Posts made by way2slo

I’m in the middle of giving Diplomacy a spin.  It looks promising so far, but it may be that this is one of those games where YMMV based upon who you play with.  I can see how some types of gamers would love a game like this, while others would just grief everyone and suck the fun out of it, and still others that would hate it on principle.

PRO:

• I like the idea of having everyone move at the same time, more realistic.  You actually have surprises.  Watching the faces of people that just got stabbed is classic.
• No real down-time.
• Technically, the war has not started yet so you get to choose your own allies.
• No luck, only pure strategy and cunning.
• Support Costs.  Basically, you can’t just keep building and building forever.  More realistic.
• Fleets are a major part of the game, not just a mode of transportation for armies.

CON:

• Adjudication.  The simple hold, attack, support, convoy orders can get very complex very quickly, but you have to have know it to get your armies and fleets to do what you want.  Then you have to figure out how it settles when all the orders start clashing together.  Yes, there are paradoxes.
• Stalemates.  2, 3, and even 4 way ties are normal.  You can spend hours upon hours playing only to have no winner.
• Finding players.  You really need all 7 to get the full experience.
• If your friends are the sort that hold grudges, you may actually lose their friendship just by playing this game once.

First play test is complete.  Zombies took over half of Asia after starting in the Philippines but then were wiped out shortly after Germany fell and Japan surrendered.  There are a bunch of tweaks and fixes needed to the rules.  The Zs seem formidable at first, but once you get some large stacks attacking them they are easily subdued.  I’ll post here when I have them.

@mozkaynak:

• Put an IC in Sinkiang: Therefore I will able to produce US units near to Russia to slow down Japan and defend Moskow when needed.

Only if you go after Japan first, KJF, which can be fun to do for a change.  Otherwise, it is easy pickings for Japan and now they have a Factory really close to Moscow.  :-(

@mozkaynak:

• Develop a fleet in Atlantic Ocean and continuously transfer soldiers to North Africa. I will attack Germany from Mediterranean sea and will make sure that I control Suez Channel.

I like to do this myself.  Just watch out for a possible attack on London if Germany has their air force in West Europe and made any naval purchases on their first turn, G1.  You may have to divert your first landing in Algeria to UK to help defend London.

@mozkaynak:

Do you think these are reasonable strategies to bring USA to the war zone in time?
Thank You.

Another bonus about having the US go to Berlin via Africa is that now Germany has to guard the territories that border Med too.  It can cause them to keep more units back to defend instead of advancing the Eastern Front.  And you can still 1-2 punch West Europe.  I find that I don’t mind so much when my US transport fleet gets strafed by the Luftwaffe because 1) it is a distraction, preventing the Luftwaffe from hitting on the Eastern Front and 2) you get some defensive hits and now the Luftwaffe is that much weaker.

I’m about midway through my first play-test.  By the end I’ll have some rule improvements.  The Zs are formidable.  Initial outbreak was in the Philippines.  Rolled a 6, which zombified all the Civs and units for a total of 14 Zs.  They spread outward via the even spread rules and wiped out Okinawa, Burma, and the Carolines.  New Guinea and East Indies are holding out and will likely be safe for the rest of the game.  The Zs hit FIC and Shanghai the same turn and from there they spread out to Buratia, China, Mongolia, Afghanistan,and Persia.  Currently there are 44 zombies scattered across south east Asia.  Japan has been out of the picture as most of their territory is now swarming with Zs.  Tokyo itself is well defended and is hoping to repel the imminent Zs headed their way next turn.  And they learned the hard way that you have to outnumber the Zs 3-1 if you want assured victory.  Several failed attacks against a Z horde.  The Brits wisely evacuated India, Persia, and Trans Jordan.  If you leave the Civs the Zs multiply too fast.  The neutral zones with Civs are dangerous and really influence the battle against the Zs.

Oh, I’m using money to track Civs and Zs.  Nickels and Pennies seem to work fine.  The Bag 'O Zombies is almost perfect.  They are slightly larger than the game’s Infantry pieces, but not enough to be distracting.  They look great on the board.

A few more possible tweaks:

• Nations cannot collect IPCs from territories that have 1 or more Zs in them. (who’s going to work when Zs are on your front lawn?)
• When you move a Civ, they do not count towards your IPC total at the end of your turn.
• If a Z successfully attacks a transport or carrier holding 1 or more Civs, then all Civs are turned into Zs according to the ratio as well as the transporting unit itself. (I’ll definitely add this one)

This topic has gone in and out of my thoughts since I first noticed it.  I’m going to play test this myself when I get the chance.  I’ll pick up a Bag 'o Zombies, find some way to track Civs, and get cracking.

