Posts made by Van_Trump

Well, I started a game using the set up changes (-fighter, Tac, Bomb Japan, -Bomb Manch, total 5 inf added to China, UK transports moved to India, NSW naval base) and I have to say the game looks very very good for the allies.

Japan did not attack J1, DEI got snapped up by UK + ANZAC and Japan was forced to attack J2.

Japan decided to move fleet down to DEI territory. Even managed to take Queensland with India very tenuously held.

UK made its stand in Sumatra with fighters/AB so no NO for Japan. USA built up invasion fleet and by turn 3 had them stationed in Midway (with NB, my personal favorite allied build).

Japan forced to retreat fighters to Japan but could not stop US Korea landing.

Stopped the game at that point: Overall the change that had the most effect was moving the transports to India.

The China reinforcement seemed a bit of an overkill.
Having DEI in allied hands by the end of turn 1 was a huge boost for the allies.

Japan rapidly falls behind in income. Very, very tough to make it back.

Well, if this J3 India crush works after J2 attack this is huge.

Can’t UK just spread out their ships UK 2 to block J3 attack? Attacking any Japanese blockers with ships and planes?

You may not build factories on islands.

Great job Whackamatt!

This definitely needs study.

At first glance I would block US with DD so Japan doesn’t have to worry about invasion US2.
On J2 Japan builds SS’s and 1 DD, or maybe all SS’s.

I would still hit Java fighter stack (pick up 1inf from FIC, 1 survivor from Hong Kong)
Hit Yunnan stack with every plane in range (except for planes on CV’s hitting Java) + whatever ground troops available (maybe 2 available, 1 from FIC, 1 from Hunan).

UK Stack worrisome, but without fighters toothless dog. Don’t forget 3 loaded TT’s landing in FIC J2. If UK stacks with China in Hunan turn 2, Japan goes in with everything again J3.

As far as Japan not having enough ground troops in China, by J3 Manchuria stack has now reached Kweichow.

Still have to figure out logistics of non-CV ships (how many to send to Java, how many to send to TRUK/PI/Japan) Also need to figure out if TRUK can in fact be held or if need to set up for counter attack.

btw, last game I played the Allies commented on how much more convenient it would be if UK went before China.

Understand, both Kaufschtick and myself really, really would like this to work for the allies.

I really appreciate any allied strategy input.

Thanks Kungfu and Whackamatt

I agree that this gives the allies a lot of flexibility with the final disposition of the their fighters, IF Japan does not take them out.

In the games I have played, whenever the allies squander their fighters the game is over.
The US cannot defeat Japan on its own. If Japan can ignore UK, just whittle down the British IPC territories, it means Japan can concentrate on naval builds.
Once UK loses its fighters, they’re never going to be rebuilt.

3 loaded transports empty themselves into FIC J2.
The Manchuria stack continues to move closer to the front lines.
Japan has nothing to fear from China, as long as Japan doesn’t do anything foolish like attacking inf with just fighters.
btw, Japan will not miss those fighters, if they took out all the UK/ANZAC air.

Whenever US takes TRUK, wouldn’t it be nice to have 4 ANZAC fighters as reinforcements (with their ability to scramble)?

Without those fighters, US has to take 2 extra turns of naval builds to make sure capturing TRUK isn’t suicide.

Losing your fighters in this fashion assures the Japanese victory. It is true Japan has temporarily moved their fleet out of position. And the crushing of UK/China will be delayed.

But strategically, the fact Japan does not have to worry about those fighters is a huge advantage. So what if UK and China take longer to fall? Fall they will. Meanwhile, Japan’s 90-100% Naval builds are easily holding off the Americans.

In fact, Japan may not have to build a factory on the mainland at all, because there is no urgency to destroy UK/China. You have reduced the allies to a one front war.

By my calculations the Java battle gives the Allies 6 hits 1st round vs 5 hits for Japan.
Japan loses 1’s and 2’s; Allies lose fighters. Unless the allies get lucky round 1, round 2 has Japan with a decided advantage. This assumes Japan doesn’t get lucky. They are rolling more dice after all.

