Posts made by Veqryn

When i first started playing revised, we would always buy factories in sikiang and india as allies.  But a smart Japanese player purchases a factory and a transport first turn, along with attacking China with everything, while landing your fighters where the factory is going.  Basically, you can make Japan’s life tough for about all of 2 turns, but after that Japan will get 2 free factories in great locations.

The best strategy i’ve found to counter Japan is to draw out all their forces along the long road to Russia, then when they get within one space of moscow or caucasus, crush them with Russian forces.  Basically, they will be so far away from Japanese Factories, and their moves so telegraphed ahead of time, that you can easily hold them off each turn as Russia for the rest of the game.  Russia can do this of course because their income will be 31 or more, because the allies are hitting Germany big time in the west and Africa.  (Move 6 russian infantry in buryatia first turn, and 4 uk inf into India first turn.  Second turn abandon bury for yakut, and if needed abandon India and Sikiang.  Then keep abandoning territories whenever you would lose overwhelmingly to Japan, but hold put if you think they can’t attack you yet, remembering that they have 7 fighters and a bomber.)

Can Hawaii be worth 2 ipcs so that we can put a minor factory there pretty pretty please

so basically, i could just have 1 blockhouse unit in the territory, nothing else…. and i could deal you 40 ipcs of damage…

you should make it stop throwing dice after a certain number of units, that will be an incentive to bring more than that number of units

have it stop firing after like 6 units

@Imperious:

Blockhouse does not move its defensive only. It makes alot of sence to have something that gives a sting against landing troops hitting 33% for 8 IPC. Its a great defense and the damage it does perfectly models the fear the allies had about landing against a properly built up defense. Germany never did complete this proper defense, but having this unit makes somebody think twice about a “raid” vs a real invasion and stops the idea of taking france 50 times a game just to collect income for both sides.

Plus how do you think the Maginot line is going to be represented? The Siegfried line?

i think it would do exactly the opposite of what you intend
instead of forcing the allies to attack with overwhelming forces, you are actually forcing them to either attack with as few as possible or not attack at all.
if i attacked with overwhelming forces of 10 tanks and 10 infantry, against say just 1 infantry and 1 blockhouse unit, then you would get to roll a 2 against all 20 of my land units, even though all you have is just 1 inf and 1 blockhouse.

how about this instead:
blockhouse units: after shorebombard fires a 2 out of 6 for each defending infantry, up to 4 times, during first round of combat only.  Any casualties still get their casualty shots just like ShoreBombarding.  (defender still gets to choose casualties, multiple blockhouses require additional defending infantry, ie: if the germans have 6 infantry and 2 blockhouses in france, then the blockhouses would fire a grand total of 6 times.  if you had 10 infantry and 2 blockhouses, the blockhouses would fire a grand total of 8 times)
my version is not dependent on the number of people attacking, and so if i attack with 2 tanks against a blockhouse being manned by 2 infantry, then you could wipe out my invasion force first round.  This gives me an incentive to bring more units, while your version gives me an incentive not to bring more units.
[the numbers could change, it could be a 1 out of 6 for the defense, or it could be 3 inf it gets paired with, or it could cost 10 ipcs, etc.  its the concept that is different]

I still disagree even with my version though, because i don’t think we need any more emphasis on defense than there already is.

good thoughts gnasape
you can make slightly suicidal attacks on all three of norway, western russia, and ukraine
or you can just attack norway and western russia with slightly less forces, while beefing up to defend the caucasus
or you can attack norway and do a full on attack on western russia, abandoning caucasus except for an AA gun to deny blitz

i do think it is hard on UK to lose the BB and Transport, but i would almost rather the Germans do that, risking losing their fighter in the process, than commit to such a low probability attack on norway.  However, i have included your possibilities in my new threat on Allied strategies.

