Posts made by UN Spacy

Ah, four turns until it can’t attack. That’s even better!

@maverick_76:

@UN:

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

Is that a 100% fact?

I would seriously give you the source in an instant, but I cannot find it. I know, just know, I heard it from somewhere–-either from Krieg or from Larry on his website.

What I’m worried about is the German player instantly quits the game if France has not fallen by G2. It’s not doom and gloom, people. It just means Sealion is no longer an option.  :roll:

@M:

Nice. Good luck with the Axis strategies.

Maybe explain the regional capitals for the UK…?

I’m terrified of doing the Axis strategies. And if I asked what I should write I’m probably going to get bombarded with “G1 attack Wru 4 inf 3 tnk”, etc.

@maverick_76:

I’m pretty sure that the Soviets can actually attack whenever they want, meaning that a Germany with a weak eastern front will have Russia that much closer to Berlin. Something tells me that Sealion could work, but at the cost of too much in the East meaning that Germany better take the UK and hope to god that Japan is diverting some US income away from the European side of things.

I’m betting the political rules are set where Russia and Germany, just like Russia and Japan, are not at war but can attack whenever they want. The only power that can not attack at the start will be the US. That is probably going to be the only way to counter a Sealion strategy.

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

Not sure if this belongs here IL, feel free to move it to the appropriate forum.

So! With the release of Europe 1940 weeks away, it’s eventually going to be passed on that there’s this kool WWII board game that’s so titanic and epic in scope, it torpedoes Risk out of the water. What game is this?

Axis and Allies 1940!

But there’s going to be those that are going to ask “playing as Germany seems fun, but I have so many things to consider! What strategies should I do?” Well, I’m currently making a beginner’s guide to playing as all of the powers, even the minor ones. It’s a very, very basic guide, so hardcore players, don’t barf. I’m giving them an overall, strategic idea of how each side and power generally play as, not detailed, turn-by-turn hardcore descriptions.

The reason why I post this here is to have you guys tell me what you think of it. Do I capture the spirit of every power? Should I add more detail or less detail to specific powers?

ALLIES

General strategy: the Allies start off with an inferior military at the start of the game. The French Army is in its death throes, the British is mostly deployed in North Africa, the Americans start off far from the action, and the Soviet Union must position its armies. However, they start off with a much stronger economy. The Allies must work together to figure out who is going to do what, and figure out what needs protecting and preserving, and what does not.

United Kingdom: My personal favorite power, the British start off with the most amount of territories in the game. Unfortunately, this means that they’re spread thin. Their possessions are constantly being threatened by air, naval, and ground forces. The British Army is stretched to the breaking point, with the majority of their ground forces in Africa, leaving the British Isles defended only by the air force.

On the other side of the coin, them being so spread out means the British can also strike out almost anywhere, given enough resources. The navy starts off powerful, as does the air force in Britain. A smart British player can kick the Italians out of Africa if they play their cards right. The British player also has several roads he/she can go down. Does he use his air power to fortify Malta and harass the Italian Navy? Or do they divert what resources they can in Egypt? It all depends on the current situation of the ever-shifting balance of power in Axis and Allies.

In the Pacific, the Japanese player will eventually turn his attention to India. At that point, you need to make sure that you turn Southeast Asia into a meat grinder for the Japanese to pass through. Make them pay for every step towards India. More likely than not they will take it if they divert enough resources to it, and Calcutta will fall–-but suddenly they have Soviets barreling down in Manchuria and the US Navy steaming in from the East! This will happen if the Japanese player isn’t careful, and it’s your job to make him NOT careful.

Also bear in mind, the European and Pacific British income is divided. This is to ensure that the British player doesn’t dump everything in a single theater like a little kid does when he’s locked in combat against his sibling. If India falls, European Britain keeps fighting, and vice versa.

The United States: They start off with the strongest economy in the world, easily giving them the ability to build massive amounts of war machines. What weakness does the Americans have, then? Well, at the start of the game the Americans are neutral and are in a peacetime economy (although even in peace, the Americans have huge amounts of IPCs). Once they go to war the Americans find they start off far from the wars raging in Europe and Asia. They also must constantly balance their attention between the Pacific and Europe; focusing all resources on one theater only could be lethal to the Allied war effort.

