Posts made by Vareel

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Hello, I wished to examine the economic value in a J1 attack because I was curious, bored, and wanted to share.  This J1 attack is assumed to hit Kwangtung, Philippines, and Celebs, along with sinking transport at pearl, UK bb/transports, and ANZAC dd/transport.  To me, this seems to be the most economical J1.

By attacking J1 you give the US a 40 IPC boost, so the desire is to offset this with your gains.  With the J1 attack you cost the allies in income:

US
7 (island/NO)

UK
8 (Kwang/NO)
4 (DEI landing)

ANZAC
5 (assuming UK grabs there NO with a transport on UK1)
–---------
24 IPCs

As Japan you gain 8 IPCs that not attacking J1 you would not have gotten
32 IPC swing.

Now you also manage to kill some valuable allied units that would have escaped.  Now the only units that you can kill on J1 that you should not be able to get at on J2 anyway would be the US transport and US bomber/fighter at Phi, along with possibly the ANZAC destroyer/transport which you should be in range of anyway on J2 depending.  So we’ll just take the US units, worth 29 IPCs.

32 + 29 = 61.  So you are ahead by 21 IPC in value compared to not attacking.

Now the downside, and there is always a downside.  You have terrible positioning against China at this point forcing you to build mainland factories, little to no threat against Pearl allowing the US starting fleet to get into action right away, your bombers are exposed sitting at Siam to UK airpower, and you are likely to get diced in one of your battles and loose.  But I think the biggest thing is that, atleast in my opinion, the US IPCs are the most valuable for the allies.  They are the only ones who can truely go toe to toe in the DEI area with Japan.  Even if UK gets 29 IPCs on turn 1 it is an annoyance, but they cannot truly compete with Japan.  By waiting a turn or two to strike with Japan, you buy yourself a turn or two before the US can do anything substantial.

Any thoughts?

@Uncle_Joe:

Well, I guess if Japan devotes her whole opening towards taking and holding Hawaii you probably arent going to stop it. But as the Allies I dont think I’m really that worried about that opening. I think not taking PI and the DEI and hitting the Brits HARD is a terrible mistake. 90% of the Ami money is untouchable due to the massive NO bonus so you really arent taking away Allied money by being over there. And you really dont have a serious chance of taking out the US West Coast so that means you have to standoff the ever increasing US presence in their own front yard (to which I see little to no appeal).

Actually, a Japan feint with carriers at Pearl is a great idea IMHO.  Just park 2 carriers next door, like SZ 31 and have enough planes/subs/DDs in range.  If the US fortifies, smash there fleet using mostly planes.  This knocks the US back for a few turns.  If they don’t, take it and fortify it with carriers and planes if you can.

Using 2 carriers, your subs, a pair of DDs, and some planes for this purpose still leaves you with 2 BBs, another carrier, pair of cruisers, etc, to lock down the DEI area with.  You’ll loose a few transports but thats gonna happen no matter what.

See, I personally feel no change at all in the game balance with this rule.  Italy should not be attacking russia with her navy anyway.  Italy should be taking as much as africa as she can, for as long as she can, and fortifying the daylights out of France, along with possibly sinking some allied boats and/or shooting down some allied planes.  The largest contribution they can make against Russia is a tank or two to East Poland and freeing up Germany Infantry from france.

I agree, as should Germany be able to somehow in the baltic.

I’m curious to see how much of a PITA malta is to Italy with an airbase upon it, probably 2 or 3 INF, and like 4 fighters.  That will be a tough nut to crack.

@maverick_76:

I kinda doubt that LH will incorporate rail movement, only way I could see this happening is to extend movement of a unit, kind of how naval bases and air bases work. Maybe if the unit is in Berlin it can move one more space than normally to simulate the rail system in Europe. But that is all I can think of that will really be feasible in this game.

Simple make a railyard cardboard piece.  As long as the territories are connected and have this piece units may move from one end to the other during NCM.

First off, you shouldn’t buy that much armor as germany.  Infantry will win you the game, lots and lots of infantry.

Secondly, with the UK running an IC in India, defending there transports in the atlantic will be alot more difficult.  Try purchasing a bomber a round with germany and keep the allied navies in the atlantic honest.

Third, against an India IC with Japan try to focus more on transports at first instead of mainland factories.  Getting a high unit count into asia will be the most important thing, and transports are more effective at doing that than factories.

Lastly, try a G1 attack on Egypt.  Take your bomber, use your med transport and take an extra inf and armor, and your Libyan troops.  You can even take 1 extra fighter in or use it against the UK destroyer there.  Even if you don’t win retreat your plane(s) and smile because you just killed alot of UK troops.