@valthonis:

Personally I think the civilian tracking is unneeded.

Well, if you drop that then you can drop the Civ transportation rules.

Basically, I wanted to get the feel for fleeing refugees into the game.  Think of WWZ and the Great Panic.  Not only do you have to kill the Zs, but you have to protect your Civs by transporting them to safety, which are your production and your “hit points”.  You almost have to do it because with the Zs attacking your Civs directly you stand a risk of being over-run where 2 Zs have a 5/36 chance of becoming 6 Zs and a 1/36 chance of becoming 10 Zs.

I was also pondering a rule about diminishing returns for Civs in low IPC territories.  Basically, you get 1 IPC per Civ up to the IPC value of the territory.  Past the IPC value, you only get 1 IPC for every 2 Civs rounding down.  For example, in Germany, you get 9 IPCs for 9 Civs and 10 for 10, but 11 Civs only gets you 10 IPCs and 12 Civs get you 11 IPCs.  That way you don’t get Hawaii with 36 IPCs produced, but only 18, whereas Germany would give you 23 with that same 36 Civs.  However, it may be too restrictive.

Please, let me know if you try the Mod I suggested above.  I am very interested in hearing how it worked, what was good about it, and what was bad about it.  8-)

Axis & Allies & Zombies (WARNING: This has NEVER been play-tested!  Proceed at your own risk!  The Z to Civ ratio may need adjusting.)

Materials:

• Zombie figures (a Z, or Zs)
• Civilian Family figures (a Civ, or Civs)
• extra chip counters, or some way to track a lot of Zs and Civs on the board.

Setup:

• Each Territory gets Civs = to it’s IPC value.  All grey Neutral Zones get 2 Civs, Except Sahara Desert and Himilaya get 0.
• Set up board as normal for each nation.
• The Outbreak:  Randomly choose a territory, roll 1d6, and that many Civs in that territory are removed and become Zombies at a ratio of 4 Zs for 1 Civ. (1 Family = Mother, Father, and 2 kids)  If the roll is greater than the IPC, the territory owner takes casualties, like during combat, and remove units in that territory and replace with Zombies until the roll is reached or there are not more units left.  Note: to make things interesting, try randomly choosing a Victory City.

Combat Movement:

• Zombie Automated Attack: Zs must do a combat move into an adjacent territory if it has any Civs and there are no Civs in it’s current territory.  If more than one qualify, evenly distribute Zs between them and randomly distribute the remainder into those territories.  If there are Civs in the current territory, each Z in that territory rolls 1d6 and on a 1 removes a Civ and adds 4 Zs to that Territory.
• For each Z that enters a territory that contains one or more Civs, roll a special opening fire shot and for each hit (2 or 1), remove a Civ and add 4 more Zs.  These new Zs do not get to do this, but do participate on the Battle Board.
• Zs have a movement of 1 and can move into into Grey zones and into an adjacent Sea Zone if it has a navy. (Stop laughing.  To make things more interesting, I am assuming that all navy ships in a sea zone adjacent to a land territory are docked and trying to help the Civs.  If you want your Navies safe, you must have them in a Sea Zone that is not adjacent to a land territory.)  Zs can only attack a SZ when moving from land, so Zs already in a water zone at the beginning of a turn are submerged and cannot attack or be attacked.
• Zs can move from a Sea Zone to a land territory for an attack.
• Everyone can attack into Grey zones.
• Players attacking a zone with one or more Players and/or Zs present must declare who they are attacking.  It can be just one, or some, or all in that territory or zone.

Combat:

• Civilians are 0/0 and may not participate in combat.
• Zombies are 2/1, casualties caused by zombies are removed from the battle board and that many Zombies are added on to the battle board immediately at a ratio of 1 Z for every 1 Infantry and Artillery, 2 Zs for all others.
• All Military units are 1/1 vs. Zombies (You need a critical head shot.)

