Posts made by wodan46

Builds
B1: 1 IC, 2 Bombers
B2: 1 Carrier, 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
B3: ???
A1: 1 Carrier, 1 Bomber, 2 Transports
A2: 4 Bombers
A3: 4 Bombers

The total cost for the air/sea/transport/IC force, including starting units, is about 347 IPCs
The total cost of the starting Japanese Fleet is about 207 IPCs, plus about 100 IPCs worth of units built on turns 1 through 3.

My analysis is that Japan could certainly disrupt aspects of their move (taking out the Russian Ground stack or the Indian Fleet), but doing so would leave them fatally vulnerable to other aspects(whichever they didn’t take out, the American Fleet, and the American Bombers).  More importantly, they won’t realize the full extent of what is happening until after J2, and any units built on J2 or J3 would be unable to reach the allied fleet anyway.  Until after J2, it simply looks like America is building up a Fleet, Britain is going for an IC in India, and Russia is being aggressive.  Unless Japan does everything right, they could easily be screwed.  Even if they do plan properly, the situation is going to be a dicey one.

@Fighter:

come on. what planet are you living on? japan start with a huge fleet. If US have 10 bombers in turn 3, they have used the vast majority of all their IPC up until this point om bombers, leaving little for fleet and not nearly close enough to be a serious treath to a japan player unless he is a monkey. Backup your far out comments with just a small amount of arguements on how to achieve this or keep em to yourself until you can.

At the end of Turn 3, in the East Indies/Borneo/New Guinea/Sea Zone 39, there will be 3 Carrier Groups, 1 Battleship, 2 Destroyers, and 4 Transports.  There will also be 6 Bombers in East Asia, 4 in Australia, and 4 in West US.  Is that clear enough for you?

@Funcioneta:

There is no chance India can resist after J3 agains a decent axis player, even killing China J1. Any axis players should attack Egypt with 6 units

Doing so requires using the Bomber, which means that you will either have to let the Battleship/Transport pair live, or let the Cruiser/Destroyer pair live.  The first will allow them to launch an early D-Day and build a fleet quickly.  The second will allow them to probably wipe out the Italian Fleet nice and early.

@Funcioneta:

at least clearing it in most of cases, probably taking it with some tank, so all UK has to defend India is:

• 2 inf from trj
• 3 inf, art, aa gun form ind
• inf from bur
• 3 guys built round 2

My units available to defend India for J3 could be as many as 9 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 4 Bombers, and an AA, with a Battleship and a Carrier Group in the waters, plus the Burma Infantry and the Egypt Tank if they survived turn 1.  So total is more like 15 units, plus a nasty fleet off the coast that you need to use those Fighters on.  Oh, and keep in mind, anything sent to attack the India Sea Zone is going to be in range of the US air force and possibly navy.

@Funcioneta:

Japan starts with 5 trannies and it’s pretty probable they can send at least 4 loaded to India round 3 (8 units) plus a swarm of starting figs. Let’s say about 15-16 units and any bombardment shots they can join. India lost (and the IC if UK were so fool of building it). The only chance are soviet units, but they are too busy against western axis. I can wait another turn to more jap units arrive (units saved because you killed the chineses round 1) if I manage soviets send some european units to Japan instead Germany

If you wait another turn, I will have taken French Indochina, Manchuria, Kiangsu, Philipines, East Indies, Borneo, and the Caroline Islands.  Taking an IC in India, were it even possible, would no longer be of limited utility, given that you are being overrun.

@Subotai:

Let’s say Japan builds 2 CV and one fighter during turn 1-3, and consolidates in Japan sz. How big navy/air force are you gonna use to kill the Japanese fleet?

I’ve developed a new KJF plan.  2 CV and a Fighter are not even close to enough.  By the end of Turn 3, the Allies have a large fleet in Indonesia, 10 Bombers on standby in various locales, and have dropped Japan’s economy by somewhere between 16-25 while giving the Allies a needed infusion.  On Turn 4, the Japanese Fleet will be gone, and Japan  possibly SBRed.  At this point, Japan is pretty much a non-player, and while capturing Japan may be hard, at this point you hardly need to.  While Germany might take Russia and Italy might take Africa/Middle East, they can’t even match the Allies in income, let alone hope to keep what they have and somehow grab VCs in the Pacific.