The strengths of the US, however, are as big as its economy. Want to build a massive air fleet? A massive navy, army? A combination of all three? Go ahead, because you can. The Axis will eventually learn the hard way of the drawbacks of facing the strongest economy in the game.

Typically you want to focus attention in Africa while slowly building up forces near and in the British Isles for an invasion of Nazi-held Europe. If the Axis haven’t overrun Egypt yet you’re in good luck. Otherwise, be prepared for a massive showdown in North Africa. If you want to get creative, invade Spain, forcing the Germans to divert units from the Eastern Front to protect France, although all other True Neutrals (Sweden, Turkey, etc.) will become pro-Axis, which means Germany can merely move a single unit into those territories, getting reinforcements that will probably be sent against the Soviets.

In the Pacific, don’t count on defeating the Japanese early unless they make some truly stupid decisions. While the Japanese Army is busy tied down in China and Southeast Asia, coordinate with ANZAC to pick at the Imperial Navy. Any opening should be exploited ASAP. For example, if they leave the Caroline Islands open, take it. If they leave any part of the Dutch East Indies open, take it. Build up your navy to force the Japanese to have a naval cold war.

Soviet Union: As in real life, the Soviet Union will be doing by far the most fighting with Nazi Germany in terms of manpower. Unlike the Western Allies, you only have on overarching goal: survive. At the beginning of the game the Germans are focused in the West, so you have some time to maneuver and build up the Red Army. When black and red figures clash on the board, be prepared to lose at least some ground. Don’t try to hold everything. Try to concentrate your units in three separate forces: North, Central, South. Trying to focus your power on one single massive army probably isn’t a good idea.

You can certainly attack Japan if you feel adventurous. At the beginning of the game Japan and the Soviet Union are not at war with each other, and it’s in both powers’ interest not to attack each other. However, if Japan is slowly forced to divert power from Manchuria elsewhere, suddenly attacking would divert significant Japanese resources north, relieving pressure off the Western Allies and China.

In past games, the Western Allies would try to help out the Soviets in the Eastern Front by invading Norway and pumping units in from there. This time, there is a National Objective that negatively affects the Soviets if there is any non-Soviet Allied unit in Red territory. So unless your teammates are feeling devious or you desperately need help, having non-Soviet Allied units in USSR territory probably isn’t a good idea.

France: As a patriotic Frenchman, I can say with no regret that the French player will probably have a very boring game after the first few rounds, which is why France will be controlled by another Allied player. The French fate is pretty much sealed on Germany’s first turn unless the Germans get some truly atrocious rolls (and believe me, it has happened). While European France is still intact, just roll and hope that you inflict as much losses as you can against the Wehrmacht.

When France falls, maneuver whatever fleet that survived into a single concentrated position and keep it that way. In North Africa, merge your three infantry into a single stack in Algeria (provided the Italians didn’t invade Tunisia yet) and then move said stack to Morocco to link up with the Americans when the arrive. Luckily for us, when Paris is liberated France can place 12 IPCs worth of units in the Paris territory, and can now start producing units for the Allied cause. When that happens, the Germans will be in a critical position: a power producing units right next to German territory is a big time threat.

If, for some reason, the Germans are unable to take Paris in the first round, build a cruiser (or a few submarines) and move any surviving fighters to Britain. The French’s primary contribution to Axis and Allies will be its navy, and doing this will make that goal more realizable.

The People’s Democratic Glorious and Most Exquisite Greater Empire of China: the Greater Chinese Empire is the most powerful country in the game. Its massive military and huge resources allows it to push the Japanese out of China relatively quickly, forcing the Japanese player to cower in fear behind its Imperial Navy.

Yeah…all right. In reality, China starts off with only infantry and can only build infantry (unless the Burma road is open, in which they can build artillery). China, another minor power, will also be controlled by another Allied power. Generally, the Chinese tries to make Japan’s life very uncomfortable in its Asian conquests. Don’t make attacks that you’ll regret later, and try to defend more than attack. An exception would be to the Burma Road. While it’s open, you gain an additional 6 IPCs per turn. In that case, throw your hordes of screaming Chinamen at that territory, and be happy that you’ll get at least a temporary economical boost.

