@SS-GEN Exactly. If UK can dump 10 infantry into India anytime it wants then Japan will never take it and never take China.
Then they can build fighters for the Middle east/Russia there, saving on a factory, so UK’s entire game could be UK1 anti-Sea Lion buy, UK2 build in India and S. Africa until forever.
I mean… imagine UK 2 they do mechs/artillery, etc and then start buying navy with their combined 45 ipcs so the U.S. can spend all its money in Germany for 5 rounds.
@taamvan I’m inclined to agree about original game… I’ve been testing mostly in balanced mod to some success.
I am happy to report that mechanized Russia will absolutely punish Germany for Sea Lion. In one case an opponent did a delayed Sea Lion (land on Scotland G3, London G4) and Russia took Berlin R5. That game was all artillery R1 and then mechs/tanks R2 and R3, then more planes.
@Argothair I’m sort of debating whether Russian bombers become worthwhile when you see Sea Lion since you can hit Berlin hard and use them for other things on your attacks.
For those who do want to invade with Russia, hit the Slovakia pathway because German transports can hit the coasts. Tanks in Slovakia force German/Italian blockers in Southern Germany, etc but unless you’ll be able to take Berlin, push south and gobble up all that precious money… take N. Italy if you can…
@barnee said in We need an allied playbook.:
@Guam-Solo
I haven’t checked any games out in a while but some people are stacking SZ 92 and not doing Taranto. Idk how that plays out. Another thing to consider though : )
If Germany takes S. France on G1, it doesn’t work out great.
In the 3 games I’ve played where my Allied opponent does it, Italy has had planes (and in one case, a battleship) left after sinking UK’s fleet. But I personally believe its worth Italy losing its fleet/planes to sink UK’s entire fleet and (hopefully) and 2-5 UK planes while Italy gets to use 2 transports to do something stupid.
/if Italy takes Morocco it makes a great landing spot for German planes to sink Allied shipping off Gibraltor
Yeah, a 1ipc territory isn’t going to pay off if you have to spend 1 inf/1 art to take out the 1 inf holding it.
Mechanized Russia can mean being able to take advantage of soft play by Germany - if they blunder at all with Sea Lion you might even win the game by taking Berlin round 5 or 6… - and give Russia some counter options. Certainly useful if your German opponent tends to split up their army.
@seancb try flipping the order, so R1 buy 6 artillery, then buy mechs and/or tanks so the artillery are available right away.
If it looks like a slow play Germany I may buy 3 more art for the northern factory on R2
Balanced mod helps with its ability to carry a marine, but even then I only use the original 1 or 2 cruisers I start with.
Bombard is nice, like mentioned, but I usually already have 1-2 cruisers/battleships so no big deal for more since its maxed by number of transports.
So, to reinforce your 5 cruisers or 8 destroyers example… both get you approximately 2.5 hits per round BUT the destroyers soak more hits, drag out combat for more rounds, and larger numbers of rolls reduce variance - you’re more likely to whiff on 5 rolls than eight. As proof… Triple A’s battle calculator shows 5 cruisers vs 8 destroyers gives the win to the destroyers 85% of the time.
I think the only time I’ve purchased a cruiser in a game was as ANZAC playing balanced mod since I wanted the troop carrier and risk to Japanese planes on the counter attack when they had no ships to attack with or retake the islands.
Good note, thank you. I’m still very much working on how to optimize this strategy and what all the if/then’s are.
A reminder that I can acknowledge that against a focused on Moscow German player, Russia can’t really do anything
The idea of mechanized Russia is that by buying fast movers for any factory other than Novgorod, you give yourself more assets to work with in earlier rounds IF the German player makes a mistake. Example: Germany did a sea lion and mechanized Russia meant absolutely punishing Germany for it, despite them taking London, because Russia was able to move quickly to invade. Or against a careless player they’ll leave you a stack you can counter against because they’re used to retreating/turtling Russians.
In later rounds you’ll have a little more flexibility as well. Even if you shift to infantry stacks after R3, at least those mechs/tanks from R1-3 are still around to blitz, hit stray enemies, or help block the route south.
The idea is to sacrifice the purchase of a few extra infantry in exchange for more units at the front lines quicker. Then you can flip back to infantry per usual.
I haven’t done math on a G1 buy of mechs/tanks. I’m thinking 6 tanks or 7 mechs makes it all pointless for Russia. All other buys…
I’m scrambling London but not Scotland so hopefully Germany loses 3 or 4 planes.
If Russia buys 6 tanks R1, Germany can’t safely hold E. Poland G2 which means a big advantage for Russia if Germany makes the mistake and tries to.
At the same time, all US buys are Atlantic so they can threaten Normandy or Norway very early, or help with Italy a bit. UK preps to join in and maybe also drop troops in Greece. The more German units have to spread out, the better and mechanized Russia can capitalize on mistakes very well.
