@Clyde85 said in Strange Italian Strategy:
WHO SUMMONS ME FROM MY SLUMBER!!!
I’m impressed. Happy you showed up. Then I’ve done atleast something of positive significance around here. ;)
@Clyde85 said in Strange Italian Strategy:
but seriously, who’s resurrecting long dead threads?
Just some wanna-be-Jesus believing in resurrection.
trulpen’s Save the Bismarck and aim for a sneaky I2 DOW [OOB G40 2nd]
If not minding to hold out with entering Russia until G3, while getting the sweet 5 IPC Trade with Russia for 3 rounds. Or if the strafe in Yugoslavia outperformed and the army got stuck, why you then might consider to switch to a G3 intrusion in Russia.
Purchase (30 IPC)
Sz112: 1 sub, 1 des, 1 ac - 30
Combat moves
1 sub sz103, 1 sub sz108, 1 fig Holland, 2 fig, 3 tac W Ger, 2 sb Ger -> sz110 -> W Ger
1 sub sz118, 1 sub sz124, 1 bs sz113, 1 fig Norway, 1 tac Ger -> strafe sz111 -> sz112
4 inf, 2 art, 3 tank Holland, 3 tank S Ger, 3 inf, 1 art, 4 mech W Ger -> France
6 inf, 2 art S Ger, 1 tank, 1 tac Poland, 1 tank Romania, 1 tank, 1 fig Slovakia -> Yugoslavia -> 1 fig Tobruk, 1 tac S Italy
Non-combat moves
1 sub sz117 -> sz124
1 cr, 1 tr sz114 -> sz112
2 inf Denmark -> W Ger
3 inf Norway -> Finland +4 inf
1-2 aa W Ger -> Ger
1 inf Romania -> Bulgaria +4 inf
2 inf Slovakia -> Poland
11 inf, 3 art, 3 aaa Ger -> Poland
Analysis
With the power-slam on Yugoslavia, Italy is free to move both its tanks to Slovakia, while also setting up its airforce to be able to support a strike on E Poland or the Baltic and also bomb the Ukrainian mIC. No need to strafe since Germany won’t enter Russia until G3 anyway, having consolidated it’s forces for the front.
On its 2nd round Italy declares war on Russia and moves in. If there is a small blocker in the Baltic both tanks should go there, preferably supported by atleast one plane (same goes with E Poland if that’s preferred). Otherwise all three front areas can be annexed through blitz. This makes german forces being able to enter the Baltic or E Poland in NCM on G3 (also through transport) and also landing air support, letting Russia make the DOW on its R3, while still getting the 5 IPC NO from not being at war with Russia.
A G2-buy needs atleast 1 des and from there could include like 2 inf and 2 sb in W Ger and 10 inf in Ger.
As in the G2 DOW, the 1-2 aa’s can gladly go back home to W Ger in G2. The defense of W Ger can be a little bit stronger now with 2 extra trannies on the table shuffling troops to Leningrad from Ger, where a train of 6 inf/art can go from W Ger to Ger each round, so they’re not as needed, but will probably get more useful on the western front anyway.
@Cow said in Germany playbook: overall strategy guide:
Feel free to make a contribution for any strategy!
trulpen’s Save the Bismarck and push for a G2 DOW on Russia [OOB G40 2nd]
I’ve been looking for a way for Germany to save its battleship and at the same time aim for a G2 DOW against Russia. I believe there is a significant strategical gain with a G2 DOW instead of G3, but Germany needs the muscles to show. This is what I’ve (with help of critical input from @barnee, @simon33, @taamvan, @aequitas-et-veritas and @Argothair regarding a crazy idea of a G1 ab in Holland) come up with:
Purchase (30 IPC)
Sz112: 2 tr, 1 ac - 30
Combat moves
1 sub sz103, 1 sub sz108, 1 fig Holland, 2 fig, 3 tac W Ger, 2 sb Ger -> sz110 -> W Ger
1 sub sz118, 1 sub sz124, 1 bs sz113, 1 fig Norway, 1 tac Ger -> strafe sz111 -> sz112
4 inf, 2 art, 3 tank Holland, 3 tank S Ger, 3 inf, 1 art, 4 mech W Ger -> France -> W Ger
6 inf, 2 art S Ger, 1 inf Romania, 1 fig Slovakia, 1 tac Poland -> strafe Yugoslavia -> Romania, 1 fig Tobruk, 1 tac S Italy
Non-combat moves
1 sub sz117 -> sz124
1 cr, 1 tr sz114 -> sz112
2 inf Denmark -> W Ger
3 inf Norway -> Finland +4 inf
1-2 aa W Ger -> Ger
1 inf Romania -> Bulgaria +4 inf
2 inf Slovakia -> Poland
1 tank Poland -> Slovakia
11 inf, 3 art, 3 aaa Ger -> Poland
Analysis
Now a stack in the Baltic can be strengthened by 2-3 tanks and 6 inf by transport, making a Russian counter-attack there in R2 highly dubious even if maximized. At the same time entering Bessarabia with the small contingent from Romania should be fitting, immediately putting pressure on two fronts.