China starts off with one fighter unit, representing the US Flying Tigers. This unit is non-replaceable, so use it wisely.

Australian-New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC): Although normally played independently, ANZAC is considered a minor power like France and China. Its strategy normally consists of being a thorn in the side for Japan, capturing the Dutch East Indies or securing Dutch New Guinea for a National Objective. However, if played by a competent player, ANZAC can become a knife in the side for Japan instead of merely a thorn. If Japan has no fleet protecting the Dutch East Indies (and it’s captured all of the DEI at this point) then build up submarines and go on a convoy killing spree there. Of course you’ll probably be chased out but that now means the Japanese player must guard all of its shipping lanes.
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AXIS

General strategy: My gods, who loves playing as the Axis? Many. They start off with a massive military force. Germany is the center of attention, and Japan will shock the world with its rapid conquests of everything that borders orange in Asia. Italy will force everyone in Africa to begin speaking Italian, or at least try to. However, this also means the Axis start off with a weaker economy overall than the Allies do. Your conquering will eventually pay off, but don’t overextend yourself.

Germany: By far the most popular power in Axis and Allies, Germany has a huge army to start with and a huge amount of options of what it can do. To your West, France and the British Army is at your mercy. In the East, the Soviets are perhaps getting too drunk on vodka, and it’s up to you to sober them up. With tanks and bombs.

However, you cannot try to do two things at once. Grab France first. As to who gets Southern France, Germany or Italy is entirely up to the Axis player(s) to decide. Do you want the Germans to send help to Africa quicker or does Italy need more industrial power?

Once the French and British armies are crushed under your heel, you now have two options. One is to focus everything you’ve got to conquer the British Isles. The advantage to this is that you eliminate a very annoying Allied power that is a constant, very near menace to Germany and Italy. The disadvantage is that suddenly those vodka-ridden Soviets are becoming much more sober and trigger happy than they were historically. With your attention focused in the west, the Soviets will undoubtedly be preparing for an invasion of your eastern borders.

Your second option is to throw every tank, soldier, plane, and beer cans at the Soviet Union, blitzing your way through Moscow. The advantage is that you, well, take Moscow! The USSR will suddenly become a much smaller threat to you, and you can focus your attention on those pesky Western Allies. The disadvantage is that the Soviet Union is big. And the Soviets have teeth. Moscow will not be as easy to take as Paris was.

Speaking of the capital of Frenchie land, don’t sweat it if you do not beat the Allied armies in the West in your first turn. That does not mean the game is over, that means you probably can’t do an invasion of Britain. If you still have not taken Paris by the end of your second turn your dice officially hate you.

As for Africa, send as little there as you can spare. The Italians are more than capable of handling themselves if you send them a tank and infantry or two. There is a National Objective of having German units in Egypt, so if you want, take advantage of that.

On the whole, there are endless opportunities for Germany. Focus on building a navy? A great bomber fleet? A better army? It’s all up to you, which means that playing as Germany might not be the best to play as for novice players.

Politics might seem boring, but in this game they’re important. Don’t have your Japanese player piss off the Americans too early. Keep the American giant sleeping for as long as you can. Once they wake up it’s going to get nasty real soon for all three Axis powers.

Italy: Italy’s a interesting power to play as. It starts off with a decent army, a strong navy, and a weak air force. It doesn’t start off with a lot of money, and its territories are few. All this means that Italy is the perfect power to play as for new players to the game. Italy can quickly become a force to be reckoned with if played by a competent player who doesn’t lose his focus in Africa.

Although it may be tempting to immediately take over Yugoslavia and Greece, be careful where you tread with that. The Yugoslavs will be no pushover, and the Greeks a little more so. You will need to commit significant power to those regions if you want to gobble up their resources. Otherwise, let your German friends up north handle them, and take Southern France instead.

Africa and the Med will both be your main centers of attention. If the Brits turn Malta into Fortress Malta, you need to do something about that. Their taunting and farting in your general direction (i.e. aircraft) will be a constant headache to you as you try to bring reinforcements to your units in Libya. At the start of the game, the French and British start off with a fleet that, combined, can challenge your regional naval superiority. Because Britain goes before Italy in the turn order, what you want to do with your navy will probably be heavily influenced by what those crumpet-eating Britons do. They might link up with the French fleet, they might try to attack your fleet, or anything in-between.

