Posts made by WILD BILL

Generally speaking powers defend together. However in G40 there are powers that start off neutral (Russia and USA) or not at war with each other (like Japan and UK/France). You could have a case at sea when you attack a sz with units from multiple powers, and can ignore the units that belong to a power that you aren’t yet at war with.

With the Russian player buying a destroyer and carrier in the Baltic on the first turn you have already won the game IMO so it doesn’t matter what strat you do lol (24 Russian IPCs on ships instead of troops :?). Buy a couple subs for the Baltic to reduce your losses when you air sweep that shiny new Russian carrier  :evil:

Taking out that Russian fleet w/Russian air on it will be a huge bonus  :-D

Would be more likely that the US would attempt to take one of those Japanese held territories w/ic built by Japan.

Yea it seems balanced mode would sink this strat

Yes if the Americans take FIC from the Japanese they can build a minor IC on it and use it (as long as the French capital is under axis control).

It would be the same if the US took back a UK territory (say Malaya or Kwangtung) from the Japanese and India was under Japanese (axis) control. The US would be able to build a minor there as well, and use it until India was liberated.

On a side note the US would also be able to take any of the Dutch Pac territory/islands from the Japanese and collect income from them by special rule (Dutch capital in exile), but you can’t build an IC on an island.

@taamvan:

The take away is that you as Japan do not under any circumstances want to directly attack Mongolian territory, ever.

That leaves you with 2 choices;

1. wait for Russia to attack you, if ever, or hide behind a beneficial peace OR
2. attack Russian territory (or Chinese territory occupied by Russians) adjacent to Mongolia, activating Mongolia, let Russia have a turn, then start taking out those no-revenue territories starting on the next turn.

One other alternative might be
1b) attack China and Russia, but never attacking even a single Russian unit in any land territory adjacent to Mongolia or face 6 new russians

Japan is allowed to attack Chinese territories that are adjacent to Mongolia that have Russian units in them w/o triggering the Mongols. It is original Russian territories when attacked that turn the Mongolians into Russians.

I agree that if you attack Mongolia before you invade one of the Russian trigger territories all the strict neutrals become pro allied including Mongolia. However the Mongols don’t immediately turn Russian they would need to be activated like any other neutral by the allies (Russia).

You would also flip all the true neutrals if Japan attacked a Russian trigger territory and Mongolia in the same turn. So if you don’t want to flip all the true neutrals you would break the NAP on one turn (attack a Russian trigger territory), then go after the Mongols on your next turn (it’s helpful to have some mech in place w/air power to track down the Mongolians).

@simon33:

@WILD:

If I don’t do Taronto,

I think that is rather like coming up with a strategy for getting out of a straight jacket. Don’t get into one in the first place!

LOL, sometimes you don’t get a choice, they just show up and take you away to the funny farm where life is wonderful all the time……or you just get sick of the same old dance.

If I don’t do Taronto, then my philosophy would be to give Italy enough rope to hang itself. If the Italian navy leaves the comforts of their home port (air base) in the first turn UK can generally hit it with the RAF and sink it (making Egypt safe).

@GermanEmpire:

My first German build was a complex on Romania, some subs and a tank. The complex was so I could build a little navy presence in the Turkish strait so once I take Turkey I could relieve some pressure on the Italians.  The U.K reacted by building a complex on Egypt and stacking there.  The Italians were great right off the bat as I placed a german fighter on Southern Italy and when the British did the Taranto raid they failed and Italy had the Mediterranean to themselves.

Yeah the U.S. did spend a lot of money in the Pacific the first four rounds and than started building transports and shipping men in the Europe. Although they are starting to build a naval presence in the pacific again after getting crushed the first time I attacked them.

Also, I did use the Germans to attack Turkey on turn 3, as soon as I did this though, Russia started stacking in the Caucasus.

Ok so your game went a little smoother, but if you had faked a Sea lion (added a carrier to the Baltic fleet) instead of building the Romanian IC then the UK would have had to buy units for London instead of minor for Egypt (exactly what I would have done in that situation as UK). You were showing Barbarossa not Sea Lion giving them some breathing room IMO. I think I would have waited to build a minor w/Germany, maybe even waited to plop it down on Turkey (lots of possibilities).

O yea, did the Japanese hit and run the Hawaiian fleet J1?

@Marshmallow:

@WILD:

Arthur Bomber Harris, was your opponent aware of your plan to use this strat. A UK1 Pac attack on Japan is pretty rare. Did the UK do a Taronto (doesn’t sound like it because Italy was in good shape).

