Posts made by Van_Trump

Well, Kat, here is the dilemma:

If you allow Japan to take Hawaii, the following turn Japan swings down to Australia.
Add up the victory cities: 2 starting cities, Phillipines, Hong Kong + Hawaii = 5 total.
Sydney is 6. No need to slog through to India.

If you surrender Hawaii on J2, Japan could conceivably win the game outright on J4.
J3 fresh troops from Japan land on Hawaii. New Zealand falls. Don’t forget Australia does not get to scramble fighters because they are considered a continent, not an island.
Third CV returns to Phillipines to help with ANZAC attack.
J4 fresh troops arrive in Hawaii; existing troops shuttled to Queensland or New Zealand, depending where ANZAC defends.
At best Sydney holds out until J5.
As Japan I could send out DD screens to delay US counterattack.
Also, if Hawaii falls on J2, virtually every fighter in Asia I have will be in Hawaii by J4.
The scrambling rules allow ALL fighters to defend sea zone around Hawaii.

Kat

Many of the strategies outlined take too long.
If Japan is actually giving the allies that much time you’re probably better off building an unassailable US fleet (Massive buys of SS’s and DD’s). That way the IJN has to dodge you, not the other way around.

At that point you can base transports + ground troops out of Midway (build naval base there) and threaten Japan every turn.

Of course, the Japanese strategy outlined in this thread has Japan taking Midway J1. A J1 attack is very tough to counter.

What would you do as US with most of the Japanese fleet at Midway on turn 1?

I suspect the playtesters completely missed the Bombers + fighter attack on the UK BB + transports; as well as this crushing Midway invasion J1.
I mean, what was the point of placing both transports in Singapore? It just teases the UK player. At least put one of the transports next to India.
Maybe they thought the IPC boost to USA would be enough of a deterrent and didn’t worry about the consequences of a J1.

So I move a tank/mech inf to Alaska US1. Defend Hawaii with everything I’ve got. Build 2 DD’s.
Hopefully ANZAC can spare some fighters. If all ANZ fighters are there I move the US fleet to Hawaii.
On US2 where do I move the fleet if Japan moves Bombers back to Japan on 2?

It may be the only way to balance the game is to ban a J1 attack. It has the advantage of simplicity.

As far as USA turn 1 response goes, at a minimum the bombers can max damage the airbase on Midway.
Builds depend on whether or not ANZAC fighters get moved to Hawaii.
I can’t think of a better build on US 1 than the default 2 DD’s. If Fleet is moving to Hawaii no need to buy CV since the fighters can scramble.

If J2 move 3 loaded transports to Midway + Naval base build, US MUST buy ground defense.
At end of J2 with the Tac Bombers in Midway and regular Bombers in Japan situation in Hawaii touch and go. The one trans in Midway can move the inf to Alaska to set up landing zone and create additional distraction for US.

It just seems to get worse and worse. It reminds me of having a winning position in Chess. You have tons of options and everything seems to work perfectly in concert. The poor player in the losing position is forced to make one perfect defensive move after another; a single misstep ends the game.

I agree that a J2 capture of Hawaii is a stretch; impossible if ANZAC moves their fighters there.
On J2 does japan build more transports in addition to the naval base on Midway?
The Anzac fighters scrambling ability means the US could conceivably move the fleet to Hawaii, even with Tac Bombers reaching from Japan. Jap regular bombers are helping out on mainland; they certainly would be useful against the US fleet (based out of Midway).

This J strategy certainly brings out the full paranoia of invasion that existed historically in the USA after Pearl.
Great that a game can emulate reality.

The whole point of this strategy is Japan does not have to go after India. Hawaii + Sydney wins the game.
Given this emphasis it certainly makes sense to retreat the bombers to Japan J2, unless the tactical opportunity exists to destroy some UK fighters stacked in Yunnan.

Can Japan build up enough of an invasion force to take Hawaii before US can build up fleet to threaten Japanese naval supremacy? US has to waste one turn building ground troops in Western US.

Japan can send DD screens from Midway if necessary.

UK’s transports are gone. The money islands are in Japanese hands by the end of J3. UK’s miniscule builds are no threat. China has to pray to the dice gods to have a chance.