Honestly, it sounds like you got too impatient with Germany and tried to force yourself into Russia.  Take your time, build up your Inf and your airpower, give Japan a bit of time to smash that India factory, then crush Russia.  You should build atleast 2 inf per armor, I actually prefer about a 4-1-1 ratio of Infantry, Artillery, and Armor, as do most.

@MaherC:

agreed.  not sure how your j1 open is different from the one I posted and was flammed and negative karma’d into the ground over a few weeks ago, but glad to see someone else is getting harassed on the boards by people who slurp at the teet of WOTC too much to realize how unbalanced the game is.

Yup, just like russia cannot survive against an all tank every turn purchase from germany in aa50 '41 scenario.

Oh wait, that is considered suicide for the axis in that game now  :-D

I guess I should add to that, the US fleet at Pearl should move at it’s earliest convince to Iwo Jima and/or Okinawa.  I also think a real US drop on Kiangsu would be helpful.  It sure would be a pain for Japan to re-kill all those china-men  :-D

I guess the big thing I’m saying, is just how much US force does it take to keep the DEI out of japan hands with ANZAC’s help?  Especially considering that bombers can make it to Queensland in one turn, while the DEI is two turns away from Japan mainland.

But you are correct, Japan income goes threw the roof very quickly, to the point where she can afford to purchase new stuff to keep the US at bay while using the starting stuff to smash everyone else.

As japan facing that situation, I’d move my primary fleet with its 2-3 transports that I started with into SZ 36, then on J2 to SZ 37 off of Malaya or SZ 41 to threaten an India crush.  My purchased transports on J2 would go down to SZ 35, next to Philippines.  From those two SZ I can hit all of DEI, Kwangtung, and Philippines, and send there blockers to the bottom of the sea with planes.  Also, on J2 I would purchase a factory and/or navy to threaten Pearl with.  They can block boats all day, but loaded ACs are unblock able  :evil:

One thing i’ve been toying with is a split US focus.

I would send mostly planes with a handful of subs down south, basing out of Queensland.  Mostly your typical Bmrs.  Then I would keep my main fleet near Pearl.

This would allow me to can opener and/or help turn the DEI into a ship graveyard allowing ANZAC to do the actual island trading, while the US fleet threatens in the north.  Not too sure how well it would work though as you need to keep Japan from holding DEI and I’m not sure US planes alone can do that even with ANZAC help.

1. Turn order that eliminates the Italy/Germany can opener tactic on Russia
2. Large enough border between G/R where germany cannot threaten all 3 russian factories from 1 territory
3. German factory that can build boats into the med
4. At least 2 SZs, preferably 3, between British isles and Karelia
5. At least 1, preferably 2, territories between Axis main factories and the beaches in France.

One thing I find very interesting is the problem of how to play a good UK in this game.  The big problem is this game revolves primarily around income.  And the UK needs boats to get and protect its income.  The big money for the UK is in DEI and Malaya.  On top of that there is a convoy zone both next to Malaya and India.  If the UK does not have boats to protect these she will be down to 2-4 IPCs within a handful of turns.  But, she is also the only one who can challenge Japan on mainland Asia, and she has no chance at all to win in a naval race with Japan.

So I ask you, for the UK, boots on the ground or boats in the sea?  And why?  To me the easy answer is boots on the ground to slow down japan, but it appears the real answer is boats in the sea so you have some stinking income!

The other thing I like about this is you have a choice between fast and slow.

Lets take HBs for example.  Say i’m germany and I see the US go for HBs on turn 1 with 3 researchers.  He will get it pretty quickly, so I put one researcher on Radar and one on Improved Industry.  Now he will get HBs before I get my ‘counter techs’, but within 2 turns of him getting them, I should have one or both of my counter techs.

The only tech that fails in this system is war bonds.  If it is too cheap everyone will want it for the money boost, too expensive and no one will want it.

This is really simple, if your ship starts out in a sea zone adjacent to a friendly naval base and is damaged during your repair phase, right before the purchase phase, then it becomes repaired.  So yes it would get repaired.

Its the UK I feel bad for, by turn 3 or 4 they are down to 2-4 IPCs a turn, esp with Jap subs next to India.

Or, the US just gains the 40 IPC for being at war, period.

Granted that would suck, I want a US that makes over 100 lol.

Nice razor, very nice.  That would be a perfect turn order.

Nope, 10.

yeah but it only takes 1 or 2 tanks to threaten a can opener, if turn order lets italy go before germany in relation to russia’s turn, we will have a problem.