If the Japanese transports are north on J1 and not at a naval base, they are no risk to India til J4 anyway. ANZAC and UK Pacific can clean up on the money islands and NOs til Japan can contest them. It sounds to me like his opponent made the strategically sound decision to start collecting a lot of money if that was the case – it costs UK nothing to declare war if Japan cannot retaliate by taking away UK territory.

However, I’m speculating – perhaps his opponent was aware of the plan…

Marsh

Exactly my point, that’s why I was asking for more info. Did the opponent know the plan, and if he did this test game didn’t offer much. The UK1 attack on the Japanese, and what looks like no Taronto raid seem to be pretty rare IMO. Both of these UK moves would directly have an effect on this Afrikorps strat.

On the Pac side if you know that they are going to slow boat it (keep the US out until they DOW end of US3) then yea you attack early with the UK because it has no effect on the US war status anyway. If he didn’t know the overall plan then as the Japanese you need to do a much better job of selling a J2 attack (then a J3 attack). As you said Marsh, if the Japanese navy/tpts are out of position to threaten the UK/Anz, then it could be coincidental that the UK was aggressive. You need to transport units down to Kwangsi to threaten the DEI etc…(can use them to retake Yunnan). You need to keep pressure on the UK, and make sure that if they are aggressive that you can make them pay at Burma etc… (while keeping your ground units from being easy targets).

On the Euro side if you know the plan then you probably want to preserve your UK assets for counter attacks/def. Plus you know it will be awhile before the US can bail you out. England is a possible alternate target, so you have to defend the Island Kingdom. Forgoing a Taronto Raid helps with both of these issues, and kinda works directly against this AK strat. It keeps most of the RAF at home, and the Med fleet stays alive. Now it is possible that if he followed a heavy G1 naval build (carrier, dd, tpt) that the UK player just buckled down. So again as the axis you want to threaten England, but you also want the UK Med fleet sunk so it can’t be used later (need to walk a fine line on G1).

Arthur Bomber Harris, was your opponent aware of your plan to use this strat. A UK1 Pac attack on Japan is pretty rare. Did the UK do a Taronto (doesn’t sound like it because Italy was in good shape).

Wow, that’s pretty deep Marc, you just sucked all the fun out of it lol.

Anyway, I think AK has an interesting strategy, and he is using both the existing units and purchases to achieve it. He did say it was an untested theory that he was working through. He may have named it Afrikorps, but in actuality it is more of an Axis neutral crush. Taking Turkey will allow him to use his axis mechanized force to pressure/capture the Middle East, Egypt and Southern Russia($$$).

Building up the German fleet on G1 is a common tool used to get the UK to buy mostly ground units on the first turn. I have mixed feelings about sailing it into the Med though. The Baltic fleet in conjunction with other resources can force the Russian to evacuate Leningrad, and help to def/counter attack Norway if needed. I do however like the Germans taking Gib to help get the Italian NO, and it would be interesting to use that fleet to shuffle inf through the Black Sea.

I think the biggest flaw is under estimating what the UK can/will do in the first few turns, and over estimating what Italy can achieve on It1/It2. For starters you have the Italians attacking Greece with 5 inf, 1 art, 1 tank and a couple ftrs (using 2 tpts). That can only happen if the UK didn’t do Taronto (attack sz97). As discussed the UK often does Taronto and takes out sz96 as well. This move will end up with the UK fleet at the bottom of the Med later, but causes logistical problems for Italy. On IT1 the English will occupy sz97 with remainder of the Med fleet, and possibly a cruiser in sz96 (you didn’t attack sz91 on G1). You can have Italy attempt to clean up the UK fleet and attack Greece It1 (w/Albanian units and 1 loaded tpt), but that is a tall order as well. If you fail to take Greece, or take it w/heavy losses then the next step to Turkey on It2 will also suffer. If you ampib Turkey w/Italy on It2, the UK will probably be able to kill your mini Italian fleet in sz99 (only has a destroyer and cruiser protecting it if the UK did Taronto).

So if there is a Taranto on UK1, you will probably need a back up plan. Maybe have Italy attack S France and go for Spain It2. The Germans take Turkey G3 (using the Bulgarians+ whatever else can reach). I think the Germans building up next to Spain or Turkey will be a dead giveaway though.

@Caesar:

The real issue with violating Spain as the US is the fact that all these neutrals in pro axis status that Germany and Italy can easily grab will more than likely be used against USSR so if the US lands in Spain, I would talk with USSR before doing it. Personally, my US plan is pulling Operation Torch and/or Overlord. I always make sure Africa is secured before anything is attempted in Euro. But that’s me, I never saw invading Spain as the US as a logical choice.

?

Read the original post again, this is about the axis doing a neutral crush (not the USA).

