Posts made by U-505

The problem I’m seeing is that your operational cost assesment is slightly skewed because the Japanese has a much larger fleet presence to begin the game with as well as the fact that the US will only make 42 in their initial bankroll as China will likely be in japanese hands from J1. And Japan will be making roughly 35 IPC’s or more per turn by J2.

Also, don’t forget that Japan doesn’t need to match the US on a CV/2 fig basis. As long as there is at least one island or mainland territory in Japanese hands in an adjacent sea zone, Japan can use 4 fighters per carrier. If the Japanese player attacks your fleet it will consist of 2 fighters from the mainland within 4 moves of your fleet that will land on his/her CV and the 2 fighters already on the CV will move 2 spaces to attack your fleet then one space to an adjacent sea zone then one space to land on an island or territory.

8 fig, 2 CV (+1 TP fodder) on attack is roughly equal to 6 figs, 3 CV on defense( I ran a combat sim for this).

Since Japan starts with 6 fighters and 2 CV’s, assuming Hawaii was attacked J1, it will only cost 28 IPC’s to maximize Japans CV potential while it will cost the US (who has 3 figs left after Hawaii is attacked) 78 IPC’s to match that.

My math is thus: Japan has to buy 2 fig, 1 TP(28 IPC’s) to equal the US buy of 3 fig, 3 CV(78 IPC’s).

That’s a 50 IPC difference that would allow Japan to build a bunch of ground units in Asia. And that doesn’t even take into account the fact that Japan has an extra BB and bomber that you will have to spend even more to match. Essentially, 3 turns of US income versus 1 turn of japanese income for both fleets to become roughly equal. 2 turns of income can go a long way for Japan while he/she waits for the US to roll into the Pacific.

Since you are using the out of the box rules, it may be possible, but it’s a gamble and you will likely lose the game because Germany will probably be in trouble from the beginning.

Here goes.

Build your existing fleet so that you have at least 4 transports. Don’t build too many more than 4 or the US player will become suspicious. Build 1 bomber a turn until you have around 4 or 5. Use the transports to land units from Japan like normal and use the bombers to attack in Asia.

VERY IMPORTANT: NEVER move the transports away from sea zone 60 and keep ALL of your bombers in Burytia. Do not move them from Burytia. And NEVER use the bombers against a territory with an Anti-Aircraft gun. They must survive.

When you think you are ready to make your move, use all of your income to roll for the Long Range Aircraft technology. On the turn that you roll for LRA, load up your transports with 4 infantry and 4 armor and move your entire fleet to sz56 and land in Midway Island. Attack the US on the next round. That’s it.

Your bombers from Burytia can hit Western US and land in Midway. If you have any extra fighters in Burytia you can also use them too. The fighters from the carriers can land in Midway and the extra fighters from Burytia can land on the carriers. He can only build 10 units in West US but you will probably have 2 battleship bombardments, 4 or more fighters from your carriers and Burytia, 8 ground units and as many bombers as you have in Burytia. You are going to lose some aircraft to Anti-Aircraft fire but you should have more than enough units to overcome 10 US units in W US.

Personally, I think it’s wasteful to gamble the entire outcome of the game on whether or not you get Long Range Aircraft, but if it makes you happy, then have fun with it.

I don’t understand.

3 inf, 3 arm to shuffle throug North Africa in addition to purchasing a CV+fig per turn adds up to 50 IPC’s per turn. Are you talking AFTER the US takes the South Pacific islands? Or are the 3 inf, 3 arm coming from the UK?

Just saw this post.

Since I have only played the axis powers, minus Germany, I hadn’t noticed that the UK doesn’t help the French. Send an e-mail to Paradox at the official HOI webite. Paradox is pretty good about fixing problems. Although, it seems that they wait many months to collect a whole bunch of problems before they issue a new patch rather than fix them immediately as the requests come in.

I believe another problem is that AI ships have unlimited range which, as far as I know, they refuse to fix. Apparently, fixing this problem would require such a radical game makeover that they aren’t willing to do it. So, if you are playing Japan, don’t be surprised if you see a large UK fleet in the Indian Ocean even if you have taken all of their nearby ports.