The space between Libya and Egypt will become a fireworks display for those viewing the battles in orbit. The British will not let go of Egypt easily, and your succeeds of taking it depends entirely on how creative you get. A tug-o-war battle in North Africa might not be enough: if the French are foolish enough to leave Syria unguarded, immediately invade it. Suddenly the Allies have to worry about a second threat to Egypt, from directly behind them. If you can, move troops into Iraq and get some Iraqis to help you fight the good fight.

Historically, Italy never had to worry about their flank until 1942. Why? Vichy France was officially neutral and did not pose a threat on Libya’s western borders. In this game, however, Vichy France does not exist, and those Frenchmen manning those posts look awfully angry. If you can, try to get rid of the three French infantry in North Africa as soon as you can. If they manage to meet up in a single territory (especially Tunis), they can be a real problem.

Once (if) Egypt has been taken, focus your attention south and drive on to South Africa. The Brits will still be pumping out units from there (unless London is flying the swastika) so don’t expect the fight for Africa to be over quite yet.

Empire of Japan: Japan starts off with the most powerful navy and, some say, air force in the game. Although only at war with China, they have the power to take huge amounts of land in its first turn. The Allies will be powerless against your initial onslaught.

The problem is, are you ready for an early attack? In the short term you certainly are. But the consequences for attacking immediately are there. For one, the United States will be a menace much earlier than it historically was, and once they get going they will not stop.  Attacking the Soviet Union in your first turn probably isn’t a good idea either.

Am I discouraging you from attacking on your first turn? No. You just need to be prepared for the consequences and you need to ask yourself if you can handle it. It’s certainly tempting to attack in every direction with your massive Imperial Navy and Air Force, but a more conservative player can have just as much success as a player who is more aggressive than Bill O’Reilly. Spending your first two or three turns maneuvering your forces might mean that the Allies will secure certain territories (the Dutch East Indies, for example) and be able to pull their puny navies back to safer positions, but that also means that you’ll be in a better position for your Asiatic blitzkrieg.

In the Pacific, you’re going to be the dominant naval power, whether the Allies like it or not. Be careful with where you put your ships though: ANZAC and the US will always be looking for ways to pick off your navy, so don’t overextend yourself. If you keep your fleet in several bastions of power spread over your maritime empire, you guarantee security for your territories, at least for the short term. Go ahead and throw everything at India and China if you wish, but realize that the consequences for that is an American/ANZAC invasion of your Eastern territories.

In Asia, like I mentioned above, you’re more than welcome to throw every plane and ground unit you want in India’s direction on your very first turn. It’s certainly within your power to eventually march through Calcutta triumphantly. But, as always, there are consequences. If you divert significant air power from Manchuria and Japan, the Soviets will become much more interested in their Far Eastern Borders than they were historically. If you want to play it smart, you’ll need to find a balance of your air power in your territorial holdings. Over-aggressive players will find they will be able to take China and India rapidly at the expensive of rapid encroachment of the Americans and ANZAC. If you think you’ll be able to push them out of the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere, you’re free to become that over-aggressive player.

As with Japan, you have quite an array of options to work with, given how heavily militarized you are at the start of the game. It depends on the type of player you are, and what the strategical position is on what strategy is best for you.

IN CONCLUSION: Axis and Allies changes. What do I mean by that? The dice. The dice can make a poorly conceived strategy into a winning streak that even Napoleon would appreciate. Yet the dice can also turn a brilliantly conceived strategy into a losing streak that even most Italian generals in WWII would appreciate. In short, don’t be surprised if the dice hate you one minute and love you the next. Much of the game depends on strategy, but much of it also depends on the luck of the dice.

@SAS:

@UN:

@bugoo:

Nah, france can be smashed with ground units, from my count germany has
6 inf, 2 art, 4 mech, 6 arm in range, allies have
7 inf, 2 art, 2 arm, 1 fig, meaning allies lose.  Even the other 2 french territories can be taken on G1 if they want, although it may force them to use a plane or two, as there is only 1 inf on one, and an inf/art on the other.