Ok, so you want to attack the 3 most important neutrals as axis at roughly the same time early in the game for strategic/econ purposes, maintain pressure on Russia, and keep the Anglo’s off your newly acquired territories. Pretty big task lol

1. What do you want the UK to do on the first couple turns?
2. When do you want to bring the US into the war?
3. You want to set-up and do Barbarossa to keep things looking normal and get to Moscow (axis goal).
4. Should you set-up to hit the neutrals G2, or G3?
   4a) Take Turkey to give the axis access to the Middle East and Southern Russia (income/strategic value).
   4b) Hit Sweden for more income (easy enough), and probably Switz so the allies don’t ever get 2 free inf.
   4c) Take Spain and set-up some kind of def/counter attack (or naval attack), because this is where you are going to be most vulnerable.

1 (UK) - You want the UK to build mostly inf UK1 (no IC in Egypt), so maybe buy 1 ship G1 to lightly threaten Sea Lion, or save most of your income? Sounds crazy, but you probably want the UK to do Taronto so you can kill the Med fleet leaving the UK fewer resources at their disposal to threaten Spain and Turkey.

2 (USA) - Have two choices, both have pro’s and con’s.
a) Leave USA out of the war until they come in on their own and cant preform attacks until US4 (may even entice the UK to attack Japan so the UK tie’s up more resources in the Pac still leaving the US out in the cold?) This will give the Euro axis some time, but the allies will be much stronger when they do come over and could build mostly Europe from the start

b) Hit US navy hard G1/J1. G1 attack sz101 w/German sub to try and kill cruiser/tpt. J1 hit both the Phil (fleet and island), and destroy US Hawaiian fleet (making sure the main Japanese fleet at Wake is safe from counter attack). Also hitting Britt BB etc… again leaving UK w/fewer resources. This sounds strange bringing the US into the war on the first turn when planning for an axis neutral invasion, but the US will be hard pressed to build in the Atlantic because of Japanese aggression. If they build Pac for the first couple turns in response, then you won’t have US ships sitting in sz101 able to hit Spain for a few turns (easier to def for the short term anyway).

3. I’m assuming you will still set-up and invade Russia G2 (or G3) because you don’t want to tip off the allies, and still need to take Moscow.

4. When to attack the neutrals G2/G3 or It2? Depends on if you have the use of the German air force on G2, and the Luftwaffe will probably be needed to take out the UK Med fleet G2 (more risk to your mechanized units vs those inf stacks w/o air power). Also who takes Turkey or Spain and when? The Italians could take Greece It1, and be ready to invade Turkey It2 (after the Anglo’s take their 2nd turn) and Germany moves in reinforcements G3. On the other hand Italy could take S France It1, and be ready to invade Spain It2 and the Germans could land some ground/air on Spain G3. In this case the Germans activate the Bulgarians G1, takes Greece G2, and invades Turkey G3 (hides intent). Either way I think Italy takes one, and the Germans reinforce it, then and invades the other (along w/Sweden of course). This allows the axis to basically go back to back and disguise it somewhat. Plus if the Germans hit the neutrals G2, the Americans would surly build Europe on US2.

As you described one of the main problem is that if you take Spain you will have yet another coastal territory to defend, and stacking it isn’t really a good option. Setting up a counter attack from Normandy or S France is a risk because again your units are on the coast and the allies could probably hit either of those territories and kill off your units by sea from Gibraltar. Even setting up mechanized units in Paris could be problematic because the allies could cut them off by taking Normandy and S France. Attacking the combined allied fleet would also be costly, and if it fails the axis are doomed if they lose the bulk of their air power.

I’m not advocating that the axis invading the neutrals early is a good strat, but if I were to attempt it think I would try to take out as much US/UK fleet in the first turn as possible (and turn 2), and try to disguise it best I can. Get the US building in the Pac theater the first couple turns would be key, to keep them out of Europe till like US5?. If they have to start from scratch on the Euro side on say US3 (after you take Spain etc…) then you could defend Spain for a couple turns before withdrawing forcing the US build more before coming over (either more ships, or more ground). Put some pressure on the UK so she builds mostly inf on the first turn, and make sure the UK Med fleet can’t interfere or be used to re-take my prizes (on the bottom of the Med would be the best place IMO). I think I would have Italy take either Spain or Turkey on It2 (Germany reinforces G3), then have Germany take the rest on G3. Need to watch what Russia has in the south because you don’t want them to be in position to counter attack your units in Turkey. Don’t think you can afford to delay Barbarossa past G3 though. Japan should also be ready to kill some Mongolians on J3 if they haven’t already activated them (breaking the NAP and turning them Russian).

@piscolar:

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and help. My opponent is my brother-in-law who has never played this version before and is easy going enough to just play for fun. Not competitive or intense. So he’s a good person to try it all out on.