Non-Combat Move:

• Civs have a movement of 0.  However, you may move a Civ in your control by using one of the following units that has not participated in combat this turn:  Infantry, Artillery, & Tank. (it escorts the Civs)  Bombers can transport 1 Civ if it has not participated in combat.  The unit moves the Civ according to that unit’s movement rules.  Transports treat Civs like Infantry. (2 or 1 and something else)  Carriers can move Civs like transports and can carry 2 Civs instead of 1 Fighter.  (4 Civs or 2 Civs and 1 Fighter)
• Zombie Automated Move: Zs That have not attacked this turn move in the following manner:
• • Zs will stay where they are if there are fewer Zs than the IPC value of the current territory plus 1.
• • If there are more than the IPC value plus 1, the extra will move to an adjacent land territory that has the fewest Zs.  If more than one qualify, evenly distribute them between the territories and randomly distribute the remainder.  If no land territory has less and an adjacent Sea Zone is empty, then move the extra into the Sea Zone.
• • If Zs are in a Sea Zone, randomly move them 1 in any direction, SZ to SZ or SZ to land territory.
• • Zs beginning their turn in a SZ are submerged and cannot attack or be attacked.
• • Zs may not use the Panama Canal or the Suez Canal.  They must cross over the land.
• • Zs that move into a SZ that completely surrounds an island are considered to be on the island.

IPCs:

• Each Nation may collect IPCs from their territories based on how many Civs are in that territory.  Zs do not collect IPCs.  All IPCs given to them are lost.

Additional Rules:

• The turn order is:  Russia, Germany, Great Brittan, Japan, US, Zombies.
• A country that has no Civs or Units under it’s control is eliminated.
• Only one nation can own a territory.
• Zs cannot own territory.
• The owner of a territory controls all the Civs in that territory.
• The first player that is eliminated becomes the Zombie Player (ex: Zombie Churchill) and may ignore the Automated Attack and Move rules and may move and attack as they see fit.
• Zs do not collect IPCs and cannot research Tech and cannot build units.
• Zs cannot cooperate with other players.
• Axis and Allied nations may cooperate with each other if they choose to up an to the point that they choose not to.
• Zs win the game if all other players are eliminated.
• Players win if they have met the normal win conditions AND all Zs are eliminated.
• Factories can only produce as many units up to and including the number of Civs in the same territory.[UPDATED: 7/14/2010]
• Factories can be removed from the board, “demolished & salvaged”, for 1 IPC. (This is to allow players to get around the no more Factory models rule) [UPDATED: 7/14/2010]

@miker49:

snip
….plus UK and US industrial bombing, Germany was all but defeated…
snip
…Any help?

You may wish to rethink the SBRs.  Well, if you have absolutely no other use for your bombers, I guess it is not a terrible idea.  However, you may want to move them to somewhere that they can be of other use too.  Getting to roll for some 4’s in a battle is really nice and there are some who feel that it is more effective for your cause than an SBR.

Thus is a large weakness of the “forum” format when it comes to sharing information.

In time, and a short time at that, knowledge is buried and forgotten.  That great, informative post you wrote last year is hopelessly impossible to find by anyone that doesn’t know exactly where it is.

This also causes the cyclic nature of forums.  A body of people come together to discuss a topic.  Over time they cover all the points and nuances.  New people are told “we talked about that topic here” or the less friendly “learn to use the search tool”.  Eventually, the old guard has run out of things to talk about and leave the board because it is boring.  Then in time a core of new people come together to discuss the topic.  They re-hash all the old topics, more or less from scratch.

If you want information to endure, I recommend putting it in a Wiki.  They are remarkably less fun than a forum, but the information is easily accessible to all.  Especially if it is cross-linked well.  Take a look at tvtropes.org and how that Wiki is designed.  Lots of cross-linking not only limited to things directly discussed as part of the topic definition, but also to things that are similar for comparison and to things that are opposites for contrast.

@Papasmurph:

……Who cares about Egypt?  Killing the fighter is nice I guess but I always take my units from Africa and put them into Europe…

I toyed with that idea a few times.  If the Ukrane is untouched you can put a nice hurt on the Caucuses.  However, you get over-extended easily and the UK’s Indian Ocean Feet in the Med on UK1 feels like a knife at your throat.  US does Torch and odds are Germany’s gone from Africa forever if you pulled the Libya troops out on G1.  R2 is some sort of counterattack.  G2 has you either pressing your luck or switching to a defensive posture in hopes that Japan can win the game for you.

IMHO, it is both.

For the Axis, it is through Battle.  Time is against you, therefore you must knock out one of your enemies sooner rather than later.  When you fight, you must win.  The economy, while still important, is not as necessary as marching to Moscow or sailing to London.

For the Allies, it is through Economic Advantage.  You need to build up.  You need to coordinate.  Winning all your battles is not as important as the constant flow of troops and material to the front.

Back to the random dice generators.

They can be attacked if you know the algorithm and the seed, sort of like how you would go about cracking a password.

In theory, a program could be written that uses the algorithm and the seed that would allow you to influence the die results as it could “look” into the future or wait for a favorable instance then pull the trigger on the roll request to get the result.  You would never be guaranteed of getting a specific die result, but you could choose to get a certain percentage of "1"s or a percentage of results < 3.