The UK has a massive fleet to begin the game with, and will almost always build a carrier turn 1, and i’m not sure but i’m assuming atleast a battleship will survive.  I mean UK alone starts with 5 DD / 4 Cru / 1 AC / 2 BB / 3 Trans, that is alot of hits!  Not to mention the 4 french boats helping to shield them.  You will want to kill every UK boat on turn 1 you can, or Germany will be screwed.

That still doesn’t count as an automatic win for the Axis. Again, Axis victory in France is virtually guaranteed, but I sill use the word “virtual”, not absolute. Perhaps the Allies can still score a victory in death, say, if most of their units get hits. That’s going to inflict horrible losses on the Germans.

Counting all the units from the GSG, Holland/Belgium, and West Germany territories; Germany will have 6 inf, 2 art, 4 mec, and 5 tanks in range of the French territories.  An aggressive Germany could send 2 inf and 1 art from Holland/Belgium against Normandy/Bordeaux, 1 mec and 1 tank (probably with a tac for support) through Italy to Southern France, and still have 4 inf, 1 art, 3 mec, and 4 tanks for Paris (about 87% chance of victory).  This means that simply by using a couple planes Germany can take out all of France on the first turn relatively easily and leave themselves the rest of their airforce for the Allied Navy.

So it’s looking like France won’t be around for very long, just like Larry said, and Germany won’t have to worry too badly about immediate reprisals from the UK.  Whether that’s good or bad remains to be seen…

And as I said, victory is almost guaranteed. But 87% is not quite 100%.

@Proud:

I think spain is pro-axis because at the time they were having the spanish civil war and Hitler supported the rebels,making the public lean towards the axis.

Just because its government was pro-Axis does not mean the majority of the Spanish people were.

To SAS: Yep. And some countries in Africa that I can’t name currently. Liberia, Angola, maybe a few others.

@SAS:

I am very interested in finding out is the list of neutrals: pro-Allies and pro-Axis.

Pro-Axis:

-Bulgaria
-Finland
-Iraq

Pro-Allies:

-Brazil
-Yugoslavia
-Greece

The UK, for sure. The Brits have always been a favorite for me, since they can strike at anywhere around the world given enough resources. In Global, Japan’s restricted to Asia, Germany to Europe. (LOL at those who say Japan can transfer planes to Europe and not hurt itself in that way.) The USA is also in Europe and the Pacific but they start far from the action. The USSR’s goal is to simply survive, and I’m not into life-and-death struggles on a titanic scale like that. China, France and ANZAC are too minor to play as.

@Jake:

If the US liberates Paris,
then France collects income…
and then Germany may conquer again Paris and get the french money.
:-D

You’re right. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be a walk in the park though.

@LHoffman:

@UN:

That still doesn’t count as an automatic win for the Axis. Again, Axis victory in France is virtually guaranteed, but I sill use the word “virtual”, not absolute. Perhaps the Allies can still score a victory in death, say, if most of their units get hits. That’s going to inflict horrible losses on the Germans.

UN, I agree that at the beginning France has the potential to be much more than just a speed bump. But once Germany has taken France… they become less than a speed bump. I think that remaining French units can surely make important contributions to events in the game… but they will be non-functioning as a power.

You’re right. Once France falls its power is negligible. But that doesn’t mean the Free French units will play a negligible role in the battle for Africa.

Also, if the Allies ever liberate France again, Germany’s in a critical position at that point. France gets four free infantry in the Paris territory and once again becomes a full power.

@Imperious:

Exactly. Napoleon the despot was the determining factor. The Spanish people didn’t accept a French ruler but really had little choice.

You misunderstand why the Peninsular War happened. Even that was not an aggressive move on Napoleon’s part. One has to be cautious when making simplistic judgments of saying he invaded because he wanted to close down Europe to the Continental System.