I’m thinking 5 is a fine bid for full placement. With 1 inf to Germany and 2 IPC’s to Japan for a 4 TP build I think it’s possible to hang with most players.

You could probably get away with a 4 bid and only 1 IPC to Japan, for 2 TP, 1 IC, but with all this recent talk about US naval superiority and what to do with the UK Pac fleet, I’m expecting that someone might take a shot at KJF in the tourney so I’m leery about it. If the US goes KJF, then 4 TP’s on J1 really helps evacuate most of the islands quickly enough to get the infantry to the mainland and the TP’s back into an attack position before the US gets rolling.

But, judging from jsp’s post, our team might have a small disagreement on what bid is too low.

@Shining:

The UK Pacific fleet is worth alot more than 28 IPC’s…… it’s an AC 2 TRN 1 FGT 1 SS 1 DD

  62 IPC’s … it’s a strong force and should be used to it’s fullest… because 62 IPC’s worth of navy NOT used and killed by Japan is just horrible… as NoMercy and I learned in our early games.

So then Japan just ignores that fleet. Not interdicting Japanese shipping by trying to preserve those units allows Japan more space to operate, to easily destroy the US fleet in Hawaii, and now the UK fleet is not only out of position to be effective but also, since it can’t get any larger, it won’t get very far into the Pacific. The Japanese navy usually operates in one big fleet or in two smaller fleets in close proximity to one another. The UK fleet is no match for the Japanese combined fleet and if you get within range of it you will end up being destroyed with very little Japanese losses.

You are simply better off killing what you can early and/or flooding the ocean with individual units to draw parts of the Japanese fleet out of position to slow them down.

The point that Switch is trying to make is that the US will be operating in Japanese controlled waters. Once the US moves beyond the Solomans they are subject to having naval reinforcements from the Western US cut off from the rest of the fleet in the Pacific.

Switch knows that by strafing the US fleet and trading TP’s the US will be unable to take any more islands. His reasoning is that after trading TP’s, Japan can strategically position their fleet to rebuild their navy and transports safely while at the same time threatening the oncoming US reinforcements which will force the US to retreat their advanced fleet back to protect their reinforcing units. Newly built Japanese warships and transports are immediately useful while newly built US ships are not. A transport trade sets the Japanese back 1 turn but it sets the US back 2 or 3 turns. And Japan can perform this action as many times as is necessary until Russia falls. It’s very effective and I agree with him completely.

Switch, my feelings exactly. And you mean 2 more units on J1.

It means both the Japan based armor AND artillery are hitting the beach J1. That may not seem like much, but it immediately puts the Russian infantry in Yak on their heels when you’ve got 4 inf, 1 art, 1 arm in Bury with air support available.

And it turns at least seven different shades of ugly if the Russian player pushed 6 inf into Bury on R1 expecting that TP to be sunk. Japan could reliably attack China, Bury and Hawaii on J1. The US fleet crushed AND the Siberian front wide open for a big push.

And Sankt, I know how you feel. It looks like a complete imbalance. But, the value of those units is only 28 IPC’s on paper. They are units you didn’t build and they are also under immediate threat so I would say their value is diminished. Especially since they are so far out of position to be very useful for anything but sinking that TP, anyway. Think of it as 28 IPC’s worth of peace of mind. I would cringe if I had to gamble that 1 out of every 6 games I would be giving Japan a big head start.

Well, alright, I’ll agree with you there. The US can get close with a full 1st turn naval build. But that also depends on variables that neither of us nor the original poster addressed. By the time US1 comes around a whole lot of crazy things could have happened. He never really gave us the whole picture. What did Russia and UK do in Asia? What did the UK do with their Indian ocean fleet? What did Japan build? Did Japan attack Hawaii or not?

Our criteria for attempting a US fleet buildup in the Pacific could be miles apart, too. As far as I’m concerned, In order for me to even think about going after Japan with the US, Japan would have had to have taken a beating in either Hawaii or Asia and I would need to have seen some type of support in Asia with the Russians and/or UK. Otherwise, I think Japan is more than capable of swatting the US fleet and still put enough pressure on Russia to get an Axis win in the majority of cases.