Ideas for allied strategies:

Purchases 1 couple rounds:

1st Turn Russia: 3 inf, 3 tanks
2nd Turn Russia: buy at least 2 tanks per turn, i try to buy at least 3

1st Turn UK: 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, OR 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Infantry (save 1 ipc)
2nd Turnk UK: 1 Cruiser, plus whatever (depending on what germany buys, and where the german airforce is, and if the allies have destroyed any u-boats yet, you may need to buy a 2nd cruiser or destroyer. also, if germany destroyed your transports, than obviously you will need to buy some more)

1st Turn USA: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport (save 1 ipc) (build in Atlantic, and move Pacific fleet to Atlantic too)
2nd Turn USA: 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, 1 Transport, 1 Artillery, OR 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport, 1 Infantry, 1 Tank
3rd Turn USA: 1 Fighter, 2 Transports, 3 Infantry, 1 Tank

Moves:
(for all combat moves, i calculated with tripleA 1.0.3.4, and subtracted defender units left from the attacker units left)

Russia Combat:
WestRussia: attack with 8-9 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Tank with 99% chance of win, losing only 3.5 units (i generally do not leave any guys in Karelia, but it won’t kill you leave 1 guy there)
Ukraine: attack with 3 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, 2 fighters, with 96% chance of win with average of 4.8 units left
or
WestRussia:
Norway: attack with 3 inf, 1 tank, 2 fighters, with 87% chance of winning with average of 2.5 units left (abondon Karelia, except that you must land your fighter there, which means you will lose your fighter, or alternatively, take the moscow fighter as a casualty, leaving you with 1 fighter, 1 tank, and maybe 1 inf left)
or
WestRussia: attack with 6 inf, 1 art, with 63% chance of winning with 1.3 units left
Ukraine: attack with 3 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, with 64% chance of winning with average of 1.2 units left, OR attack with 3 inf, 1 art, 3 tanks, 1 fighter, with 85% chance of winning with average of 3 units left (you use up to 2 fighters in Karelia, and if using only 1 then the other goes to Ukraine)
Norway: attack with 3 inf, 1 tank, 2 fighters, with 87% chance of winning with average of 2.5 units left, OR attack with 3 inf, 1 tank, 1 fighter, with 59% chance of winning with average of 0.7 units left

Russian Non-Combat Moves:
Abandon Karelia
Yakut, Soviet Far East, and Buryatia all combine to stack 6 infantry in Buryatia.  You will move these out to Yakut on Russian turn 2 assuming they survive.
Russian Sub moves to SZ2
Kazakh moves to Caucasus
Novosibirsk and Evenki both move to Russia
optionally Moscow AA gun moves to WestRussia

Russia on turn 2 and later should go on the offensive.  Russia’s Goal should be to own Karelia, West Russia, BeloRussia, and Ukraine.

England combat:
Destroy German’s Baltic Transport and Destroyer
If setting up for a Landing in Algeria, move navy to SZ8
If not going to Algeria, take out Norway by moving navy to SZ 3
If Germany’s airforce is really out of position, you can do both by moving to SZ6
Assuming Germany took Egypt and has 2 tanks there, you can take it back by moving 2 infantry from India to Egypt, plus 1 inf from TransJordan, plus your India fleet Fighter, for a 85% btl with 2 units left.
OR you can move your england bomber plus india fleet fighter to SZ15 to kill the German BB and Transport, with 61% chance of killing both BB and Transport with bomber left, 20% chance of killing BB and losing both bomber and fighter and leaving a transport alive.
Optionally, move the Destroyer to SZ59 to kill the Japanese Transport
Optionally, if your bomber is not needed elsewhere, strat bomb Germany

UK Non-Combat:
abandon India, move into Persia
move whatever is left of UK india fleet to SZ33 or SZ34
Pick up an inf from Australia and another from New Zealand and move to SZ42
South Africa moves to Kenya/Rodesia and stays there for a while
Fighters move to where you will place your carrier.

UK wants to get a total of 4 transports off the coast of England, landing guys into Norway/Algeria/Karelia/EasternEurope/France/Germany.  They shouldn’t ever have more than 33 ipcs until much later in the game when winning, and will usually have less than 30 ipcs for the 2nd through 5th turns.  Therefore, I do not buy a factory with England in the first 5 turns.  Try to hold onto Egypt and Africa, try to hold up in Persia.  
Other ideas: Buy some bombers first turn instead of navy, and try to take out the german Med fleet.  The only problem with this is that they have to have somewhere to land, and usually Germany can deny you a landing zone by taking Egypt and Transjordan if they see you building all Bombers.