It started with an appeal for Napoleon’s arbitration by King Charles IV, a degenerate Bourbon dominated by his wife and her lover, Godoy, who was Prime Minister. There was the influence of Talleyrand, Napoleon’s ex-foreign minister, who favored the expulsion of the Bourbons from all thrones and the accession of a prince from the Bonaparte family to the Spanish throne. There was also the irritation of a sovereign (guess who, Napoleon) who was engaged in a struggle to the death for his security and who realized that there was a door on the Iberian Peninsula still open to trade with the British. The only real mistake Napoleon made was misjudging the Spanish people, so proud, so noble, so independent, prepared to make any sacrifice and to rise up as one against any foreign interference. Events moved so quickly that once hostilities had begun it was impossible to change policy.

Madrid revolted (against the government, not against the French, whom they were not yet hostile against), and the people, drunk with fury, seized Godoy, threatening to kill him. Charles IV abdicated in favor of his son, and then retracted his abdication. Napoleon then had to decide between the king and the son as they exchanged insults in front of him at Bayonne. Charles IV named Murat, one of Napoleon’s Marshals, lieutenant general of the kingdom but, learning of a new uprising in Madrid (which Murat brutally took down, a brutality that Napoleon very much disapproved of), abdicated definitely in favor of “the great Napoleon” after a nasty scene with his wife and his son, and received in exchange a civil list and residence in France. Joseph Bonaparte was named king of Spain, but receiving a throne as a promotion and occupying the throne–-when the throne was that of Spain—were two different things!

The Peninsular War was definitely Napoleon’s biggest mistake (not his invasion of Russia), but he, as always, was not the only one responsible for it. The British were responsible for trying to return to the Continent by way of Spain; the Spanish royal family were responsible for being so inefficient and for their inability to run a country properly. Napoleon was responsible for even agreeing to mediate affairs at all.

Napoleon also took advantage of The french economic position which was just as poor as it was before the revolution to take power, not unlike Hitler except Hitler was elected and appointed to his first position.

Hmmm, so now you want to talk politics at that time too eh? Very well!  :-D

Two things:

1)Napoleon did not simply take advantage of the “French economic system”. He never sought to take power in France until he was involved in a conspiracy to overthrow it and he realized that France needed a strong, central leader, not a “government of lawyers” as the Directory was called. Napoleon turned the French economy around in only a year. Even in 1814, when the Coalition was on France’s doorstep, France had little debt.

2)Napoleon was also elected and appointed to his position, but unlike Hitler he did not acquire that position via blackmail, backstabbing, and assassination. When he was First Consul Napoleon was not a dictator. Although that all-powerful position of First Consul had the power to propose legislation, it was the specialized sections of the Council of State that wrote them: finance, legislation, war, navy, interior. There was no secrecy; the ministers attended the meetings and the consuls’ approval was required to enact a law. And what a sense of human relations the First Consul showed as he participated in the meetings of the Council, asking questions and encouraging discussion! In what democracy today do we find the head of state discussing and arguing about the country’s affairs with the citizens’ elite in this way? Where do we find that in Hitler’s tyranny?

Another political necessity was the Constitution of the Year XII, which established the French Empire with Napoleon as Emperor. This was a normal development of a strong regime; as the Emperor became more sure of himself, he showed less and less tolerance towards people who “talk but do not do anything”, and indeed became increasingly authoritarian. The legislative assembly became a mere recording chamber and the Senate was filled with people devoted to the Emperor. This was a logical consequence that the Nation, by a substantial majority, gave the only man who could save it. “The Nation threw itself at my feet when I arrived in government,” Napoleon said. “I took less authority then I was asked to take.”

But before crying dictatorship and condemning out of hand an authoritarianism that partially muzzled the democratic system of universal suffrage (which existed in no European country that that time), it’s important to go back to the role of the important Council of State, the basis of the legislative system. The council members, senior officials, and auditors made up a extraordinary body, surprising its worth and technical skill. It dealt with all bills, gave its opinions, and ruled on appeals addressed to the Emperor. Twice a week the Emperor chaired the meetings. The prescence of the man whose law ruled from the Atlantic to the plains of Poland did not inhibit those attending. On the contrary, the legislative policy of France was enacted there without the least absolutism, and in a way, it was the entire government.

Hitler only gave more and more political power to himself and to himself only. Hitler restricted basic rights and if you practiced a religion that he did not like, you were probably going to die. The Napoleonic Code encouraged the practice of religion and basic rights, which is why it’s the foundations of law for much of Western Europe.

