Posts made by Whitmann

SZ106:
Atk: 1Sub
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (3)

Def: 1Des
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)

Or maybe not! - Let me know about scrambles and how to roll thanks

Cheers, Talk to you tomorrow

Scrambles?

• it’s been so long I forget how to roll!

I think it’s :aaa1@1:

Germany Turn 1:

Bid for Axis Won at +6 IPC to Axis
Bid placed as 1Arm in Wge

Buy: 30 IPC

1 CV =  16
2 TT =  14
Total:    30

Combat Movement:

Land Combat:

Wfr:
Hol->Wfr - 3Inf+3Arm

Efr:
Hol->Efr - 1Inf+2Rtl
Sge->Efr - 2Arm
Wge->Efr - 3 Inf+1Rtl+4Mec+1Arm
Pol->Efr - 1Tac

Yug:
Hun->Yug - 2Inf+1Arm
Sge->Yug - 3Inf
Pol->Yug - 1Arm
Rom->Yug - 1Inf+1Arm

Naval Combat:

SZ106:
SZ117->SZ106 - 1Sub

SZ110:
SZ103->SZ110 - 1Sub
SZ108->SZ110 - 1Sub
Wge->SZ110 - 2Fht+2Tac
Ger->SZ110 - 1BMB

SZ111:
Nor->SZ111 - 1Fht
Ger->SZ111 - 1Tac
Hol->SZ111 - 1Fht
Wge->SZ111 - 1Tac
SZ124->SZ111 - 1Sub
SZ118->SZ111 - 1Sub

SZ112:
SZ113->SZ112 - 1Crz+1BB
Hol->SZ112 - 1Fht

Whitmann Vs Jim010 Germ T1 CBT.AAM

Place 6IPC bid as 1Arm in Wge

Here we go!

After seeing this tactic in play I have a few questions for the doubters:

1.  Even if Jim’s math is slightly out - which depending on the methods used I agree with you can vary. 
I think it is crystal clear that the tactic provides for a better then 60% chance of capturing UK on turn 3, do you agree?

2. What would you do if you went with Jim’s tactic and it failed to capture UK on turn 3?

I know what I would do.  load the transports again and hit turn 4, which given the Uk’s very limited resources has got to be a much higher probabilty, then the 78% on turn 3.

3. Your assuming a perfect defence with the UK, which I might add total screws the UK in the med and the atlantic even if they manage to hold (which requires luck) do you think any player that hadn’t seen it would stand a chance against it?

4. Do any of you  think for a second that the game designers, really desgined a game “on purpose”, in which in MOST games played with the out of the box rules allows for the capture of UK on turn 3 and at worst turn 4?

It seems clear to me that Jim broke the game, good job with the math and great job with the overall tactic. It is clear we need to be discussing a fix, not if the tactcic works or not… It works, and what is more clear is that the math supports it working just about every game.

@zooooma:

The more I think about this, the more I think the India crush should be unstoppable.

How could Japan ever win tis game?  It seems unlikely to me that Japan could take and hold Hawaii and Queensland - especially without losing Kwangtung.  That means for Japan to have any chance, India must fall, and fall early enough That Japan still has a decent shot vs ANZAC and USA.

If the game is balanced, there shouldn’t be any way to stop the India crush, but there also shouldn’t be any obvious easy counter strategy.  India should fall , and from there it should be a struggle.  If the game is not balanced, it will need optional rules or a small bid (but not enough to outright thwart the India crush - only enough to fight on After).

In the forum games it would seem that India is cleanly takable on turn 3 leading to a highly cashed fueled Japanese player able to out produce the combined wealth of Australia and the USA, as well at the point they turn to the east to capture Haw or Saw they have a HUGE unit advantage, so not only to they make more money, they get India;s money and they have the units (more or less) in place to finish of the Allies.

THE GAME NEEDS A BID. Quite simply either there exists some obscure strategy which will off set the seemly massive Japanese advantages or the game is moderately imbalanced and  requires players bid for the Allies.  I suspect that the game will make more sense in the context of a linked world game, with the release of APP40 Europe.

I completely agree with Autarch, I’ve played 5 or so games on the forum and 15 or 20 in real life, against good oponents and it seems clear the game, like many of its predecessors has some balance issues.  I’ve been reading the posts on this for a while now and although I have seem some well thought out strategies they all really seem to need a ton of luck or the Japanese having never seen that strategy before.

In the forum we have begun (in some games) to bid for the Axis ie. take the Allies but with additional IPC to build units at the start of the game.

The problem we have started to run into is the bid number needed to stand a chance with the Allies get to be high enough that the options of what the Allies could do with the extra cash become hard to fore see.

However I have been watching a few other games and it seems that if the  Japanese attack turn 2 or latter the games are much closer.  The problem is, why on earth would Japan wait until turn 2 to attack as game after game on the forum shows that, played correctly and baring horrible luck, the Japanese take India on turn 3.
We have been working on counters to extend that to turn 4 but it is VERY difficult and typically relies on the Japanese player making a mistake or two.

Someone had asked about a J1 attack on Haw.  It is possible, but requires a good measure of luck to actually capture Haw on turn 1 (which is really the only point to it) as that, allows you in SOME games to kill the 2nd half of the US fleet and cost them a ton of money.

Check out the Calcutta thread its this same conversation…

As either you’re right and I’m (I being myself and what seems to be most of the players on the forum) just too stupid to figure out the obsure Allied strategy that balances this this thing up or I’m right and the game has some balance issues when the Japanese player pushes India t3/t4.  In either case unless you care on sharing the afore mentioned obsure Allied strategy, what do you think a far bid is for the Allies to stand a snowballs chance?  Gwlachmai I would love to hear your thoughts on a far bid system / number for future forum games.