Is there something I’m missing here? Whenever UK offers it’s planes up on a silver platter I take the bait. Now you’re offering up ANZAC fighters as well?

If Japan loses 3 fighters, 3 Tac to take out that fighter stack that’s a win for Japan. Japan is always to trade fighters with UK 1:1. Even if allies survive with 1 or 2 fighters it’s a win for Japan.

Once UK fighters are gone they have eliminated themselves as a threat.

This is a recipe for disaster for the allies. And that’s putting it diplomatically.

Assuming Japan is being played by a brain-dead zombie, and he doesn’t attack Java, where will the allies move the planes next turn after 3 more loaded transports are in the vicinity?

Other than minor differences here or there, Kaufschtick has outlined the J1 “Book Move”

I prefer to use the 4th bomber against Yunan instead of the New Britain SS, for example.

Allied response should be aware of the fact that the Japanese TT’s at PI sea zone can move 3 spaces next turn because of captured seabase.

Well I played as Japan again. Pleaded with them to let me play USA, but one guy really wanted to try USA. So it was me vs 3 opponents, 2 had played before, the third an experienced A&A player.
Gave them the immediate 40 IPC boost to USA as game balance.

USA player was overconfident and brought out his initial fleet to Hawaii. Was building loaded CVs+ mixed DDs, SS and occasional CA each turn. I moved a third of my fleet to Truk to stare him down.

He attacked the third of my fleet at truk (plus 4 fighters scrambled on defense). Should have been a mutual wipe out but he rolled amazing dice (and I rolled miserably, 1 hit for 6 4’s, 3 3’s, 2 2’s)  and crushed my fleet. I had built 6 SS turn 1 so I was able to counter attack effectively.
He continued to offer up his US fleet piecemeal so there was never a chance for the allies.

UK used CV build turn 1. He decided to take out 4 Japanese TT’s UK2 but the net effect was DD, CA, CV, 2 fighters lost for 4 TT’s + 1 DD + 1 sub.
At that point UK was out of the game.

Final turn (I think J6) I captured the last China Territory with its final defensive stack, India with UK final defensive stack, Sydney(under-defended but with
ANZAC in a position to retake) and completely destroyed USN off Hawaii.
Never had 4 decisive attacks against all 4 allies on same turn before.

With the exception of a couple of China attacks, Japan had average or worse dice the entire game. It lasted about 3 hours.

Two players hold an auction for the right to play Japan, bidding in ipcs.

For example, I bid 14 ipcs, opponent bids 15, going back and forth until one person decides to play Allies. High bidder plays Japan.

Allies get to place units equal to ipcs bid on the board before the game begins.

So, if I win with a bid of 18 I get to play Japan and my opponent could place, say, 6 extra inf on Yunnan (bad choice), or UK DD (with Battleship & Transports) + extra US fighter in PI, or any other allied units as long as they add up to bid amount.

Eventually, after hundreds of bid games, players learn the actual bid that equalizes the game.

Well, Harris’ answers were certainly interesting.

Larry, Japan is indeed overpowered in PAC1940.
A good Japanese player will win the vast majority of the time using OOB rules.

As observed in other threads on this site, a mediocre Japan can easily fritter away its advantage, giving the win to the allies. This is the source of doubt.

A tournament-level Japan player will CRUSH the allies after a J1 attack. The initial advantage is just too much to overcome.

Japanese player always overprotects Japan against Midway buildup. They have no choice.

If US is earning 55 ipcs, and already has a sizable navy(mainly cheap subs), they can funnel 4 TTs, 5 inf + 3 art per turn. That’s 8 ground units + transport capacity landing in Midway each turn. Quite a bit of pressure for Japan to worry about. At the very least, Japan spends a couple of turns buying 10 inf for defense in Tokyo. Psychological warfare at its finest.
Japan may even bring the bulk of her fleet back home to defend.
At that point US can go TRUK–>PI and/or Asia mainland and/or DEI, blocking IJN from retaking TRUK with DD’s(can be ANZAC DD’s).
Japan will probably move back to PI.
Then US lands TT’s only all over the map like a bad rash, retreating the fleet back to Midway or Hawaii.
This is not an easy task for the USN. Japan probably has 5-6 loaded carriers at this point.