Latter he maintained his hold upon the people with military victories. That is what Hitler did. He made a few victories to keep the people thinking that war could solve the national problems and victory carried his power further.

His position as First Consul certainly was strengthened with his reputation as a victorious general, but the stability of the government did not rest on victories alone. Otherwise, why did his government still function and why was he still popular after the first major French check at Eylau in 1807?

When Napoleon lost his Grande Army his support began to falter, just as the Opposition to Hitler mounted after Stalingrad.

This might be true. But there’s one huge difference between this. Today, Napoleon is seen as a hero and a man of the people in Western Europe. True, there might be people who also hate him for his supposed “tyranny”, but the man is as loved as he is hated. Hitler is, overwhelmingly, hated by the majority of civilization, worshiped only by fringe neo-Nazis groups. It is extremely difficult to form an objective view of Hitler: for Napoleon, as you can see above, is not.

Also, his support might have faltered, but the French people realized just how much their Emperor was a better ruler than the Bourbons who learned nothing from the Revolution.

And by his Heirs that continues far beyond the demise of Napoleon. Napoleon III was also a dictator who used his name to usurp power borrowed from the exploits of Napoleon I. He go the support of the people and threw out the opposition, like Hitler. He also took over Mexico. I don’t remember the Mexicans holding an election for a French ruler?

Napoleon III was an efficient ruler and greatly improved the prestige of France. He was not, however, like Napoleon I. He could indeed be called a dictator, unlike Napoleon I. That does not mean, however, that he was as bad as that monster Hitler.

WTF?

I really don’t get this. Why does the French Navy have to be Soviet-based? French Navy>Soviet Navy at that time. At least make them British  :roll:

@bugoo:

Nah, france can be smashed with ground units, from my count germany has
6 inf, 2 art, 4 mech, 6 arm in range, allies have
7 inf, 2 art, 2 arm, 1 fig, meaning allies lose.  Even the other 2 french territories can be taken on G1 if they want, although it may force them to use a plane or two, as there is only 1 inf on one, and an inf/art on the other.

The UK has a massive fleet to begin the game with, and will almost always build a carrier turn 1, and i’m not sure but i’m assuming atleast a battleship will survive.  I mean UK alone starts with 5 DD / 4 Cru / 1 AC / 2 BB / 3 Trans, that is alot of hits!  Not to mention the 4 french boats helping to shield them.  You will want to kill every UK boat on turn 1 you can, or Germany will be screwed.

That still doesn’t count as an automatic win for the Axis. Again, Axis victory in France is virtually guaranteed, but I sill use the word “virtual”, not absolute. Perhaps the Allies can still score a victory in death, say, if most of their units get hits. That’s going to inflict horrible losses on the Germans.

@miamibeach:

The Italian fleet should not attack the French fleet in SZ 91.  On the first turn the Germans can easily sink the French DD and CA, and in return might lose one FTR.

With what? The majority of the Luftwaffe is going to be engaged against the remnants of the French Army and BEF in France, and what fighters remain should be saved for far more important things, like the imminent Eastern Front or Africa. Without proper air support I doubt the Germans will take the Paris territory on its first turn.

See, I’m someone who doesn’t deal in absolutes: because people roll dice to attack, almost anything can go wrong. I fully expect to see the French and British armies left in France actually hold out up to G2, perhaps rarely, but its still possible.

@Imperious:

Yeah, except Napoleon was the only legitimate monarch in Europe.

How did that concept work out in 1815 when he took power back in france?

How bout his heirs who he planted like flowers with nothing but the same name… Napoleon… to legitimize their control of their offices?

When Napoleon came back into power in 1815, he was welcomed with open arms by both the army and populace. It was very clear that the French people perfered their Emperor over the pitiful Bourbons whom the Allies had plopped back on the throne after Napoleon’s fall in 1814. Napoleon told the other countries that he had no intentions of re-gaining territories and would agree to any proposal on borders, even to that of 1789.