Yes, but the problem is that you aren’t really going after Japan with everything you have. I see your point that you are simply using the allied units to help defend Russia and reinforce Russian gains. But, I’m just not convinced that it will be enough.

I can’t see Germany not getting out. Without significant Western Allied pressure, by T3, Germany owns most of Africa so the UK will be lucky to fill 4 TP’s per turn and those units likely won’t include any armor. In that case, Germany can easily go head to head with Russia. Plus, Germany doesn’t even need to own all of Africa. They just need Trans- Jordan. If they have T-J, they can force Russia into a two front war by pushing units up through the Middle East and this will free up Japan to slowly build navy to counter the US fleet and focus their ground attacks in the north.

Even with a full US focus in the Pacific it won’t be until T3 before the US can begin to press Japan and if you are going to be diverting about 16 or so IPC’s to Europe it will take you even longer. Japan will quickly be earning as much or more than the US and they start with a larger fleet so they can afford to focus early on ground units and turn to navy only when the US begins to become a threat. The longer it takes the US to get into the Pacific the more ground units Japan can produce. The more ground units they produce, the more territories they will take and the more money they will earn. That situation can snowball out of control if the allies aren’t careful.

The poster asked if the US can achieve naval superiority. The way I see it, if the US spends every dime in the Pacific then, yes they can. But, if they split their income between Europe and the Pacific, then I think they can’t.

I would have to say that the conventional approach is best. Anything else is just risking the potential to kill off a bunch of your units for nothing, in exchange for gains that would be a nuisance to Japan at best.

The India TP and fighter should ALWAYS be used to counterattack Egypt. I would rather lose India early than have German armor bouncing around southern Africa relatively unopposed.

I have recently decided not use the Aussie sub to attack the Japanese sub simply because it’s a 50/50 battle. Your enemy will kill your sub and survive equally as often as you will kill him and survive. Keep the sub and TP together. They provide a much stronger force combined than separate. If you can guarantee that Egypt will be held from Germany without needing to use the fighter, then and only then, will I use it with the Aussie sub to attack the Japanese sub and land on the US CV.

And the most important part. Always bring the CV with the DD to destroy the Kwang TP. Always. No exceptions. Bringing the DD alone leaves you with a 15% chance to lose that battle. I have seen far too many battles in just ONE game (trihero, can you testify?) fall into the upper or lower 15% range to know that it’s not worth the risk of letting that TP survive. That TP must be sunk. Make absolutely sure that it is.

I don’t know Hawk, I’m not sure it’s worthwhile. 4 US units won’t be nearly enough.

It won’t matter that the Allies can out produce Germany, you have to overwhelm them. Remember, 10 german units can easily hold off 15 combined Allied units in groups of 5. Those units would be defensive only and with enough Japanese pressure they would just be forced to slowly retreat to Moscow. And by splitting your US builds, Japan should be making enough money to counter with it’s own naval builds to hold the US off and still land plenty of units to crash Russia.

I don’t think Karelia is a strategic enough territory to land in. Germany should be funneling units through Eastern Europe so you wouldn’t be able to completely cut off their reinforcements going to the Russian front. You will be achieving FOR Germany exactly what you are trying to do against them. Germany can hold off the Allies in Karelia and still make a push for Caucasus. Plus, without big US fleets in the Atlantic, the UK won’t be landing many units in the early rounds because they will be spending the bulk of their money on capital fleet builds to protect their transports AND the US’s. A large German airforce based out of Eastern Europe can also make shipping units through sz4 a very hazardous place to be.

What in God’s name just happened? I was just finishing a post a minute ago and POOF! all the games disappeared. Fear me!! MY posts are magical!!  I am MIGHTY!!! As soon as I learn how to harness my power to make things disappear I’m heading over to the nearest health club girls locker room to make all of their clothes disappear.

Maybe you could change the name of this board from “games” to “find online opponents” or something similar. Then make a child board called “active games” and move the games to that board. That way people will come to the “find online opponents” board to get assistance with online play, accept a challenge, make a challenge or to get tournament announcements and when the players agree on terms they can start the game in the “active games” board. It should help keep the challenges and game discussion out of the “tournament” and “active games” child boards.