Why are allies at such a disadvantage.  Sure, Japan’s taken all the island stuff, but look what happened to their fleet:

Old Japan Fleet: 3 Carriers, 9 Fighters, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 5 Transports
New Japan Fleet: 2 Carriers, 7 Fighters, 2 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport, 1 Bomber, 1 Sub
So they got a Battleship, a Bomber, and a Sub, at the price of 1 Carrier, 2 Fighters, and 4 Transports

Worse, enemy fleets have become much nastier:
Old British Pacific Fleet: 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports
New British Pacific Fleet: 1 Carrier, 2 Fighters, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport

Old American Pacific Fleet: 1 Carrier, 1 Fighter, 2 Destroyer, 1 Battleship, 2 Transports
New American Pacific Fleet: 1 Carriers, 3 Fighters, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Sub, 1 Transport, 2 Bombers

Likely outcome after J1
Japan Fleet: 2 Carriers, 6 Fighters, 2 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport, 1 Bomber
British Pacific Fleet: 1 Fighter
American Pacific Fleet: 2 Fighters, 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Sub, 1 Transport, 2 Bombers

Germany and Italy can’t really threaten Egypt at all, while Japan can’t threaten India seriously unless they sacrifice China and possibly their chances of winning at sea.

Britain should simply build an IC in Egypt and India, reinforce them, and start pummeling Italy with help from America.

@packrat76:

wodan would you rather navel movement or battleships with aa guns? i think i would rather a AA gun to at least knock downa  couple planes

Are you honestly asking this?  You are saying that giving a situational power to a single expensive unit, that some argue should have that power by default, is more powerful than a tech which gives a significant power boost to your entire fleet?  Mobile Fleets allows your ships to move 50% faster, or to retreat after attacking.

Also, why are you even associating naval movement with AA guns?  I was giving one tech to Battleships and one tech to Navies in general, so it wasn’t as if the Mobile Fleet tech was even holding the Battleship AA slot.  Not to mention that Capital Ships is much better than Battleship AA most of the time.

Wow, I got a lot of negative karma.  I wonder, for what?  Suggesting ideas that were self-acknowledged to be fringe, to see if they could be developed into something effective?

@Cmdr:

Gunna have to agree, if your opponent has HB and or JF/LRA then you just build Radar Equipped AA Guns and Improved Manufacturing and negate most of their abilities.

That’s the beautiful thing about AA50, all the techs are designed to reduce the effectiveness of the other techs!

Except that the odds of you getting the right defensive tech is low, given that Radar and Improved Manufacturing are in different branches.  Furthermore, neither of those techs helps Navies at all, or ground units much, all it does is protect against SBRs.

@alwayswin:

If you really want to control the islands then you have to control the Tokyo SZ. Sending small fleets with one transport far away from home won’t last. Once you gain control of their main production SZ you can send all the transports you want to take back the islands.

Once you control the main production sea zone…  How precisely do you control the Sea Zone around the enemy’s IC, that is two turns away from your IC, when the opponent has a larger starting fleet and better income than you do?

The reason why the Solomon Islands tactic might work is because it is one turn away from the West US IC and two turns away from the Japan IC, and it is one turn away from East Indies/Borneo/Philipines, while those are two turns away from the Japan IC as well.

Here are my revised versions of the two replacement Naval Techs.

Mobile Fleets: Your ships may move 1 during the non-combat phase in addition to their regular movement/attack.
Capital Ships: Undamaged Battleships now roll two dice in Naval Battles.  Cruisers Attack and Defend on 4s.

@HannibalSW:

Need to think about the capitol ship thing, when do they get two attacks?  Attacking, Defending and Shore bombardment?  If so does it always attack on a 4 on all those instances? Do you get two shore shots for one transport offload or do you need two for the extra shot?  HB’s attack on a 4 twice but definitely do not defend on a 4 and they don’t get shore bombardment.  Just some stuff to consider about what house rules you are making.

Attack and Defense, not for Bombardment.  While Bombers only get the 4+4 on attack, they also cost 12, move 6, may participate in land battles, and can retreat from the frontline.  Battleships cost 20, move 2, may not participate in land battles for more than one, and are left exposed on the frontline when they attack.  Heavy Bombers is still better than Capital Ships.

Hmmm.

