@Panzer-V said in Allies cannot lose.:
I don’t see how the allies can lose.
What I’ve seen and experienced it’s rather like the Axis can’t lose OOB.
Unless they totally screw up, like in one of my first games when I went for a grand plan of buying a mIC and airbase in Romania G1 planning for Caucasus invasion through the Black Sea… only to having to build those transports in the Baltic Sea instead. Total failure and a lost game in like round 4. :duck:
Actually that’s exactly what I think would happen! 😄
The choice is sort of empty, since I believe a Taranto is more important than taking out Bismarck. That’s what I would choose anyway. So I’m not really putting a tough choice to the table as I had hoped.
Better to just buy the AC and strafe 111 while wiping out 110. I like that route. The bs gets repaired already in G2 and hopefully there’ll be enough spike to hunt some remaining fleet while keeping the beady eyes set on Russia.
@Aaron_the_Warmonger said in German airbase in Holland r1:
Does saving the BB cost too many planes? Is it an effective long end strat? is it only if you buy an ACC on G1?
Shouldn’t cost any planes if you ask about the strafing. 2 subs enter sz 111 as well that can take extra hits. I guess 2 subs, 1 bs, 1 fig, 1 tac and 1 bb (on a note, I use this abbreviation for strategic bomber and bs for battleship) is sufficient for detering scrambling from Scotland and hopefully getting no more than 3 hits. Maybe even no strategic bomber. The British fleet gets about 2 hits with the fighter and 1,5 without it and the germans have a free soak on Bismarck and two sub fodders.
If you think about not having the bs in sz 110, then a 3 fig scramble against 3 fig, 3 tac and 1 bb is suicidal, especially if the ship hits can go to two subs. Might lose planes there, but the British lose more. Since there’s no bs in the English Channel, it can be good to shift over the bb from 111. Then Germany gets 5,5 hits round 1 while Britan gets 3,7 with the scramble and 1,7 without it. Also makes it less likely to fail (sic) with 4 or more hits in the 111 strafing.
The AC is optional, but considered a great buy for G1. It will be very useful in the coming rounds.
Not all of them go back to re-supply at the same time. Actually just a few once in a while. But you’re right it takes time and momentum.
Might be better to buy that mIC in Kiangsu along with two transports for J1. And settle for a total of 6 or 7 transports. Can’t do a grand swoop on everything J3, but usually it’s tough to get it all anyway. The next mIC should probably then be in FIC.
@aequitas-et-veritas said in German airbase in Holland r1:
in all actuallty it will not become a solid strategy
I definitely agree with you. The rationale is to buy an AC instead. So much more flexible and useful.
The main point though of the AB is not to save the BS 100 %, but to make the British suffer if they go after it. A heavy hit on Bismarck dissuades scrambling and it will sink, but then Taranto is off.
If rather Taranto is on, then sinking Bismarck is off. Bissy can then sneak into sz 112 or 113 and get repaired for G3. With the grand bulk of the British navy already safely contained on the bottom of the ocean.
Doing the strafe on sz 111 is a great sneaky move, but the downside is that there’ll be fleet left to hunt down in G2.
But not having that AC will make shuffling around transports and protecting 112 less easy. It’s a great ship to have in the short term.
@taamvan Then it’s an AB in Normandy G2, right? Does make Normandy an even juicier target for the Allies, while doing the same job as in Holland, except for where the aircraft is stationed, of course.
@WILD-BILL said in Holland Airbase before Sealion?:
Purchasing an AB for Holland is a one time benefit unless it also keeps your navy safe after the attack on London as well (is US in the war, and are they in position).
@taamvan said in Holland Airbase before Sealion?:
My general analysis is that you need at least 2 incremental reasons to rationally build an airbase (though the reasons could derive from the same situation on the same turn).
I have thought about this idea a bit and then found this thread.
Actually I think there are several points in building an AB in Holland G1.
The obvious one is of course having a chance to save Bismarck with a possible 3 fighter scramble.
Another is that you manage to take out a bigger part of the British fleet in turn 1, especially both BS, instead of having to chase down a damaged BS and possibly also a CR in G2.
The main point however I feel is that leaving a damaged BS in SZ 110 with a scramble opportunity leaves the British a pretty tough call to make. Either go heavy on Bismarck or heavy in Taranto. I don’t believe they can do both. Especially when Germany lands atleast one fighter in S Italy.
Strafing SZ 111 is nice for actually making sure to save Bismarck, but that also takes away the choice for the British. In a weird way it makes their life easier.
If it’s possible to also attack SZ 91 with 2 subs (risking sacrificing air in SZ 110), then Italy will likely be in a very good position. Those subs are probably better used in SZ 110 though, acting mainly as canon fodder both in attack and defense.
