@cb4:
FYI, I posted here while waiting for my login to be created by HBG. They turned off automatic account creation because of spammers.
@Whitshadw - thanks for your reply. My question is more aimed at the escort being able to fire on raiding subs after all raiding rolls are done. It was explained in the video and per the rules p.45 (my emphasis):
“Escorts forfeit any Attack during their turn but 2) Defend automatically against each unit
raiding any member of their Alliance and 1) provide a (cumulative) modifier against the
raiding rolls of submarines…”
So escorts first add modifiers to the raiding die rolls. After the raiding is all done, they then get to “Defend automatically against each” raiding sub i.e. they get to attack each sub with their defense value (1-4 on D12).
@Whitshadw:
…The (Escort Duty) marker on the Destroyer is suppose to represent that Destroyer “protecting” that whole line…
Your statement goes to the heart of my question. One destroyer can’t protect a whole line. Realistically, it can protect its own sea zone and that’s it. I see 2 problems with raiding as it stands:
1)Â A destroyer escort in the sea zone by Quebec has a 1/3 chance to sink a sub in the sea zone by England. Wow, that’s a pretty long way to shoot a depth charge!
- That an escort can attack every raiding sub is over-powered. No other unit has the ability to fire on a potentially unlimited number of enemy units. HBG says the point of raiding is to force the British to spread out their navy to protect their lines. But that’s not necessary if escorts attack raiders – the British only need to situate destroyer escorts at the end of each line to get a ~66% chance every turn to sink each raiding sub.
Here’s a very reasonable example. With 2 destroyer escorts vs. 2 raiding subs, on average Germany will lose 5 IPCs per turn (132% chance of 1 sub sunk) while the the Allies will lose 0 IPCs per turn for a 14 IPC investment (average raiding rolls will be even: 3.5 + 2 for both escort rolls and 3.5 + 2 for each of two sub rolls). It gets worse because the more Germany raids, the more it loses. Raiding for 3 turns will lose Germany 20 IPCs vs. zero raiding losses for the Allies (on average).
FYI, see HBG’s convoy raiding video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYqnmewT2N8
Believe me I get it! … we Struggled with it for a while just to grasp exactly how this concept works and is it a good investment as to convoy raid. Ultimately the choice is simply what is your strategy and how best to implement it. Â
for example, I love subs… I use them very effectively and make the conscious choice on when and where to convoy raid anyone. if I see an opportunity to exploit the enemy with subs I take it but if the allied player is able to post enough ( Escort Duty ) ships then its no longer effective not only that but by going after ships that are on Escort Duty it quickly thins out their fleet.
As to the Destroyer being able to fire back after convoy raiding I get it believe me I find it very over powering as well. But the axis player doesn’t have to convoy raid when it is not in their best interest, the immediate pro’s to it is that the money is taken directly out of the players coffers  so they have less to spend when there turn starts. the Allies especially BG is taxed early with protecting a large amount of territory.
For example, the Italians can choose to declare war at any point of the game, it dose not have to be announced at the start of the players turn and you can in fact set up your combat move and then announce your declaration of war. Meaning if I wanted to sail the Italian Navy through Gibraltar or Suez and set up my attack I can the down side is once you declare war you are locked out of going back into the Med unless you take over the Suez or Gibraltar.
My point is you take the best opportunity to choose when to convoy raid based on the opportunity  provide to you. If you sink or knock out a few ships and see a Empty convoy line you can move a sub that was not used in combat over and use it then to convoy raid with out any repercussions.
The way they describe it is that it Simulates the action of protecting that entire line, too which I understand and get that concept ( after a long while). With the rules laid out that needing a plane to be on C.A.P to sink subs or if you willing choose to have them partake in a navel battle for either defense or offense it is other wise difficult to hunt for subs unless you have planes looking for them. ( Carrier or Land Based ) … If you can spread  out the enemy’s navy and  with the combination of planes and your ships it becomes at times taxing for the allies to make sure you have enough IPP to cover all of your soft targets.
Mind you that Subs convoy raiding go first before the defensive rolls of any Destroyer.
Its weird at first and took us a few games to work it out but with different strategies and playing styles aggressive or passive its something that actually isn’t bad and works out.