USA Combat:
Move Bomber to England
if UK moved fleet to SZ8, then move your fleet there too
if not, depending on German U-boats positions, keep your atlantic fleet in either SZ10, SZ9, or SZ1
Move Pacific Fleet and your submerged Hawaii Submarine if alive, to the Atlantic
Move your Central USA troops to the East Coast
Move your Western USA troops to Central USA
move your 2 fighters to SZ10 where you will be placing your carrier
move your hawaii fighter to central usa or eastern canada
move panama canal dd to SZ10
depending on what japanese forces are left in China, either stay in Sinkiang or move to Kazakh

Generally, for the first few rounds USA will be transporting into Algeria as this is the only place that is 2 moves away from Eastern USA.  USA wants to get a transport chain of between 8-12 transports moving units from Eastern USA to Algeria/Italy/Norway/France.  The transports will be protected by 1 strong fleet, until you have enough transports and fleet to divide them into 2 fleets, which means you can now hit Italy/France/Norway.

Other suggestions, possibilities, etc, for the allies?

thx,
Veqryn

Edit:

The 3 General Guidelines for the Allies to follow are:

Control Africa -> Yes, control most of it anyway.  Keep Germany to Algeria, Libya and Egypt but not any further or you will lose the game in the long run

SBR Germany -> Yes, but don’t waste all your money on bombers.  You can only do a maximum of 20 damage to Germany, and since they never repair it all the way, you can realistically only do 16 damage per turn to Germany.  This requires only 4-5 bombers total hitting Germany every round.  I would never buy more than 1 bomber per turn as the UK or USA because you ALSO need boots on the ground.

Take Norway, North Africa, Liberate Karelia, + Have a UK fleet in the Baltic and USA fleet in the Med -> This forces Germany to defend every territory in Europe, and it will have to spread its forces thin and can not continue to hit Russia if you are hitting it.  The UK can attack up to 4 territories EVERY turn in the North, while the USA can trade Italy with Germany every round, until Germany’s back breaks.  (The Baltic Sea touches Western Europe, Germany, Norway, Karelia, and Eastern Europe.  A fleet in SZ12 off Algeria can hit Western Europe and Southern Europe / Italy, while a fleet in SZ14 can also liberate Libya, Egypt, Transjordan, The Balkans, Ukraine, and the Caucasus.)

i considered this, and regardless of going norway or ukraine, russia should still buy 3 inf 3 tanks.

if russia attacks norway with 3inf, 1tank, 1 fighter, against german’s 3inf, 1fighter, russia has a 59% chance of winning BUT because there are such a small number of units involved there is a VERY HIGH Variability / Deviation, which means there is a very high chance that results will change wildly.  Since he will take the fighter as a casualty last, that means you are kind of screwed.

if russia bring the moscow fighter to the btl, they now have a 87% chance of winning, BUT that moscow fighter must land in Karelia this turn, which means it will die to a German attack the very next turn.

if you do not attack ukraine, but you do attack karelia, it means there is very good chance that you will lose either the Caucasus or if you left high value units in west russia then you might lose that.

it is definitely something to consider though.  I am currently rethinking what to do with the UK and USA fleets since you can no longer hit algeria first turn.

I’m not sure i like the idea of a blockhouse unit.  (assuming that it means a unit that fires on everyone during the first turn, like AA does).  It is much too powerful, and would ensure that people do not land there.
I like the slow move from defensive style gaming to more offensive styles:
including of Artillery as an effectively 3/2/2/4 unit when used properly
bombers reduced in price to 12
fighters reduced to price of 10
subs reduced in price to 6 and becoming a 2/1/2/6 unit
tanks becoming a 3/3/2/5 unit, which by increasing their defense by 1 meant that people would now actually buy them and thereby have more offensive punch in general from simply having more of them around (in AA classic, people bought close to 100% infantry)

I love the idea of a fighter bomber, effectively 4/3/4/11, when used properly, would give another option for offensive action at sea (and ground too).
I kind of like the idea of mech infantry as a 1/2/2/4 unit, which obviously would be built for offensive action to reach the front, but does not have the attack power to be much more than a hit soaker.  I would much more hope that there could be a 2/2/2/4 unit instead, or that the mech inf could bring art with them when coupled 1:1, or that since tanks are being increased to 3/3/2/6, we now need a 3/1/2/5 unit or something.