Yet other points of an AB is the long-term merit of having a wider range into the Atlantic as well as pretty heavy protection of the SZ 110 if Germany decides to anchor there. Also the air that is stationed in Holland fully reach SZ 97 and can land in W Germany if the British still decides on the Taranto attack.
I totally agree with that an AC in G1 is much more flexible and likely a better buy, but I’m still intrigued by the idea of the AB in Holland. Anyway, it’s definitely not useless.
Found something interesting:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/28213/holland-airbase-before-sealion/6
I’m bound to agree with the strafe strategy and ac buy seems better, although I like the idea of Britain having to make a pretty tough choice.
Ah, of course, you’re right. My bad. Having the MIC in Calcutta reduced to a mIC might very well give rise to the need of a new mIC close-by if Calcutta have been liberated.
FIC is certainly a sweet spot for a japanese factory. If built really early, I guess Shantung and Kiangsu are good, but I usually go with transports instead, being able to be flexible between islands and mainland.
When doing JDOW3, I simply build up on transports, having 5 by FIC and 3 by Japan grabbing all key spots (Philippines, Kwangtung, Malaya and all DEIs) in one slam, if possible.
This might invite US to Caroline, if I want to protect my transports, which I usually want. But the japanese threat to the Carolines should be rather strong the next round.
Thanks for the reply and welcome!
I did a search earlier and didn’t find anything, but will search some more.
The downside with taking the bs to 111 is of course losing planes in 110. I reckon Germany needs to hit both spots pretty hard.
Maybe it works with only 1-2 subs and a lot of Luftwaffe for 110? All that is needed is that UK declines the scramble.
Interesting idea with a strafe in 111. Unfortunate if it gets stuck, becoming a sitting duck. Otherwise Britain still has a damaged bs left, but I guess the idea is to take it out next round before it’s gotten repaired?
I have thought about an idea for Germany, which I haven’t tried yet, but probably will. The basic idea is to make the British have to choose between a much needed Taranto and wiping out Bismarck. With a standard aircraft carrier buy (along with either 2 transports or 1 sub and 1 destroyer) for Germany in r1, UK can usually easily choose both.
With an airbase and 3 fighters in Holland/Belgium, they simply shouldn’t be able to do both. Germany should of course have landed atleast 1 fighter in S Italy (after for instance strafing Yugoslavia), so that 3 fighters can be scrambled in both places. I also intend to attack sz 110 with 2 subs in order to get more fodder and save valuable Luftwaffe. I think the good division of airforce then should be 2 figs, 2 tacs and 1 bb in both sz110 and 111 instead of the normal 3 figs and 3 tacs in sz 110 and 1 fig, 1 tac and 2 bbs in sz 111. With the two extra subs winging Bismarck, that should be enough force to dissuade UK from scrambling or lose heavily if they do.
If UK then goes heavy on Bismarck, I avoid scrambling and salute the sunken ship for it’s heroic feat, while Italy goes crazy in the Mediterranean.
Should be worth 15 IPC if it works as I think it will. The airbase of course is inflexible, but still has it’s strategic merits. No need for an airbase in Normandy (or even to take Normandy at all) for instance, but bombers can have the same intimidating effect on the Atlantic from Holland, while also being closer to the other fronts.
I’m sure this has been tried, but did anyone live to tell about it? If so, please do. ;-)
@simon33 said in Factories and Facilties—Where, How, When, and Why?:
There is one time when UK_Pac might want a factory - that’s when Calcutta has been retaken.
Well, the UK Pac won’t be able to use that factory when their Capital has been captured. Usually the British in the Pacific is only struggling to survive. Investing in a mIC therefore seems very contraproductive. The same seems to be the case for ANZAC, which are usually pretty low on funds.
I agree that the Germans are in no need to build any factory themselves, but a Romanian one could have its merits. Generally though I believe it’s a worse buy than troops. Especially early on. And later on the need is less.
For Japan the naval base in Hainan is definitely worth it’s weight in gold. Not always needed, but the extra flexibility for the fleet is very valuable. Japan thrives from its transports and just threatening a heavy amphibious assault from sz 36 is great to suppress the British initiative and more or less forcing them to turtle in Calcutta. Also being able to go to Tokyo or the Carolines in one move is wonderful.
I’d say Japan needs about 2 mICs on the mainland. Building 3 might be ok, but they are actually not so easy to fully utilize because of the need to mobilize fleet. I prefer Malaya and FIC for being closer to the heat, but Kwangtung is also viable. I guess Kiangsu, Shantung and even Manchuria are possible, but lose the territory and the factory goes down with it. They’re also a bit far off. I usually go with transports early with Japan and only build mICs the round after having DOWed.
I have thought about an idea for Germany, which I haven’t tried yet, but probably will. The basic idea is to make the British have to choose between a much needed Taranto and wiping out Bismarck. With an aircraft carrier buy for Germany in r1, UK can usually easily choose both. With an airbase in Holland along with 3 fighters, they should have to atleast choose.