G3 scenarios I haven’t worked through yet.
I don’t like “abandon” Bombay but if one can use UKPac/China to cost Japan a lot of planes, I’m for it!
Its my favorite Yunnan stack move, if you can lure Japan into winning a big battle, but it costs them 6+ planes, that’s a victory, even if you end up losing India.
My only remaining concern is if Japan gets India, the threat it has on the Middle East. I don’t have a good handle on that yet.
In my Mechanized Russia thread, I mention my current strategy which appears to be similar to yours. I’m spending 100% U.S. on the Atlantic for the first few turns and simply trying to stall or annoy Japan, cost them valuable planes or transports when possible.
Everything else is designed to 1) slap Italy back away from Africa/ME; 2) get Norway; 3) get Normandy; 4) fill Iraq/Iran with UK infantry stacks
So, more or less I’m hoping to stall Germany long enough on Moscow for the U.S. to take Norway/Finland and cause other threats so that there are no more Germany reinforcements to Russia, and the UK blocks Germany from the ME and then picks a spot (Greece, Normandy) to chip in on Europe.
I’m a believer in a UK scramble out of London on G1, if it will kill 3+ German planes.
Taranto can include the bomber from London and the fighter from Scotland.
Benefits: the goal is to kill 2/3 of Italy’s fleet (along with destroyer/transport at Malta).
Best case scenario: It costs italy/Germany both ships and lots of planes and UK still has 1 fighter, 1 tactical, 1 bomber left, possibly a ship or 2.
Worst case: Italy/Germany scrambles 3, the dice go poorly, but you still win but only have a bomber left.
If you do this (Taranto and scramble sz 110) U.S. buy will be 100% Atlantic for US 1-3. Though I believe it should be no matter what.
I’m a believer in any strategy that costs the Axis both their opportunities (Italy with no transports has few opportunities) AND costs the Axis their planes, especially early when the effects will linger through out the game for longer.
Also, if you’re able to get rid of Germany and Italy’s navies their only threats to US/UK naval power is their planes. If you ALSO killed half their planes on G1/UK1, they are both weaker attacks against your navy, meaning buying fewer carriers, for instance, but also they have to make a choice whether those planes should be over in Russia or back home in Germany.
If you’re really lucky, Italy will keep buying ships for UK to sink instead of helping against Russia, and Germany will have to spend a fortune replacing planes or just not have any to harass you on the Atlantic side.
Often, after Taranto, UK can keep Italy in check with existing units once they’ve gathered at Cairo, and a little help on the Atlantic side from the U.S. to reach Gibraltor/Morroco.
It can and maybe should include
1 UK dd from sz 109
1 UK cruiser from sz 91
1 UK carrier and cruiser from sz 98
And either 4 fighters and a tactical or 5 fighters split between Gibraltor and the carrier
My issue with the stack is IF Germany takes S. France then Italy can attack with
1 BB
2 cruisers
1 DD
1 sub
1 bomber
2 fighters
This is not a win for Italy except that it can usually wipe out UK’s fleet and some planes but gets to keep an extra transport in the deal.
I’m inclined to say I disagree with you about the UK ships being more precious.
The UK’s ships are incredibly useful BUT not necessarily required for creating opportunities. Italy’s ships are desperately needed in order for them to expand. Thus, if you’re able to trade the UK’s fleet for Italy’s the net result is a push for UK and Italy, but Italy only makes 10-15 ipcs and stays there. The UK can continue to expand into the middle east or piggy back the U.S. fleet in the Atlantic.
Taranto leaves Italy 1 transport and few warships vs the 92stack leaves Italy 2 transports and most of its fleet.
With the UK sz92 fleet stack getting some more attention, I thought I’d ask for any Axis responses you’ve tried.
I’ve only played Axis the way I’ve listed below, so would love to hear how you’ve had it shake out.
So far, I’ve begun taking S. France as Germany on G1, so Italy can attack the stack with everything on its turn.
This is still a losing attack for Italy, so why do it? Because it should kill the UK fleet, possibly take a fighter or two scrambled off of Gibraltor with it, and leave Italy with its 2 transports on the other side of the Med to try and pressure a (hopefully) weaker Egypt.
I’ve been going full Russia with my G1 buys lately, but am considering whether some or all of the 2 bomber, 1 sub buy on G1 is useful. G2 you’d be able to sink anything left on one side of Gibraltor or other, but I’m not convinced that’s worth reducing Germany’s power against Russia.
One thought: if you DID G1 2 bombers and took S. France and Italy did reasonably well to sink the UK fleet… wouldn’t that be a perfect setup for Sea Lion? UK 92 stack leaves basically no spending for London, but they lose their fleet and a lot of planes anyway…