I disagree with the idea of purely offensive unit.  This game has too much defense already with infantry costing so little (their attack and defense rolls are perfect, but the fact that they cost 3ipc per hit point makes them the best unit in the game by far.  tanks will soon cost 6ipcs per hit point, which is horrible.  hit points are a stat that is not looked at enough)

Try these first turn buys as the Allies:

Russia: 3inf, 3 tanks
(Attack Western Russia, and optionally also Ukraine.  Be more aggressive, you can usually push Germany back pretty far, your income should never be lower than 26.)

UK: 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, OR 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 art, OR 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport (how many German planes are within reach determines which one you choose to go with)
(Either Setup for Operation Torch with USA, landing in Algeria, or alternatively, take Norway first turn, then help Russia through Karelia.  Build your navy in the same sz as where you Battleship ends up.  Make sure to Position your 2 fighters on the Carrier, and make sure there will be 2 fighters with it the whole game.  Build 1-2 more Cruiser/Destroyers the second turn just to make sure the Germans don’t attack you, however if you will be combining fleets with the USA there is no need to buy any more navy.)

USA: (build in Atlantic)
if combining fleets with UK: 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 2 Transports, 2 Infantry
if not combining, or wish to feel safer: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
(Either Setup for landing in Algeria, or Setup for landing somewhere in Europe.  I prefer Algeria in Revised, not sure yet on this version since you have to wait the first turn with america before landing anywhere.  If you will be landing in Algeria and wish to land in Italy later in the game, you will need split up your navy to keep the transport chain going, and therefore you will be bringing your submarine and battleship from the pacific over to the atlantic, they will both make it to sz12 on the third turn, which means on the second turn you should buy: 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, 1 Transport, 1 Artillery.  You will need a 4th Fighter for that Carrier, so on the 3rd turn buy: 1 fighter, 2 Transports, 3 infantry, 1 tank)

Both of the American fleets, and also the UK fleet, assumed to each be separate from each other, would survive an attack by 2 subs, 4 fighters, 1 bomber.
However, if the Germans position 6 fighters in France, 1 Bomber in Germany, and still have their 3 subs in range, then each of these fleets will die, taking out on average 5-6 German units with them.  However, it is very obvious when Germany consolidates their airforce to be within range of your navy, and therefore you can take preventative measures by either moving out of range, or combining fleets, or building more fleet.  Any time Germany commits their airforce to be within range of Allied boats, that means it is not within range of Russian territories, which is good for you anyway.  Germany can not afford to replace her airforce, while you can easily replace any single one of the above fleets.

try that out for size

• veq

in the one game i’ve played of 1942, the allies bombed germany all the way to 20 damage (the max, which is double the ipc value of the territory), and so for one turn i built 6 units in Italy instead of repairing.  (you aren’t required to repair)(of course, i had to land my airforce in germany and leave behind a good number of units too, or else they would have invaded…)

I convinced a friend who doesn’t have any copies of any A&A game (but enjoys them) to pick up AA1942 last night, and we had a go at it.
Since he had played AA50 once before, we didn’t have to read the rules.

Managed to play 7 full rounds in 4-5 hours, and while i am not sure how fast that is, it sure seemed fast, or at least a lot faster than aa50 (especially since this was our first time playing 1942, and he has never played revised so he spent a lot of time examining the board positions).