While I am not a “Veteran” AAR player, I am a Computer Scientist and know a thing or two about this topic.

There is no such thing as a “random” number when it comes to computers.  The best we can do are “pseudo-random” numbers.  To achieve seemingly random results in a random number function, a seed is used.  Usually time, in some form.  Unix systems commonly use the system time in seconds from the epoch, 00:00:00 UTC on January 1, 1970.  It is entirely possible that the dice roll algorithm you use only uses the hours and minutes of the day.  If that were the case and you always asked for rolls at the same time each day, it is possible you would see the same results.  If this truly is the case, the fix is to alter the seed so it is not cyclical on hours and minutes.

Pseudo-randomness is not only limited to online dice rollers.

Scientifically, there are no such thing as “random” when it comes to real dice either.  The results you rolled were determined by the die type, orientation, momentum, angle, rotation, table surface characteristics, etc when you roll them.  Not chance.  It only appears to be chance because you have no way of calculating the numerous interactions during a roll.  I have even head of people being fairly good at picking up dice in a particular orientation and then consistently rolling the same result on a flat table.  They learn to control the angle, speed of their roll to minimize the interactions to a more predictable level.  This is why Casinos force you to throw past a line and hit the other wall while playing craps.  The distance and varied angles on the wall tremendously increase the needed skill, likely beyond anything humanly possible, to roll consistent results.

If I were playing in a tournament, I would be upset if I saw people picking up dice and rolling them with their bare hands.  To be fair, a good tournament would force people to use a cup with felt inside, die with sharp corners, and roll into a small box /w felt inside where the die will bounce of the sides and each other to increase the interactions.  The sharp corners on the die grab the felt (Chaos Theory in action) and cause the die to flip and bounce.

As a table-top RPG player, I can tell you that got to have several sets of die you like so you can switch to them if you are not rolling well with your favored set.  :-D

@ncscswitch:

I still win games with a 5 bid on occasion, but I have reached the point of feeling “safe” with bids of $7, and a reasonable chance to winning a bid with $8 or $9.  I even bid $12 in my DAAK Tournament Game (FIDA bid though) and won the Axis (and the game by default).

Please define the following:
“on occasion”
“feeling safe”
“reasonable chance”

The balance point should be where you win half the time with a particular bid.  Which one of the above phrases is closest to 50% win ratio?

In that 5-8 IPC range, how much of that range is influenced by the skill/desire of the player(s)?

That range is determined by the lowest bidder, not by what the players perceive the balance point is.  I believe there is a difference.  Lets say a skilled player believes he/she can win with the Axis with a bid of 6 but as the bidding process goes it stops at 8 because the other player is not willing to take 7, because they believe they cannot win as the Axis with 7 or they just want to play as the Allies or they want a challenge.  Therefore, the bid is 2 points above the first players perceived balance point and may or may not be below the other’s.

I would not be surprised if it was really at the lower end of that range.

Perhaps we should have a poll for this.  I did a few searches for “min bid axis” and “axis bid poll” but didn’t get any hits.  I’d be careful of the wording of the poll question.  You want to stress that they choose the bid value where they think it would be an even match if they played someone with the same skill as they have.  You may want to allow them to pick 2 or 3 values so they could give you a range.

Another option would be to do the cold, hard math and collect the statistics from the forums and other sources.  Record what the bid was and what the outcome was and do the various calculations like mean and mode or what have you.  By watching the percentage of axis wins at a bid value you should get an idea of where that balance point lies.  By focusing on the outcomes it should minimize the affect of a player’s desire for a challenge.

@Petrucci08:

So what do you guys use or have thought about?

Here are my thoughts*:

1.  I can see this.  Perhaps making a roll of 6 always miss since WWII jet technology was not infallible.  Besides, if you own the skies, why do you need Jets?

2. It will make subs useful, but it’s not realistic.  Aircraft patrols played havoc with U-boats.  From up high on a sunny day planes can see a submerged sub in the open ocean up to a certain depth.  I always thought that subs should get a +1 or +2 bonus to it’s first round of fire*. (possibly eliminate if an enemy destroyer is present)  That simulates the surprise element of the first attack, before the convoy goes on alert.  (ex:  First round they hit on 4 or less, subsequent rounds they hit on 2 or less)

3. Try implementing using a penny for a marker for the oil refinery.  Place like you would a factory during the set-up phase of the game.  Allow strategic bombing of the refinery?*  Allied bombing of German oil reserves was key.

4. Implement by laying the infantry piece on its side when you put it back on the board.  Stand it up at the beginning of that nations turn.