How did the Coalition respond? They mobilized 800,000 men for a hate-filled anti-French crusade to remove the “outlaw” and force the French people to accept a government they clearly did not want. Even in the British government there was much resentment for how this new “Seventh Coalition” was acting against France. It was unprovoked, and Napoleon was forced to go to war for the last time.

Wait, what? Where you are getting he put his “heirs” anywhere? The only “heir” he had was Napoleon II, King of Rome, who was born in 1810, far too young to rule anything of any sort! If you mean his family members, why not? The new nobility Napoleon made was made out of a imperial nobility based on merit, not on royal birth or “divine right”. Monarchs and kings ruled because they were good at it, not because God told them to. Napoleon would not tolerate inefficiency and corruption within his nation, later Empire. Even with the Continental Blockade going on trade improved in the Continent, roads were paved, and while many resented French rule, the majority did not.

Take Joseph Bonaparte for example, who was King of Naples for a while. He introduced the Napoleonic Code (legal rights, freedom of practice of religion, etc.) improved the infrastructure, opened up schools, and was largely admired by the Napalese people. Even when Napoleon made him King of Spain he gave the country its first constitution and did the same thing he did in Naples. The problem was, the Spanish people would not accept a French ruler.

And he did not just plop them on random thrones: they were always put there at the consent of the governed peoples in question. And not all of the leaders he put were from his family.

@Imperious:

They both were despots who usurped power by various means and were involved in many wars in the name of their own causes. In both men Europe considered them tyrants and tried to rid them both.

Yeah, except Napoleon was the only legitimate monarch in Europe. When he was crowned Emperor it was by approval of the people and the Senate, not by divine right (which is why he had it to where he crowned himself, with the Pope presiding, so it did not seem like he was being crowned by divine right).

@Octospire:

Indeed. Napoleon and Caesar both were tyrants in their own right, but Caesar was a successful tyrant with the love of the people of Rome and eventually the love of the people of the Roman empire, Napoleon wasnt successful he failed spectacularly and he didnt have the love of the people he conquered or in the end even that of the French people because he failed them.

Are you kidding me? If Napoleon didn’t get the love of the people he conqured why is he still admired by many Italians, Poles, Germans? The Polish especially, as Napoleon liberated them from the Prussian, Russian, and Austrian junkers.

His  might have fell but the Empire still survives in codes of law and national identity. I don’t need to repeat how widespread the Napoleonic Code is. His military tactics are studied around the world over. I wouldn’t say he failed spectacularly.

How differently we would view Napoleon if he defeated the Russians and made peace with the British, he would be viewed like Caesar or Alexander as a great all conquering general who brought new ideas and ways of thinking to the masses?

A better question would be to ask, how differently would we view Napoleon if the British and their warmongering European allies didn’t constantly force him to wage defensive wars?

@Cromwell_Dude:

Napoleon proved more a benign dictator like Ceasar, **merely interesed in fame and glory in conqueirng others.  ** Where are Napoleon’s chopping blocks?   Where are Napoleon’s camps?   Where are Napoleon’s thoughts and actions on government?   Dictator, yes.   Fascist, no.

facepalm

Is that what you call it? That’s all he went for, huh? Just power and glory and fame, nothing else? Sigh…

@Raunchy:

Things not yet mentioned:

They both killed and executed resistors.

They both stole works of art; Napolean had those Etruscan statues from Florence and Goering did his bit for Hitler.

Except Napoleon was perfectly entitled to execute the  Duke of Enghien, who was forming a insurrection against France to overthrow the Republic and re-install the monarchy.

And again, Napoleon “stole” works of art on explicit orders from his government when he was still General Bonaparte; and even while he did he made sure to minimize it to just what was requested. He despised looting and prevented every sign of it.

@miamibeach:

France would be a factor if there was a “Free France” with a capitol and a factory somewhere.  As it is now, they are a speed bumb, as they were historically.  After the first turn they will have 5 scattered INF, 1 DD, and 1 CA, and have given Germany their 17 IPC’s.

You seem to assume that the Axis players will be the over-aggressive type and will try to attack every Allied ship in range. The French Med fleet is exposed to be sure, but when the Italians try to take it out, it’s going to be much more than a speed bump.

You know, not every Axis player has to be overly aggressive to win  :roll: