Posts made by WILD BILL

Just to be clear I wasn’t advocating that art fire two shots in the first round of battle like in AA1914. Only that all defending art roll a first strike kill shot at “2” in the opening round and the enemy removes a ground unit for each hit immediately that won’t return fire. Then all remaining units fire in the normal part of round one, but art having already fired wouldn’t participate (kinda like how a sub gets a first strike in a sea battle if the other side doesn’t have a destroyer, but subs don’t get to fire twice in the opening round). I think that if you allowed art (or AA gun) to fire twice in the first round you would probably need to raise the price.

No other unit gets to fire twice in any one round of battle in G40 , so I wouldn’t want to make that big of a leap. I have considered to allow art def against an amphib gets+1 in the first round though that would give them a kill shot at “3” in the opening round (instead of “2”) when defending a coastal territory from the sea (thinking about also allowing this +1 bonus when def a Victory City, or IC too but not yet).

Those are all great observations.

My biggest pet peeve is that the edges of the map don’t line up. Re-do the edges so North America and all the sz’s line up. I was disappointed when they did 2nd edition and didn’t fix that (lazy IMO). I would have bought 2nd edition if they would have fixed the America’s I think they really lost out on extra sales.

Have the Suez pass though Egypt (like Panama Canal and Turkish Straights are controlled by one territory) instead of between Egypt and TJ (although the Suez was probably purposely placed between two territories so the axis have a chance to close the gateway to the Eastern Med w/o taking Egypt).

Air & Naval bases printed on the map. Maybe even have a naval base for a territory linked to one particular sz instead of to all adjacent sz’s (some territories would start with multiple NB’s).

YG the following would require rule changes (house rules I guess) but if you are talking about redesigning the G40 map (maybe on your own or with help) these would be awesome additions IMO:

Rail lines printed on the map that allow some limited movement in NCM (susceptible to SBR)

To add to Bravehart:
Convoy zones (convoy/lend lease routes)

I would not only like to be able to see convoy zones better, I would also like to see convoy’s redone (new zones/rules). Need some allied convoy “routes” added to the Atlantic and Med, and maybe some in the Pac as well. Add some open waters convoy zones in the mid Atlantic between Canada and UK that can be attacked (say 3 IPCs for sz 107, & 108). Also other convoy routes that go from UK-Gib-Malta-Egypt-Persia-India (and around the horn Gib-S Africa-Egypt) that can be attacked for like 2 IPCs each sz (instead of just a handful of sz’s along those routes). The way convoys are done especially in Europe (easy to defend next to IC and/or air bases) are lacking in ability for the axis to put up any real sub warfare aspect. Subs need to be spread out to force the allies to build destroyers, not concentrated in one or two sz’s so they can be easily killed.

A trade off of sz109 convoy zone  (8 IPCs of raiding that rarely gets raided) for a convoy route that includes sz106, 107, 108, and 109 for 3 IPC each would make the Atlantic so much more fun IMO. I would like to credit Oztea because back in the day I believe he fought very hard for Mid Atlantic convoy zones in the Alpha project that just didn’t happen. It’s a little fuzzy but I think he wanted Larry to place UK roundels in certain sz’s (107 & 108 I think) that could also be raided.

Could have convoy/lend lease routes that pass through UK or Iceland on the way to Russia that the Germans can attack in the Atlantic (maybe even other lend lease “routes” to Russia that pass through Persia and and Amur).

To aequitas:
Although I think there should be a 2 ipc territory east of Moscow to represent Russian industry moving east (maybe even a contingency rule), I think you would just be giving the Japanese a gift if you made Buryatia a 2 IPC territory (would more of a benefit to Japan if they took or built a minor IC there) . A Siberian Rail would be helpful though to get units back-n forth out there, but even that could be a gift to Japan if they were allowed to also rail as they took those territories. Would probably need a sabotage or scorched earth rule that would destroy the Siberian Rail as the Russians lost those territories (maybe allow the Japanese to repair them for 2 IPCs each territory?).

@SS:

This is in my 39 game  The FEC and Anzac attack on same turn.  The U.K. Europe attacks same time with Canada . All 4 have own income They also can all attack at same time.

So you basically have one power with 4 econs. The UK empire fights together, but each faction has its own economy and purchases its own units.

I have a couple concerns:

1. Does the London Econ have enough to hold off a sea lion
2. Is the Pac side overpowering with the combined effort of FEC and Anz

Baron, nice line up w/units. Most are in line with what I’m trying to develop. Not sure if I’m going to change units cost on planes but if there is too much attrition to air and navy I will probably lower some stuff as well.

Back to first strike art defending against an amphib (first round of battle). How do you handle it when a territory is attacked by land and sea. How do you assign the art that are in the defending territory. Do you allow only some art to roll first strike, maybe equal to the number of amphib units, and the rest roll normal?

PS: Do you think it would be over powering for all defending art to fire a first strike shot in the 1st round of battle. My original thought was all art should get a pre-empt shot in the 1st round, but I decided to test the waters on amphib defense first. I agree w/Narvic that the mechanics pretty much force you to back down and picket rather then set up to defend a territory (or region). Not sure if the Russians would attempt to put up more of a fight at the front lines or would they just retreat their art for the final assault on Moscow.

Thanks Baron Munchhausen, I wish I had seen that thread because there are so many similarities (wish I would have been a part of it). It is spot on for how I view an amphib should be, and then it even gets into a Special Forces Unit (that was awesome).

For amphibs def art getting a pre-empt strike in the first round (same time you fire AA gun), and attacking inf/mech not getting the art pairing boost in the first round would make the landings much more difficult. I agree that theoretically art and tanks should also be held out of the first round too, but I don’t want to go over board.

As for AA guns I’m looking at general house rule where AA guns fire 2 shots in the first round, and 1 shot every round after (probably still keeping them pre-empt). I just don’t think they should be a blow the wad and take one for the team type of unit. AA should be allowed to continue to roll at air craft instead of having no use so you take it as a hit (it would still be able to take a hit if the owner wants).

In the same breath I’m also looking at tac bmrs being able to target navy or ground when they roll “1”. So it would be possible to take out an AA gun (or tank, art, damaged BB etc….) among other changes.

@ShadowHAwk:

@simon33:

So that means if neither side has a DD but both have subs, the sneak attack is effectively negated so long as the defender takes the casualties on the subs which will sneak attack before being removed, to continue the explanation.

Well technically yes the sneak attack wont do that much since the subs would fire back anyway.
Then again if the defender only has subs he would be better of just submerging.

Agreed if he only has subs, but the defender may want to keep his sub(s) in the battle as fodder if he has  higher valued warships in the battle. Although his sub only defends at “1” it will take a hit as it gets a shot off, it would be situational.

I like to go for Malaya J2 for the reason you posted (Anz NO), plus that is the direction I want to go anyway to pressure India. So on J2 I will have fleet at Malaya, Caroline’s, and probably Philippines. All these are in striking distance to Queensland sz54. Not saying I would hit it, because I’m more interested in the money islands J3, but the threat is real and might keep the Anz building ground and not ships.

I also drop an IC on FIC J2 (sometimes Kwangtung too) so I can get a resurgence into China, threaten India, or for fleet later if I need to.

I’m thinking about a house rule that allows art defending a coast line in an amphib to fire a first strike kill shot on the first round of battle (instead of with the other def units in the normal battle). This would be a step before the normal battle begins and all defending art would roll, and casualties are immediately removed (don’t fire back). Then the normal battle would commence, and the attacker would roll, then the rest of the defenders units roll as normal. Round 2 would be normal etc….

I’m also thinking about disallowing combined arms boost that art gives to inf & mech for the attacker in the first round of battle in an amphib. Art would still fire as normal, but all inf & mech would attack at “1” in the first round of battle in an amphib. Round 2 would go back to normal, inf/mech would get the art pairing boost… probably looking at adding a Marine unit that would be better for attacking the coast.

Reason being is that I don’t like how the axis rarely defend the coast, they generally set up a counter attack inland instead because of the games mechanics. If it was harder to take the coast in an amphib you might see more of an Atlantic Wall IMO. �

@Teflon2017:

Wild Bill,

One clarification on the Sneak Attack scenario.  If the attacking force in a sea battle has more than just subs, the defending non-DD warships don’t get to shoot back until the other attacking warships have fired first, correct?

V/r,
Tef

I’m assuming “the defending non-dd warships” simply means the enemy has no dd in his fleet (otherwise there would be no sneak attack w/subs).

So the short answer is yes your other attacking units would fire before the defenders units once the general sea battle begins. Only eligible subs fire in the sneak attack step (see note below when both sides have eligible subs).

If there is no dd in the defending fleet your sub(s) would fire their kill shot in the special sneak attack step, and the defender chooses casualty(s). Those casualties are immediately removed (can’t return fire). Keep in mind that capital ships take 2 hits (damaged capital ships would get to fire in the general combat part of the sea battle). Plus remember that subs can’t hit planes.

After the sneak attack step is done, the general combat step of the sea battle starts. All your other ships/planes would fire, and def chooses his casualties (which get to return fire). Then the defender fires, and casualties from both sides are removed.

Then you continue round to 2 of the battle….which could also include a sneak attack step

*Note if the defender also has a sub eligible for sneak attack (you don’t have a dd either), his sub(s) would also fire in the sneak attack step (or submerge in which case it does not fire). Sneak attack subs from both sides are considered to fire simultaneously. So after you fire, the defender holds his casualties from your sub hits until his sub gets a chance to fire. Then hits from both sides are removed from play (don’t return fire). This would allow him to get his sneak attack shot off, and take a hit on his sub.

Attacking subs fire at “2”, defending subs fire at “1”

@Teflon2017:

Wild Bill,

Thanks again.  Copy on the SZ 109 attack.  Reassessing.

Definitely have to send 1x U-boat at the CA in SZ91 and one at the CA in SZ 101.  If I understand sneak attack correctly, I get to shoot twice at those cruisers before they can counter-attack.  First shot is the sneak attack (to which they don’t get to shoot back) and second shot is Std attack (could you briefly confirm I got this right?).

Here’s how I’ve laid out the NORLANT G1 ASB for GM Surface Navy and Luftwaffe:

U-Boats Attack (1ea):

• SZ101; SZ91; SZ106; SZ110 SZ111

ASB SZ111 (one round of combat):

• 1x BB; 1x FB (Stuka); 1x Ftr

ASB SZ110:

• 2x Bs (Condor); 3x Ftrs; 2x FBs

What do you think?

Tef

Ok sneak attack doesn’t give you 2 shots

You would get a sneak attack anytime the enemy doesn’t have a dd in the battle.  Both attacking (roll of 2) and defending (roll of 1) subs get this option (or can submerge) when the other side doesn’t have a destroyer. So in the sz91 and sz101 battles you fire one shot (I call it a kill shot) and if you hit they are sunk and don’t fire back (would also kill US tpt in 101 under defenseless tpt rule once the cruiser is sunk). If you miss they get to return fire, and your sub would be killed if they hit.

Round 2 of battle:
If neither of you hit then you have two options. You can submerge (prob not), or continue the battle. Same thing happens round two, you fire a kill shot, and if you hit they are sunk and don’t return fire. If you miss they get to return fire……etc

Just to point out subs (attacking or defending) get a kill shot anytime the other side doesn’t have a dd in the battle. Say the defender starts out with one dd in the first round of battle, but takes it as a casualty. The next round any sub(s) you have remaining would get a sneak attack kill shot (or could submerge). It can get interesting in round 2-3 of a sea battle when the defender has to choose causalities between expensive ships and a destroyer when you still have a sub in the battle (def chooses casualties first).

Need to look at German sub set-up because I don’t think you can use a sub to hit sz110 if you attack both UK sz91 and the US in sz101 with a sub (there is usually a trade off). I believe you will end up with 2 subs in the sz111 battle unless you are feeling lucky and send in a lone sub into sz109 (you would basically get one shot to kill his dd because of probable scramble as discussed earlier).

Short answer is no your carriers can’t pull double duty. All your planes must have eligible landing spots when you set-up your combat moves.

Attacking sz109 w/sub and one ftr will get both of your units killed because he will scramble 3-4 ftrs. You will have one round of combat and may not kill the UK dd. If he scrambles and kills your sub and ftr, even if you did kill his dd, his tpt lives (you risk 16 IPCs to kill an 8 IPC dd).

The roll one round of battle and retreat option w/German BB on sz111 (Scotland) has become a favorite around here, but it doesn’t always work. You need to account for the UK one ftr scramble, but not hit it too hard winning the battle and stranding your BB in sz111 (this is the one time you are praying that all your dice don’t hit lol).

You can generally still kill the Brit BB (should be damaged) on G2 because for some unknown reason there isn’t a naval base on Scotland (hello Scapaflow?). So on UK1 the UK can’t repair the damaged BB, and it can only move 2 spaces. It will generally go to sz109 (for def scramble) or Iceland. In a rare case the UK might use it to attack your sz112 fleet (knowing you can scramble) depending on what you bought G1 (any navy).

Need to point out though that if there was a J1 attack and the US is in the war the allies can make Iceland a fairly safe place for the UK damaged BB. They can put a rainbow air force on Iceland and the US cruiser and what ever navy the UK has can join making it unlikely that the Germans hit it.

As a side note (as Germany) when you know there is going to be a J1 attack you might consider using one of your German subs to hit the US sz101 on G1. They have no DD (can’t scramble), so you have a good chance as any to kill the cruiser and tpt (I think that Shadowhawk brought this to my attention in the Pearl thread).

I have followed YG’s threads for making a new Commonwealth power (Canada and Anz). I have also followed his splintering off the UK PAC as its own power know as the South Eastern Asian Command (SEAC).

In both these scenarios I feel that UK Europe gets neutered some. It either loses income due to a new power being added (re-distributed income), or in case of making UK PAC (SEAC) a separate power UK loses the ability to combine attack power from UK Euro/PAC units.

These are all part of the British empire, but the creators decided (rightfully so) that they needed to have the Brits econ split-up (too powerful if they plant all their eggs in one basket) They also created the Anz power with separate units so you couldn’t do combined attacks.

I’m looking at a tweener power that gets it own income, has its own goals (NO’S) but can combine resources with either UK Europe or Anz for attacks (cooperative effort). I realize this is not the norm for how a power operates, and it is a pretty big change.

I’m considering playing UK Pac (FEC) as their own mini power who’s turn is split between the UK and Anz tuns. This will allow some limited cooperation among the Commonwealth.

UK Pac still has their own econ, and UK Europe and UK PAC territories are still split on the Euro/Pac maps. I have moved Anz’s turn to be right after UK’s turn so it will be easier to set-up battles etc…

I’m using UK lime green units from my Revised game, and have painted a couple mech and cruisers to match to complete the set (use whatever you have available).

For the most part the FEC will take their turn with the UK as they have always done. You have the option of holding back some FEC units (can’t move on UK’s turn) to take their turn with the Anz. That way you can have FEC units participate in attacks with either UK or Anz (not both).

This is just a theory, but I have set it up and have taken the first turn (playing solo).

What do you think?

LMFAO

@ShadowHAwk:

@Charles:

Landing in Soctland turn 3 is risky.  That’s 12 units (correct?) Versus a UK force of 12 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 mech., and 3 fighters approximately.  Probably not safe.

Actualy those odds are great for germany, UK attacks and moves all their forces off london, they can build like what 10 units there ( less after strat bombing )
Round 4 you just attack london with 12 units + air against those few units you easy get it.

Germany will not win schotland but will do major damage ( you could even move 1 AA gun there you might hit a plane as well )

Yea its all about a fairly weak UK counter attack (mostly inf) that will chew up UK inf that when dead don’t def London next turn. Maybe UK saw the possibility of the Scotland 2-step and built some art on UK1, but they will still lose some units.

As far as the AB on Holland G1 I would attempt a hit and run on sz111 with the “Bismark” and retreat it back to sz 112. Purchasing an AB for Holland is a one time benefit unless it also keeps your navy safe after the attack on London as well (is US in the war, and are they in position).  I would rather purchase a dd (or carrier) G1 so I won’t tie up planes covering a possible UK scramble forcing a sea battle when I amphib London.

Although it sounds good, I’m not sure you can pull off a Scotland 2-step and Barbarossa right after. That seems like a pretty lofty goal IMO (i think the German army will stall in Russia). Taking Gib on G5 may not be possible, because by then the US will be in the war. The US may very well already have their navy in sz91, and ground units on Gib US4, or be in position to attack your German navy/army on US5. Depends on what the allies do, but if they smell Sea Lion there is a good chance the US will be bulked up on the Euro side.

Good advice Chuck, building some art in your forward ICs can help with that fighting withdraw strat. If it isn’t safe to stay in those forward bases back out and set-up counter attacks so the Germans can’t build in them for a turn…

Get some UK ftrs to Moscow before the Germans get there, it takes a couple turns so you need to plan early. Slide some UK ftrs to Scotland, and from there they can fly to Archangel or Nenetsia then on to Moscow. Same from Egypt/India funnel ftrs up through the middle east then to Moscow. This will at the least delay the assault on Moscow and allow you to build more Russian units. It is up to UK if their ftrs stay till the end to cause max damage to the German force or not.

The thing about an IC in Romania is that you will use it for the first few German turns only. Yes it will help you somewhat to set up your Barbarossa, (or you could do some Caspian sea thing), but you can get similar results by just building units in Germany w/o spending the IPCs on an IC (spending more on units). Once you push into Russian territory you will use the Russian ICs, basically rendering an IC in Romania obsolete by the 4th-5th turn. Plus an IC built in Romania G1 (especially a major) is like the Brits breaking an intelligence code and they know exactly what you are doing (good bye Italian navy, and hello Egyptian IC).

If I’m going to spend IPCs on an IC I would wait until I have Western Ukraine (it should fall quickly), that way any units I build in W Ukraine and Ukraine could be with-in striking distance of Moscow.  You don’t need more units to push into Russia, but you need more units to finish them off. That way if the allies fly a bunch of ftrs into Moscow you can build more units at the front, Romania isn’t going to help you in the later stages of your Moscow campaign. The only possible help a Romanian IC will give you later is if the allies try to come up though the Balkans mid game.

If you build a major in Romainia (spend 30 IPCs) on G1, then build the 10 art G2 for an additional 40 IPCs (70 IPC invested) you are ready to invade Russia on G3 (Besserarabia, or E Poland).

If you don’t spend that 30 IPCs on major IC and just build 10 art in Germany G1 (40 IPCs invested), they move to Poland G2, and on G3 those art are still able to invade Russia (E Poland) G3.

Both have similar results, but there is much you can do with the 30 IPCs saved, like build mech/tanks for Germany G2 in Berlin to also hit E Poland on G3.

I think dropping an IC (minor or major) on Romania teligrahs your intentions too much. This was a popular thing to do before the Ukraine minor IC was added to the game though. Now it is much better for the Germans to just move in and take that Russian IC in the south because the units you build there are closer to the front. If you want to build an IC I suggest you wait until you get on Russian soil to do so.