If the Allies are going to go after Japan, then GO AFTER THEM. Use Russian Asian units to challenge every Japanese gain in Asia by pushing 6 infantry into Bury and at least 4 infantry into Sinkiang on R1. The UK should build the Indian IC and load as many units into as you can and, if possible, reinforce it with a few Russian units to help get it off the ground. Also, use the UK aircraft to help with the India IC or defense of Russian territories. DO NOT split the US builds. Germany already has a head start with the UK Indian IC and any units built in the Atlantic by the US are just a speedbump for Germany. Build maximum force in the Indian IC and use the rest of their cash to build infantry in UK to prevent a German invasion. After UK is solidly held, keep building in India and use any excess IPC’s to build fighters (priority) and a couple inf, if possible, to support the Russians against Germany.  The US should build nothing but navy in the Pacific until naval equality is achieved and move everything into the Pacific including the Atlantic DD’s, TP’s and E US ground units. Then begin the island hopping. The UK should be hiding the Australia TP and sub in an out of the way corner to immediatley add fodder to the US navy when they move in the Solomans. Or you can use the India fighter and Australia sub to attack the Japanese sub in the Solomans and land the fighter on the US Hawaiian CV to do more damage in case Japan attacks. Use the Indian Ocean fleet to draw a portion of the Japanese fleet away from the Pacific.

If the Japanese attack Bury they will make gains in Asia but the US fleet in Hawaii is safe and, with US naval builds, should quickly become more than the Japanese fleet can handle. If they attack Hawaii then their navy will be smaller and easier to deal with and the allies in Asia can easily mop up any Japanese ground units and take some money from them.

The goal is to provide Japan with far too many targets to handle and ultimately either take Japan in exchange for Germany taking Russia or to contain them to the home island so you can turn and challenge Germany with the allies before they take Russia.

This strategy is by no means foolproof, either. It can be slow to develop, Germany is essentially given a free hand in Africa and Europe, and if Japan can bog down the allied offensives, then Germany will overrun Russia before Japan can be put into a manageable position. And I wouldn’t recommend using it if Germany builds Baltic transports on G1 because the UK will be left pretty bare in the early rounds.

abattlemap has revised. It has a whole bunch of other games as well. Just click on the new button. I didn’t even know that the original Nova game was so whacked out with the territories and sea zones.

Jennifer,

the reason for Germany attacking Egypt is primarily to prevent the UK from pushing their Indian Ocean fleet into the Med on UK1 and keeps them on the Pacific side where Japan is better prepared to deal with them…

Following the G1 landings the Uk will counter-attack (usually) with available forces transported from India and it just devolves into a small scale action until the UK runs out of units. By then the US is landing heavily so germany’s gains in Africa become a distraction at best. It almost always turn out this way unless Germany beefs up it’s Med fleet for heavier action in Africa, but that presents a whole new set of problems, not the least of which is a weaker Russian front.

The main reason for putting a bid inf in Belo is to make a Belo attack by Russia unfavorable with just the 3 inf from Karelia and air support. Effectively, it forces the Russians to perform only the West Russia attack or attack Ukraine and leave their armor hanging. And with a 4th inf in Belo, heavy Russian armor in Ukraine doesn’t scare the German player away from counter-attacking them. They won’t have to risk armor to do it, because Germany has enough air for that.

I’m beginning to think that DAAK has it set up so that the bombers get shot down more often than natural to make their Low Luck SBR rules look more appealing.

OK Raven,

I think you’re a bit confused. Normandy IS Western Europe (WEU). Western Europe includes The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and all of France (Normandy). If Germany doesn’t have enough units to retake Western Europe in G2 then the game will be very short.

Perhaps you are thinking of NORWAY.

Norway will fall to the allies very early in the game and there is very little Germany can do about it. Let it go. Evacuate your infantry and fighter before they get destroyed.

And a UK IC in Norway is a waste of money unless UK is making more than $32 which is the max amount of money required to fully build (4 inf, 4 arm) in UK and transport every turn. Even if UK is making more than $32, there is no real reason to build an IC in Norway. Just build a high value unit like a fighter or bomber in place of an infantry or armor.