Game is definitely tilted in Japan’s favor. Japan can survive making mistakes. The allies cannot.

btw Midway is tiny, as in 2 square miles total area.
http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/state/midwayislands.html

@kaufschtick:

In another thread I started here recently, one of the people who replied outlined a brief J1 attack, in which:

*The Japanese took their transport from the Caroline Islands to take Midway on J1.
*They also took a sub to Pearl on J1 to sink the transport there.
*They take out the ANZAC sub, and take two transports to the PI with a small fleet of 1 CV, 1 CA & 1DD.
*The British BB & transports get attacked by, I think it was 3 bombers and a fighter.
*The rest of the Japanese fleet goes to Midway.

The reason for this particular J1 move was in response to the US being able to build a naval base on either Wake or Midway early in the game, even as early as US1.

The best response I can come up with right now is for the US to build 2 transports on US1, and hold the fleet on the West Coast with 2 fighters on the CV. All other us Air & the ANZAC air go to Pearl. If the Japanese are massing for a J3 attack, then the US fleet can move to Pearl on US2 and bring all the troops from the US and land the CV air groups on Pearl?

Hello again.
Great to see this strategy revisited. Japan has more than enough materiel to walk over China even with this diversion of resources to the US. And I don’t mean using unescorted fighters against Chinese infantry.
UK dares not stack his fighters in China to keep Burma road open because they will be easily wiped out. The whole point of this strategy is India does not need to be taken for victory.

The problem I see with your response is if J2 sees the Naval base build in Midway, the IJN can reach the US west coast. This threat forces US to build defenders on Western US. Also, the US Fleet better not stick around San Francisco or they’ll end up on the bottom of San Francisco Bay.

Next time I play Japan we will be trying the “no new industries” rule for game balance.

Well, I tried US NB on Midway.
Jap player reinforced Japan heavily with builds on turn and moved BBs to defend sea zone. Then he built 3 new carriers and landed planes on them. US took Truk but was overwhelmed by counter attack 2 turns later.
By turn 7 he had 3 industries ( he built 3rd because US took one, temporarily, striking from Truk and burning the Tanks just produced.) on mainland and game was over. India never fell but was inevitable with Japanese production. Hawaii and Sydney were more vulnerable anyway.

Bottom line: Japan can build tanks on mainland to replace planes he moved to sea (landing on newly built Carriers).

So Japan can effectively build a loaded carrier for the cost of a carrier + 2 tanks. Japan starts with a surplus of planes he doesn’t need on mainland. The abilility to build tanks on mainland close to front line is unbalancing because it happens too quickly.

This loaded CV discount cannot be overcome when the US is earning roughly the same amount of $. Japan easily out produces the Americans.

Will try house rules of no new Industries on mainland for Japan next time. (as mentioned in “core problem” thread)

If you want to be historically accurate, what if Chinese infantry are cheaper, say 2 ipcs each. They certainly have the population.

I thought about this as a possible game balance when I first saw the dominant Japanese intitial set up.

In that instance Japan probably doesn’t attack the Allies until J3 at the earliest. Getting rid of the Chinese just too important.

If I’m Japan I lick my lips at the prospect of being able to pick off Allied fighters without inf support.
Don’t forget four Jap bombers + one loaded CV in area.
J2, troops in PI get moved to money islands. Since PI has NB, transports can pick up troops in HongKong and still reach money islands. So each transport is carrying 1 inf + art or armor. Together with air support it makes going after the money islands even juicier.

So if I’m UK or ANZAC player I DO NOT reinf Dutch East Indies with my fighters.

Japanese fighters can scramble from Japan even if amphibious assault is on Korea. So USA needs plenty of escorts.

If Japan takes Hawaii and then shifts forces to Australia make sure Japan has plenty of DD’s to screen potential US attacks on Hawaii.

I am pretty sure Hawaii can be held by US. It’s the dual threat of US invasion and Hawaii attack from Midway (after naval base has been built) that makes this so nasty for Japan. It’s a given US will be spending at least one turn building defenders for Western US.

Also, if US is foolish enough to move fleet to Hawaii, 4 Tac bombers from japan can reach (to go with 4 fighters on the CVs).

The irony is I had thought I had discovered a great strategy for USA, building a NB on Midway…

Even nastier than Wake is Midway. I was planning to use the Midway naval base when I play usa this Saturday.

With a base in Midway Japan has to keep a huge number of troops stationed in Japan. It’s just too easy for the USA to get into the sea of Japan from Midway.