We flipped a coin and I got to be Axis.  I figured since I was a bit better player than him, I would buy some navy as Germany just as a waste of money since he refused to take a newbie bid.  I bought a med cruiser first turn, and a med destroyer the second turn.  This, plus the fact that he didn’t do operation torch til the third usa turn, made sure that I conquered Africa (although he never was in a position to kill my med BB and transport, so I guess it was completely un-needed)

As russia, he bought a lot of tanks, but used them conservatively for the first few turns.  First turn he only attacked west russia, and he left 6 infantry and his 2 fighters in Karelia.  I seized on the opportunity to kill Russia’s air force and hit Karelia with everything that would make it, I think it was 4 fighters, a bunch of infantry, and like 6 tanks or something.  While destroying his airforce was great, those defensive rolls on the fighters sure hurt me, and he slammed me with 7 tanks to take back karelia the next turn.  I took the opportunity to kill some Russian money by hitting his tanks back, but after that Germany was firmly on the defensive.
England Took norway the first turn, as well as destroying my puny baltic fleet.  The second turn they helped out Russia by taking karelia back for them.  The third turn they built a factory in Norway, and just in time too.
The new rules for submarines really helped out Germany in this game, since none of my submarines died until the 6th round.  I moved them all 3 to the sz under france.  When america moved their navy on the third turn to drop off in algeria, I attacked their navy back on the fourth turn with 3 subs and my destroyer.  Managed to roll well, only losing one sub and destroying america’s navy of 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer, and 2 transports.  It also happened that during the third turn I moved all 6 of Germany’s fighters to france, and the bomber to Berlin, so that on the fourth turn I also attacked the UK navy.  Because of the new rules on transports, I was able to really hurt him, sinking 2 battleships, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, and 2 transports.  He rolled well though, and i lost 4 of my fighters. 
America went about 50/50 pac/atl.  It actually benefited him a lot because he made it look like he was going 100% pacific.  Japan attacked hawaii with everything that could make it, which was unneeded, which meant i lost a Battleship and Cruiser the next turn to America.  The UK moved their fleet to the Suez, meaning that Japan’s navy had to chase them there, leaving them way out of position to help in the fight with america.  Because of this, Japan started building about 70/30 navy/army.  Japan also put down a factory in FrenchIndoChina, as well as buying 2 transports the first turn, which ended up being about 1 too many transports.  By the 5th turn, Japan’s Suez fleet had made it back to the Carolines, and I was able to wipe out the American fleet, losing only my 3 submarines.  However, America had switched to building bombers for a couple turns, so it really felt like I had wasted way too much money on Jap fleet.  Because of the little money I was spending on army, and that I was dropping off and producing guys in FrenchIndoChina, meant that Siberia remained untouched.  I kept a minimal force in Sikang, but sent most of my guys to Persia, where I was able to take Caucasus from the Russians on the 5th.  Russia took it back the next turn, and then took Persia the very turn after, but I redoubled my efforts with the Japanese army after the American navy was destroyed.  I even managed to push into Siberia. 
By the end of the 7th turn, Japan was making 42 a turn, with 4 transports, and 2 factories, in India and FrenchIndoChina.  Germany had all of Africa, and so was making about 38 a turn, but was also spending around 15 per turn on repairing damaged factories in Italy and Berlin.  Russia never made less than 24 per turn the entire game, and was making 31 per turn for a long time, but they were about to start making less than 24 as the UK accidentally took over some German territories that normally go to Russia, and Japan pushed Siberia.  The UK dropped below 20 for a turn or two, but Germany let them take some German territory in the East, hoping that it was better for Germany for those to go to the UK than Russia, and so by the end UK was back up just under 30 again.  USA remained at 38-40 for most of the game.
In the end, we projected that the Axis would win, but that it would take another 4 turns minimum to actually see it.  The main reason being that Germany was firmly in control of Africa, with 7 units total on the continent, while America was rebuilding atlantic fleet and did not have the transports to take it back.  Japan would also have a med fleet in 3 turns.  Despite an effective German income of around 23, they had enough infantry to hold on and even push Russia back into Belorussia and the Caucasus.

Overall, a great game.  We never had any problems with wacky dice the entire game.  Even when someone rolled good or badly, it wasn’t so good or so bad that it ruined anything, while anytime someone rolled well, they would roll badly later.  My only complaint was that despite about 20 strategic bombing raids on Germany, my AA never hit a damned thing the entire game.

another territory question
the sz to the north east of UK and north west of Norway…. does it touch the UK?  I think it does, but the map sure looks like it could go either way.

@Twigley:

@Imperious:

I prefer france split like that picture. Make the coastal zones worth next to nothing and the invasion will have to be a real deal rather than 20 various probing fake invasions just to hijack IPC.