One of my own…  (NOTE:  I have not read any “enhanced realism” rules, please forgive me if I duplicate something.)  This one is all about trying to make SBR a feasable attack.  In A&AR, you just don’t do it because you have little to gain.  However, the Allies did it a lot and crippled the Axis wartime production and supply lines.  I was envisioning having some balance between a waste of time and overpowering.  This would replace #1 from above.

(5)  Allow fighters to act as Anti-Aircraft Guns.  Each fighter (or maybe just one*) gets one shot at each bomber that passes through it’s territory AND that bomber gets one shot at the fighter.  Flak was dangerous, but enemy fighters were deadly.

(5a) Allow fighter escorts on SBR.  Must have the range.  They get a shot at defending fighters AND defending fighters get a shot at them*.

(5b) SBRs that do full territory damage also destroys the factory*. (maybe half damage?*)  You have to up the ante to make SBR’s worth trying.  Would you trade a few bombers to keep them from building new units for a turn?

(5c) Make Bombers cheaper.  12 IPC?*  Adjust to balance the cost of benefit ratio for SBR.

• May require refinement after play testing.

@Bean:

The Japanese decided to be annoying, and they landed 2 inf in Alaska on J2 (which was vacant), and they guarded the transport with 2 battleships and a carrier (with 2 fighters).

Japan built a Battleship on J1?  Interesting. (SZ 37 BB cannot get to Alaska until J3)

If they just sit there and don’t build up, have the US ignore them but make sure you build in LA and march to E. Can via W. Can.  By J2, if the Allies do KGF there won’t be much of an Allied Pacific fleet, and all of the USAF will be in London or N. Africa.  All of that sitting off the North American coast can be VERY annoying.  I don’t believe losing your focus from the Europe shuck-shuck is worth it for just 2 IPC’s.  The J1 BB build means they didn’t buy a Factory or many other trans.  Russia should be just fine.

Also, if they waited to J3 and used the SZ 37 BB, then that meas the UK Indian Ocean fleet is alive.  If you still can, unify it with the Australian Sub and Trans. and go have fun with Japanese shipping.

@cyan:

dang, are we gona make baseall cards with em!?

Nothing should stop you from making your own.  If you were to do so, you would separate each Year as it’s own line and then doing a Career Total at the bottom.  Doing a “Ctrl-D” to “Fill Down” on the spreadsheet cells with forumlas will automatically correct for the row.  Then all you need to do is enter formulas for the bottom to add up the raw data, “Games” to “Total Battles Won as Axis”, you enter.  Enter this formula in the bottom row A “=SUM(A2:A10)” where A10 would be the last row of your chart.  Then select that cell and drag over to column J of that row.  Then do a  “Ctrl-R” to “Fill Right”.  That will auto-correct the formulas for each column.

@ncscswitch:

If you know HOW to do that, contact our site owner (DJensen) and see if he wants to do the data capture…

I’m a software engineer by trade, so I know how.  I don’t have a lot of free-time however.

A simple spreadsheet to track a single players stats would look like this:

Games	Games as Axis	Wins	Losses	Ties	Wins as Axis	Rounds Played	Total Battles	Total Battles as Axis	Total Battles Won	Total Battles Won as Axis	Win Percentage	Axis Win Percentage	Allied Win Percentage	Rounds per Game	Average Battles per Round	Battle Victory Percentage	Axis Battle Victory Percentage	Allied Battle Victory Percentage	Win Percentage plus Victory Percentage
											=C2/A2	=F2/B2	=(C2-F2)/(A2-B2)	=G2/A2	=H2/G2	=J2/H2	=K2/I2	=(J2-K2)/(H2-I2)	=L2+Q2

The names are all on one line separated by tabs, the next line has 11 tabs, then each formula is separated by a tab.  Paste this into notepad and save as stats.txt

Then open Excel.  Open a new workbook.  On the menu, go to Data –> Import External Data --> Import Data…
Navigate to the location of your .txt file.  At the bottom for “Files of Type:”, select “Text Files”.  Select “stats.txt” and then click on the “Open” button.
On the “Text Import Wizard”, click on “Delimited” and then click on the “Finish” button.  On the “Import Data” window, select “Existing Worksheet” and then click on the “Ok” button.

That should give you the working spreadsheet.  Feel free to do a little word wrap, centering, and other formatting to suit your tastes.  You only need to enter data up to “Total Battles Won as Axis”.  The rest of them will calculate themselves.  I have validated that copying the above code and pasting it into Notepad version 5.1 and then importing with Excel version 10.6834.6830 SP3 works.

UPDATE: correction for Allied Win Percentage