You focus too much on russia! I think the race to moscow strategy is totaly nuts. With germany only building tanks and inf in B1 the german fleet will be sunk and the landings in france and norway will start. The United Kingdom will start the strategic bombardment of berlin and the United States might join in. The german tanks will be needed to reconquer france every turn. The key to victory is a balanced strategy on both sides!

Exactly what I am thinking. Everyone seems to be looking for a non-KGF game in AA:50, and are looking for KJF etc…but nooone seems to wonder about a new goal for the Axis.

I mean, it used to be in AA:R and Classic: With Germany…RACE FOR MOSCOW!
But could it be that, in AA:50, instead of a KRF-game, it has changed into a KBF…or KUSAF first kinda game?

Maybe Germany shouldnt go for Russia, but for the UK, who cant survive with USa support, but the USA support is way too occpuied by Japan.

This man has just found out the KJF strat for AA:50.

I actually like what you are reading…and it terrifies me as an Axis player.

I mean, with both UK and USA going all out against Japan (all pacific buy’s for USA, Indian IC, etc), what do they loose?
3 turns in europe. 3 turns they would be otherwise use to play cat & mouse with germany, responding to their moves etc, without actually being effective.
In those 3 moves, as the Allied, you could also play immediate action against JApan.
Scaring, confusing the japan player, harassing/delaying him from 3 directions (North the russians, west (india the brits), and east (the usa).
That’s a lot to handle with as the japan player.
And on turn 4, you strike with all 3 allied players.

But what about russia? in those 3 turns? I hear you think.
Well, what’s the difference with other games? Moscow falls. Usually at G3, G4…maybe even G5 if you are up against a good russian player.
And at what point is tokyo going to fall? Ow yeah, at T3, 4 ;-)

Not saying this KJF strat is optimal, but I definitely like the sound of it :)

a44, even though I agree with it in theory 100%, but when I set it out at the board, I always tend to change again.

A couple thoughts that occur to me when actually looking at the situation:

- Without the transport in G2, you are short two extra guys that can attack then the more eastern territories.

That gives me 2 questions:
Do you just buy all tanks and bmb in G1 to compensate the lack of units that could otherwise reach the areas?
Do you attack Karelia in G1?

The only way to protect that transport after G1, is with added navy

What is the best naval buy? Etc…

That last I don’t need an answer to, but I am damn curious to everyone’s opinion on the first 2 q’s:

Do you just buy all tanks and bmb in G1 to compensate the lack of units that could otherwise reach the more eastern areas in G2?
Do you attack Karelia in G1?
Which sea zones do you attack in G1?

I am sorry, I am heading to my first actual AA:50 game in 5 days, and I am facing a hell of a russian player, so I’m rather nervous and am looking for the best G1 move ;-)