Wow. Obvious but true. I’ve always hated that about western europe in revised/original (and now AA42). So easy once Germany is on the ropes in the east for the UK to just nip in - snatch 6 IPCs and run!

and for Germany to just snatch it back, get 6 ipcs, and run too

i’ve played a few games in AA50 with NOs where Germany would leave france completely undefended each turn starting on the first turn, so that they could send more units east to the russian front.
Actually, that gets me curious.  When this game comes out, I’ll have to try being the Axis and not attacking France in favor of more units hitting moscow.  Or just taking Paris, and only then going for moscow, while ignoring the other french territories that can’t be taken for free.

I still think that 6 and 5 are too many
At most 4, but 3 is better.
Also, i do think that paris should be taken on the first turn, this is 1940 after all.
Here is my second map

why should france have more territories than germany?

So, in AA50, one of the great things was that the road to russia from siberia and from china was expanded to take japan many many turns, BUT the road through india was not expanded by much (just burma).  This became the best Japanese strategy, after subduing China, and taking some Russian northern territories just to deny income and force a standoff, the main thrust of Japanese units would come out of India.  this was helped by the fact that Japanese transports could drop off in French-Indo-China-Thailand, and there could be 3 factories, in Thailand, Burma, and India too. 
It looks like Larry finally got it right with this one.  China is huge, providing Japan with a great income boost, but also slowing them down, and giving them a very long path to Russia.  The path through India looks like it just got bigger by one or two more territories, plus Japanese transports can’t go directly from Japan to Indo-China in 1 turn (2 turns to get to that territory beside Burma), AND while there is still the opportunity for 3 factories, the factories in Malaya and Indo-China are seperated by 2 territories before they get to India (however, if japan gets to india, they could put down one of those 10 producing factories… so this might all be for nothing).  This is a massive improvement in my opinion, though I am very concerned about the fact that there are 3 ipc territories down there (he could break up india into a northern and southern india, that way there don’t have to be places for japanese big factories). 
This means that the major push to Russia (if there will be any), will come from Japan and Manchuria, pushing through 5 single ipc russian territories on the north, thereby getting to moscow in 6 turns, which is the same as AA50.  This is good because in those 5 territories, none of them can host a factory, and none of them hurt russia or help japan too much.

Last but not least, will Chinese infantry cost 2 ipcs or 3 ipcs?  Judging from the map, so long as Japan doesn’t get ridiculous numbers of fighters, allowing them to hit Yunnan first turn, the Burma road will fall on turn 2.  So do not count on that 6 ipc extra income for longer than 1 or max 2 turns (assuming china going after Japan, an attack on yunnan turn 2 for japan would mean only 1 turn of burma road income for china).

@Emperor_Taiki:

Starting IPC count

Austrailia: 9
Canada: 2
China: 10 (+6 burma road)
French: 2
Japan: 26
Netherlands: 11
Soviet Union: 9
United Kingdom: 18
United States: 17/57

Ok, so does that mean this is a 9 player game?  just kidding, but i should would hate to be canada or france.
How does it break down though, are some of these players neutral?  Which ones?
Is it like a 3 player game then,
Japan
USA
China + UK + USSR + Netherlands + French + Australian + Canada
?

Also, when exactly does the USA get to enter the war?  Is it only when Japan attacks them?  If that was so, I would wait as Japan until I had conquered everyone else.  Is it like a turn limit, example: turn 3 unless Japan attacks you before then?

Lastly
I seem to get the feeling from some of the conversations here that you can combine this AA Pacific, with AA Europe, and thereby play the entire world?  True?

@tekkyy:

various styles of distortions exist for practicality

the territories and sea zones look awkward on a real map

I once drew the revised map over a real map
unfortunately such maps may only be practical for game boards larger than A0

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=10999.30

Nice map
I’d rather have funny looking sea zones than funny looking continents.

Confused:
I thought A&A Europe would be a map of just the European Theater and would not include the Pacific Theater.
And I thought A&A Pacific would just be a war in the Pacific, no Europe or atlantic or africa etc.

why is this a map of the world?

it entirely depends on if you are doing NOs or not (and also slightly depends on 1941 or 1942)