For a change, Japan has to play with precision. But, with precise play, win they do unless the caveman has anything to say about it.

Kaufschtick, the Midway threat to Japan IS a feint(unless something presents itself). US true objective should be China, as you surmised.

To get back to the original topic, boardgame rules go through various iterations.

The following scenario is all pure speculation on my part.

I think the set up in Malaya was different at first; maybe two inf + one fighter.
Interim rules introduced scrambling from ALL territories with an AB, not just islands.
This gave the UK an additional defender when Japan attacks the Singapore fleet J1.

Later on, when scrambling was eliminated from non-islands, they moved the fighter from Singapore back to Burma, reinforced Singapore with additional infantry but forgot that the fighter was needed to deter the J1 attack of the UK Fleet-or maybe they boosted US NO income to 40 from 30(something else may have caused them to do this), so they thought that would be enough of a deterrent?

btw, those of you proposing to attack the sea of Japan from Hawaii should be aware it takes 2 turns to do so. So if you say you are going to attack Japan turn 6 you actually won’t reach there until turn 7. Hope the Japanese fleet is out of range, because the USN (without scrambling defense and with fully loaded transports) is definitely within the range of Japanese air.

I would normally place the bulk of the Japanese fleet at PI at this point, with maybe a few ships at TRUK and/or Singapore.

So, 2 turns to reach Japan, unless, of course, the Japanese player blunders and fails to block this very obvious build up with a DD,

OR

US Player bases his fleet out of a Midway seabase :-D

@kungfujew:

But you should certainly do what Whackamatt suggested.  Post your planned moves.  I’m very curious to know where all your planes and naval ships are when you’re setting this plan in motion over the first few turns.  Feel free to explain why you’re positioning where you are and what kind of Allied moves you’re expecting to be able to counter.  You never know maybe you’ll convince me and I’ll sign your petition to make the immediate US bonus on a Japanese turn one attack.  I’m almost always in favour of making a game more challenging.

Kaufschtick and others on this site have been calling for effective allied strategies from day 1.

We KNOW the J1, J2, J3, J4 moves that work. They have been posted in more than one thread. What we desperately need is someone to post the Allied counter moves instead of nebulous assurances of parity.

Specifically, what exactly does US buy their first 4-5 turns?
What is the most effective use of UK power, which decays rapidly?
Where exactly do you move and place Chinese inf? (bear in mind any defensive stack gets whacked by MJAP, massive Japanese air power)
How can ANZAC best support the growing American fleet?

My original idea for parity is simply ban the J1 attack. I’m inclined to use the caveman method developed by Kaufschtick. Regardless, when I play the allies we use OOB rules, when  I play Japan, I offer game balance.

As far as sticking with a game through to its conclusion, Japan is on a tight deadline. If the game is not clearly won within a few turns it is probably an allied victory. If Japan reaches the point where it has to dodge a superior US fleet, Japan has lost.

I favor Midway because of the psychological effect it has on my opponents. They tend to overprotect Japan. A competent Japanese player can counter it.

As far as using ANZAC and UK air to whittle down the Japanese fleet, if a Japanese player allows this to happen they deserve to lose.

I have lost twice, both times as allies. Both times to less than perfect opponents. Japan can afford to make a couple of mistakes, the allies none.

I likened it to a chess match: the winning player (Japan)has any number of imaginative moves and strategies to try. The losing player (Allies) must make one perfect defensive move after another just to survive.

This is great news.
Definitely will give the allies this balance next time I play Japan.

Good work, Kaufschtick!

Outside chance I may go to Gencon. Would be great to meet up.

@bugoo:

Ok, let me be a bit more clear with the UK/China.

Turn 1) China retakes Yun, places 4 inf in Szeshwan, along with moving an inf there and landing the fig.  UK moves 4 inf from Malaya to Sham State, 4 inf, 1 art, 1 aa from india to burma, lands planes in SZESHWAN if you are scared japan will attack it will air to wipe out the chinamen.  Absolutely no japan ground forces can reach them.  Then builds either 4 mech, or 4 inf and a mech.