Then I thought about Japanese counters…OOPS

This threat forces Japan into a very aggressive counter on J1.
Take PI with 2 transports (2 inf 1 art 1 tank) from home fleet + cv from Truk (planes in land battle) + okinawa fleet.
Eliminate UK BB with 3 Bmb + Formosa fighter as usual.
Kill New Britain sub with DD
Kill Hawaii Tr with SS

Take Kwantung, etc… with troops and planes on continent + additional planes from Japan

And then…

Use Truk Trans + 1 inf to take Midway. Also move ENTIRE Japanese home fleet + Truk BB to midway. Put 4 fighters on the 2 cvs for defense. Make sure you have 4 Tac Bomb in Japan.

Build 3 transports + tank and move Manchuria art to Korea.

Now what is US to do? If he attacks Midway fleet it is likely to be mutual wipeout with at least 2 dmged Japanese BB’s surviving. (Dont forget CVs have 2 hits, defend on 2 and fighters can land on Midway)
Can US hold Hawaii? He can if all 4 ANZAC fighters reinf Hawaii.

What if Japan builds a naval base on Midway and now threatens Western US and/or Alaska/BC?

The cost of this variant is that Malaya does not fall on J2. It takes some pressure off India.
After building an Industrial Complex on J2 (FIC?) the pressure is back on. Japan still has  loaded CV, CA, DD and SS to protect Transports from UK fleet (such as it is) or planes (out of range)  as they take the money islands. Dont forget all 4 japanese bombers are in the vicinity as well.

Realize that IF Hawaii falls and is reinforced with Jap fighters Japan doesnt need to take India for 6 cities. Japan just needs Sydney which is conveniently nearby and underdefended.

On J2 (after a J1 attack) I send two thirds of the IJN to Truk, so USA has to build up their fleet before venturing out.

Having said that the naval base on Wake is an excellent move.
Instead of one japanese DD needed to block attacks on Japan or the mainland Japan now needs 3 DD’s.

I’ll have to try the J1 attack without invading the phillipines until J2 (still taking out the navy of course)
Gives an extra 7 ipcs to the usa, though.

If Japan has to spend $ on fleet to counter USA and troops on mainland Asia Allies are probably winning.

Japan has to eliminate UK quickly so it can concentrate on USA. Defeat your enemies in echelon.

Going for ANZAC is a deadend. The IPC’s are just not worth it and your forces are now out of position to counter the other Allies moves.

Safest strategy for Japan is take India first then position forces on Truk so you threaten Queensland and Hawaii simultaneously.

Then again, I strongly advocate a J1 attack. Maybe someone has a more optimal strategy for a J3 attack.

Think of UK in this game as you would Russia in the original game.

On turn 1 you should start building your defensive infantry stack.

Continue to build infantry until the Americans come to the rescue.

Hopefully you can survive that long. After a J1 attack the future looks bleak for UK.

Well, I received my tac bombers and battle strip today. I guess took a bit longer to send to Toronto, Canada.

Envelope was big enough that pieces were undamaged and battlestrip unbent. Too bad I already printed out a superior battleboard from this site.

@Imperious:

Then hire Midgets to move the pieces for you. You just sit in your chair and tell them what to do. Problem solved.

Even better, hire some midgets to dress up as pieces have them play the game in a swimming pool.

If the game lasts beyond a few turns (say, 4-5 turns after the declaration of war), Japan has probably lost.

A lot of the winning US strategies posted take a long time to implement. They only work against a slow Japanese player.
Japan should be cleaning up in Asia and UK down to 5-8 IPC’s per turn, with India living on borrowed time.

USA has to get into the game FAST. THis means an unassailable fleet that rules the Pacific. Hawaii sea zone occupied and reinforced ASAP (assuming Japan goes after UK first)

Assuming a J1 attack, US builds should be:
US1: CV
US2: DDs/Subs (~equal numbers of both)
US3:DDs/Subs/2-3 Transports (plus enough ground units to carry)
US4:DDs/Subs (+ additional Transports/ground troops as needed) <–- repeat for rest of game.

There are tactical considerations. If US needs to build additional fighters to send to ANZAC (because ANZAC has correctly reinforced India with all their own fighters) then by all means build extra fighters. If USA has the time to reinforce India with fighters then do so. If Japan stops crushing China to build up its fleet then by all means build a 3rd CV.

If US reaches a point where they can afford such luxury builds as CA’s or loaded carriers the momentum has turned. As soon as US starts to implement island hopping strategy without fear of the IJN the game is over IMHO.

Well this has the advantage of speed, which is exactly what US needs after a J1 attack.

Is this a better strategy to use against Truk fleet, rather than massing DDs and subs?

UK or Japan.

Same reason as I preferred Germany or USSR in the original game.
Right in the heat of things.