Also someone had mentioned rules changes, although I HATE with capitals HATE house rules and tinkering with games rules does anyone have thoughts on what could be changed.

I think that a NO new navy / air base rule would quickly help balance the game, knee capping the speed and strength of the J1 -> india push.???

I’m curious at what point during game development Harris et.al. added the buying of airbases (as they where fix in the last pacific game)

And be nice to each other…

@Razor:

@Gwlachmai:

So basically the counter arguement is that the game is not broken is…we can’t (or won’t) demonstate that it’s not broken, just take our word for it, the play testers are smarter then we are. I’m all for reasoned debate, but, that line of thinking brings nothing to the discussion.

So basically some of WOTC’s sharpest brains started to playtest this game back in 2005, and you know what, some of the playtesters are actually lurking this forum, and they laugh at you at this very moment, when they see your level. So let me get you straight, you purchased this game two months ago, right, and how many games have you played, less than 10, right, and now you claim the game is broken ? Dude, come back to me next year, and if you still think the game is broken, I just might wrote you an strategy essay and explain how the allies are played correctly. Obviously you dont have a clue.

Wow heated debate… I’m not sure that agree with you, is your arguement that Larry Harris has never released an unbalanced game prior to this one and we (all the online forum(s) players over the years are just not near as clever as he and his play test group?

Most,  NO, all of the Axis & Allies games prior to this one have had significant balance issues with them.  It would take an army of players a million years to create a game of this complexity with the balance of a chess game.  It is simply not possible.  Hell I’m impressed that Harris is able to create games that are this entertaining and have a feel and flavor of the real war.

Razor you may well have hit on the answer, we don’t really yet know how the two games have been developed where they separatly “balanced” and if so are they really balanced once linked or was it developed as a single large “balanced” game which has been split into two spearate games for pricing and sales reasons?

Guess we’ll find out.

No matter how you look at it, the complexity of actually truly balancing a game of the size of these two is nearing impossible, a bid is likely to be required no matter what.

Don’t anybody mistake my suggesting that the game requires a bid as a large critacism of the game, it is a fantastic game prehaps Larry Harris’ best in the series so far.  I’m just sugesting that incredible difficultly boring on imposiblity of seeing every combination of tactics may… will… lead to bids being nessesary to rebalance the game, post release.

I think that played on it’s own that APP40 currently requires  a bid of somewhere between 12-18 IPC to the Allies to be used in the initial setup.

Anyone have thoughts on the bid number? I know 12-18 is a hugely wide range.

What I think they missed was a combination of the construction of a Naval Base in Kwa and Japan’s ability to simply and for little cost airsweep the UK’s units off the board if they step forward to Burma.  I think the answer is like almost all of there games previous to this a bid system to allow the game to keep up with evolving tactics.

Although I agree in some games it may be possible to delay Japan to turn 4 before India falls, it is not the case in most games, several things need to go the right way turn1 Japan has a chance of failing to take Phi, which can in some cases slow the Japanese until turn 4 as well the allies can run the Japanese fleet in Jav (assuming the japanese went there) however played correctly the Japanese fleet there survives more often then not (55-60% of games) and even if it’s lost the Uk losses their airforce which means the Japanse don’t need near the units to take india.  As far as the fleet blocking idea we(many of the forum players) have over and over again been able to stop / kill the UK blockers turn 2.  I agree completely there are SOME (a very small some) of games that if the Allies play very agressively and risk a lot and get lucky they can delay lossing India unitl turn 4 however they need a good measure of luck.  Even if you can delay Japan taking India unitl turn 4, at the point they take India they are collecting a massive income 60-70 nature +plus the india money.  I truely feel that if two skilled and evenly matched players are playing without a bid, the Japanese will win 80+% of the time, really mayble even more from what the last 5-10 games online seem to show.

Just my thoughts on it.

Pretty sure as everyone playing on this board reads the errata and corrections… The Japanese simpley can not be stopped without a bid.

No problem once you get the map uitliity and dice figured out send me a personal message and if you want I’ll have you a game.

Razor what would you do as the Allies if two very experienced equal players are playing? for eg. Gwlachmai and I have a game going right in the forum and I am Japan, I’ve made at least one major oversight which he/she capitalized but as I am Japan it still looks good for me at teh moment, as it’s turn 4 and I’ve captured Ind and most of Asia and there is and was NOTHING more he could have done to stop it.  So… no bid means your typicaly losing with the Allies.

Never mind it saw the rolls both time…

you typeInput ErrorThere was an error in your dice throw: “then” is not correct syntax.so “aaa 3@1 4@2 3@3” with the " replaced with : both start and finish will roll the dice

We play by e-mail, and use the forum to roll the dice, it is actually a huge pain compared to playing in real life but the level of play is much better, and it’s all that’s available.

Check the forum “Play Board games section” and send someone a personal message asking for a game or simply start a topic and hope someone plays.  They can explain it.  Your first few games take lot of time but it gets quicker.

We use a map utility called ABattleMap then download and install the APP 40 Map from Flames of Europe Downloads section.

The dice are rolled inside the forum by typing the numbers of rolls for example

To roll 5 Inf 2 Rtl and 3 Arm you would type “Rolls: 3@1 4@2 3@3; Total Hits: 23@1: (2, 4, 1)4@2: (3, 3, 3, 5)3@3: (3, 6, 6)” (ingnore the “” if I just type it in with out quotes it rolls the dice eg.

Rolls: 3@1 4@2 3@3; Total Hits: 53@1: (1, 2, 5)4@2: (1, 1, 2, 6)3@3: (4, 1, 6)

Have fun!