Turn 2) China retakes Yun, places 5 inf there, granting around 6-9 china inf there.  UK then moves all forces they desire to Yunnan while making sure india cannot be taken (obviously).  This gives you around 7(china inf), 5 inf, 1 art, 1 AA(burma UK forces), possible 4 more inf from Sham State (granted i would kill them as ANZAC inf should go there too, if japan doesn’t anzac can take Siam for an easy 6 bucks), and anywhere from 1 to 4 mech, and up to 5 planes.  Japan is extremely thin on ground troops in the south for the first two turns.  And yes, you may wish to rebuild that AA gun if japan gets planes in range of india.

At this point, India is secure, Yun has a monster stack, on japan 3 they will build a factory, on japan 4 they will build 10 inf, at this point you may desire to move the monster stack from Yun, to burma.  Where it just happens to be in the way.  This grants you an extra 10-15 china inf to go with the UK stack defending.  Now yes, japan can bypass Burma, but that is costly and slows them down in the naval race.  The US will not always be able to get a big enough fleet, but alot of times they can.  And this is where the balance comes in.  You may also want to let japan take burma on turn 5 if you can retake it with china and the UK, sometimes this is a good idea, sometimes a bad idea (good because it keeps japans air out of the fight killing your stack as your stack is doing the attacking, sometime bad because you loose too much).  With the game dragging out this long you just may get lucky and get some US/ANZAC planes into that region as well.

Well, J2 I drop 3 loaded Transp (J1 purchase) on FIC ( <–-- book move, btw) and attack Yunnan with 4inf 2Art (and whoever else can reach)+ MJAP. As Japan I easily trade a like number of planes for all of the RAF in the region.

I always lick my lips whenever I see UK fighters in Yunnan. It’s only happened twice. Very ugly for the allies both times.

@calvinhobbesliker:

Okay, India falls. So what? India will fall anyway, so you might as well use those troops to help China take some tt instead of them sitting in India waiting to die.

Well, that’s the real trick, isn’t it?

What does UK do in its limited window of opportunity?

I am unconvinced that India can be held if UK helps China keep the Burma road open.

1st game I ever played I did all the book moves (except I went in PI with 3 loaded transp instead of 2) as Japan.

Turn 2 Uk used DD to prevent bombardment on Singapore. Made no diff. 3 loaded transp (picking up Hong Kong survivors), plus a shitload of airpower, hit and captured Singapore with 1 round of combat.

UK had it in his mind to help China right from the start and started moving his inf stack forward turns 1 and 2. British air were in India and only 4 infantry.

J3 India + Burma fell to Japanese amphibious assult from Singapore (air support for India attack: 4 Bmb, 1 Tac, 1 F, many, many, many planes were able to reach Burma).
I recall that the Japanese had 1 ground unit left in both India & Burma, might have taken 3 air as casualties total.

Two thirds of my fleet was in Truk staring down the USN in Hawaii by end of J2.

GAME OVER (Allies resigned)

I have won playing UK but a) Japan didnt attack until J3 and b) Japan was an extremely weak player (UK captured DEI - nuff said)

I really don’t have an effective strategy for UK (though I do want to try the CV build).

I do know UK cannot effectively reinf China without exposing itself to Massed Japanese Air Power(MJAP).

You can’t build IC’s on islands, Japan being the exception. (Australia a continent)

I will give this a try next time I play Japan.

Of the proposed game balances I’ve seen (US immediate 40 bonus, no J1 attack, negative J aircraft bid) this seems to disrupt the concept of the game the least.

The Caroline transp can either help take PI or take Borneo J1.

J2 the Phillipines transports have 3 moves because of Naval Base.
Possible to pick up surviving troops from HongKong and take DEI or Malay peninsula. (Can also reach Queensland which gives ANZAC something to ponder)

With transports you built J1 land more troops in French Indo China (to help cut Burma road again J3). You can build minor Ind in FIC.

At this point I retreat two thirds of my fleet to Truk to stare down the Americans. single DD screen to prevent Hawaii fleet from entering Sea of Japan.