A1: Build 1 Carrier, 2 Transports, 1 Bomber, move fleets to Sea Zones 56 and 20
A2: Build 4 Bombers, move Fleet to Sea Zone 46, along with Australians.  Land Bombers in Austr

At end of A2, your forces are as follows:
Solomon Islands: 2 Carriers, 4 Fighters, 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports, 4 Infantry
Australia: 1 Transport, 1 Destroyer, 3 Bombers, 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Western US: 4 Bombers
Sea Zone 44: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport, 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery (or they can go for Africa if they wish)

At this point, you have a solid force in Solomon Islands, capable of threatening Japanese holdings heavily, and a flight of Bombers that will wreck the Japanese fleet if they attack you at Solomons, as well as punishing unwary transports.

Not to mention, if they built an IC in East Indies J2, you have a pretty good chance of taking it, especially if you landed Bombers in Australia, though in that case, the British Transport might want to stay home so that the full 4 Australian units are there to guard the aircraft.

@Subotai:

if you don’t have triplea then maybe play by forum could do it

I do have TripleA.  I simply don’t know how to use it to play anything other than in real time in the lobby, which isn’t possible with the updated version of AA50.

@Subotai:

Even though I didn’t play many (enough) AA50 games yet, I’d be happy to try and disprove some theories about good strats which seems far out.

I can host TripleA, we could play the last unstable version, although its not 100% AA50 yet, its not much thats missing.

Don’t know how to do that kind of stuff.

Also, for the last time, I’m experimenting, and trying to analyze what strategies are possible, rather than sticking to the same strategies over and over.  I offer an exotic strategy, take feedback, and alter the strategy to see if its possible to make a version that is feasible.

Improved Shipyards is replaced with Mobile Fleet: Carriers, Cruisers, and Subs have 3 Movement, and may move during noncombat even if they participated in a battle.
Super Subs is replaced with Capital Ships: Battleships roll 2 Dice

@Fighter:

stockpile infantery and move an aa gun around with all major axis forces and then lets see how long your planes can handle trading a least 10 ipc/unit with 3-5 for axis units. strategy flawed and failed imho unless modified to include fodder units.

Which it already has.  Also, if Germany builds AAs, Russia simply captures them if they are guarding a small stack of units, and on a large stack of units, the AA really isn’t all too important given that its probably a suicide mission anyways.  Not to mention that every AA Germany builds is one less Tank or pair of Infantry for it to throw at Russia.

Also, why are you spouting this nonsense about trading at least 10 ipc a unit with 3-5 for Axis units?  First off, Britain is doing this in addition to ground attacks by Russia and invasions by America, a combined attack that Germany/Italy can ill afford.  Second, a German Infantry in Belorussia is significantly less replaceable than a British Fighter, due to the cost in momentum.  Third, given that Britain would otherwise have to build a large navy and transport fleet, they are going to be forced to be trading 10 IPCs for every 3-5 IPCs they destroy anyways, if not more.

That last part is the vital concept.  I realized that no matter what Britain and America, the need to cross an ocean guarded by large air forces means that they can never exchange on even terms with the Axis, and that in the case of Britain, it is reasonable to build solely Air Units, which are less vulnerable to counterattack than the fragile fleets, and much more mobile besides.

If Britain builds a fleet, Germany can simply kill it with the Luftwaffe, which can then quickly return to dealing with Russia.  However, if Britain builds Air units only, there really isn’t anything Germany can do to stop them from running around willy nilly on the eastern front.

I’d agree that the techs for Air units are overpowered, while Sea techs are underpowered.  Combined that the increased size of the board and lowered cost of Bombers, and you have Air units excelling.

Lets compare
Air: Gets Heavy Bombers(Best Tech in the Game), Paratroopers(Powerful and Abusive), Long Range Aircraft(Powerful and Abusive), Jet Fighters(Powerful, but reasonable).
Sea: Gets Improved Shipyards(Ships cost 15-20% less, which won’t pay itself off until you buy 60 or so IPCs worth of Ships, and doesn’t boost existing Air), and Super Subs(which is useful only if you are able to use Subs).

Japan on the first turn should normally take East Indies(4), Borneo(4), Philipines(2), Kwantung(1), and around 3 more land territories, for a net gain of 14 IPCs.  If they are playing with NOs on (which while optional, is almost always used), then they receive an additional 10 IPCs, for a total gain of 24 IPCs, rising their total to 41 income.

Tech: Increased Factory Production
Nation: Britain
Use: Never have to build transports and naval units, you can spend it all on nice meaty ground units, with a couple Bombers to keep Germany on its toes.

If US goes for Italy/Germany, they should use Subs near exclusively for the Pacific.  They allow them to threaten the enemy fleet with a much weaker fleet and not get wiped out immediately.