Just a suggestion, but being that your brother-in-law hasn’t even played G40 yet I would defiantly go OOB for a couple games. Global is tough enough to play w/o the laundry list of changes you are proposing (just my thought).

piscolar, I have been messing around with the air line up for the last couple FTF games. I also believe that strats attacking at 4 is over the top, especially now that the tac was introduced in G40. I would also take the advice of the others and scale back some of your changes, and introduce one or two tweaks at a time to see what your group likes/don’t like, otherwise you could end up playing alone lol.

We originally tried strat bmr attack at 2, def 1 but gave it 2 dice when attacking ground (carpet bombing). This seemed to be ok, but honestly we weren’t all that happy because you just really miss that high roll from strats in the sea battles (range). We then decided to just make it a 3 attack (land and sea), 1 def and revisit the original thought later (kinda like a transitional time).

We didn’t change the attack/def values of the ftr/tac, but we did give them some abilities that seemed more in line with their duties.

Ftrs that roll 1 (At/Def)–hit applied to air units first (opponent still chooses casualties)
Tacs that roll 1 (At/Def)–hit applied to naval or ground units (person that rolled the “1” chooses casualties)

This gives the ftr some air combat duties, and allows the tac to target w/o changing the entire unit. It does require that you roll your air units separate though.

We are also looking at reducing all air units by 1 IPC because of attrition.

@Imperious:

Well if you allow BB and CV to take 2 turns to build and pay half each turn, it makes alot of sense to buy cruisers. The 3 move is great, but not sure to give it a 4 MOVE if from a naval port.

I’m also experimenting with many more convoy zones (UK convoy routes) mostly in the Atlantic, around Africa, and the Med. I’m hoping that giving the cruiser 3 moves (4 from nb) allows the axis to use it as a convoy raider at times because it can out run (or keep pace) with the allies ships. Adding more convoy zones is also making German subs more viable as commerce raiders.

To Baron Munchhausen, yea escort or light carrier would probably be a better terms then support carrier. I’ve been using A0, D1, M2-3, C12-carries 1 plane.  You bring up a good point about many of these light carriers were built on cruiser hulls though. Being this is a new ship for me at a relatively low cost (12 IPCs) I think I will keep it with the standard move of 2-3 for now (to warrant the cruiser at 12 IPC as the only fast ship), but will probably take a 3-4 move light carrier for a spin at some point.

PS: I’m really liking the 2 turn capital ship builds, and it is making ship building pretty interesting.

I’m also thinking about limiting 2 turn capital ship builds to major ICs (exception of USA who’s minors will be majors at some point). You can drop a capital ship at one of your minor ICs, but it takes an extra turn for delivery (3 turns to build). This is basically to stop the US or Japan from building capital ships in remote places. I would allow the UK Pac, Anz, Canada etc to build capital ships at their minor ICs, but theoretically they pay for the ship, it is built in England and delivered to the minor IC over 3 turns (same concept for the other powers building at their minor ICs). I realize that you could make a point that any ship built at a minor IC should be +1 turn because most ship yards would be at in the home territory where the major IC is (looking at that too lol).

I’ve been looking at keeping the cruiser at 12 IPCs, but it moves 3 spaces (4 from NB). The extra movement comes in handy. Also looking a 12 IPC 1 hit support carrier that holds 1 plane.

Been doing this along with capital ships take 2 turns to build (pay half down) so these 12 IPC ships are getting built. Thinking about reducing BB’s to 18 IPCs, and allowing a damaged carrier to hold 1 plane to help offset the 2 turn build.

I agree that if you splinter off Canada completely (its own power) the UK will suffer, and the Canadians wouldn’t be strong enough by themselves to make a difference. You could make them part of the Anz, but then you have a mini Commonwealth power that can’t attack w/UK units in Europe, and can only defend together (not great for the European theater IMO).

Maybe have Canada be like UK Pac, part of the one UK Nation, with a separate economy (all units are still UK, and fight together).

Canada starts with 7 IPCs, but gets a 5 IPC NO for controlling all original Canadian territories, and there are no German subs in the North Atlantic (sz101-104 and above) excluding sz112. Canada had a big role in protecting convoys so it seems to fit, and returns this NO to the allies.

Also start Quebec w/AB and one ftr. This should save the tiny Canadian fleet in sz106, and allow them to send ftrs and ground units directly to England (should be enough to help def sea lion w/UK losing the 7 Canadian IPCs). This will keep things pretty much as is in the Euro, but some of the UK units will be funneled through Canada now. As for when a territory is captured or UK territory is liberated on the Euro side income goes to London (Pac goes to India) unless the territory is Canadian.