To follow up the pressure on Leningrad, the G2-buy can be 1 des in sz 113, 10 land units (like 6 inf and 4 art) in Ger and 2 sb in W Ger.
Germany wants to get the bombing of Russian factories going asap. In G2 Germany can bomb the Ukrainian mIC with 1 sb (and also in G3, unless Italy did it as well). In G3 the (hopefully 3-4) sb’s can support the attack on Leningrad (if not abandoned) while setting up for bombing Moscow from either the Baltic, E Poland or Bessarabia, whichever is the safest place to be stationed. More bombers should follow.
Also the German Navy has three objectives in G2. The first is to hunt down any remaining British Navy from sz 111, the second to wipe out the Russian cruiser in the Baltic Sea (whether blocking in sz 114 or staying in sz 115) and the third is to plant a sub in sz 125. Not certain all three are attainable, in which case the priority order is as mentioned.
The 1-2 aa’s from W Ger might be needed back home when the defense is rather weak, especially in G3. They are simply better for defense than attack and 3 aa’s on the eastern front should suffice, with one going north and two south.
Yes, it would need a fast mover buy in G1 when Russia plays for full anti-german front intrusion. They can (excluding the purchase) get 8 inf and 1 art to Belarus, 6 inf to Leningrad and ofc 2 mech and 2 tank to Bryansk.
With a 3 art buy in Leningrad R1 and the fast movers in Bryansk, it’s a 87 % battle for R2. With an inf-only buy it’s 71 %. Without the Russian fast movers, it’s a 37 % or 17 %. Doesn’t look to need a fig or tac buy in R1, which is good for Russia. But going for Iraq is not executable.
With a G1 buy of 3 mech and 3 tank a G2 invasion is definitely on anyway. It’s 12 % in R2 or 25 % with a 2nd tac.
I’m curious though if some middle ground is good for G1, like 1 ac (to provide good cover for a damaged Bismarck, and be useful further on) and 2 mech and 1 tank in Berlin. That makes the Baltic a bit dicey, but kind of in the favour for the Germans. Except the notion of lacking a strong follow up. It would be 51 % R2, but the Russians lose more TUV. With that extra tac it’s up to 67 % and about the same amount of TUV.
Perhaps one or two of the tanks in the Yugoslavia strafe can be allocated to Slovakia instead in G1 (and shifting the Poland tac to Yugo), reducing the risk of getting stuck and trusting Italy is up for the follow-through. With that extra tank(s) Germany should be good for G2 DOW. Also there’s the possibility of NCM transport 2 inf to the Baltic, but it ties up the German Navy.
If Russia can be counter-intimidated as well (with perhaps a 2 tr buy in G2), Germany would manage to secure a very important goal of grabbing Leningrad already G3, getting the overtake of Russia going asap.
Sounds like something I’ll try for. Otherwise a sneaky G3 should be main plan, going for 1 ac and 2 tr G1, but Russia will be quite a handful by the time Germany gets going.
Seems likely. But hey, who knows, maybe this’ll drag him back to the pits? 😉
This could be my game plan.
Buying 1 sub, 1 des, 1 ac.
The sz 111-strafe (with 2 sub, 1 bs, 1 fig, 1 tac) retreating Bismarck and hopefully also a sub to 112 seems like a pretty darn good move.
Killing off sz 110 with 2 subs and all remaining available air (3 fig, 3 tac and 2 sb).
Strafe Yugo with 6 inf, 2 art, 3 tank, 1 fig and retreat to Romania. If that’s a fail, meaning getting stuck in Yugo, then likely try for the I2 DOW-move, where Germany does not DOW at all, yet enters Russia (Baltic and hopefully also Bessarabia or next best E Poland) on G3 while not being at war.
Pick up Bulgaria.
All available land + the Poland tac to France.
Shifting units to Poland and 1 aa to Germany (the aa likely moves back later for the likely needed defence of W Germany in G3).
Put the remaining sub in sz 124. Sure, it can hit sz 106 for pretty good gains, but it’s a 50/50-battle or even a 40/60 if you regard the transport to be included in the needed objective. I believe it can be put to better use later, if allowed to, and I also do prefer the Brits having to invest resources to hunt that sub down. Even better if they combine their remaining fleet from sz 111 with a des from sz 109 to kill it off, since then I only have one target in the North Sea during G2.
If Russia sets up optimally, I think entering the Baltic without reserves on the go is problematic. Then stacking in E Poland could be better. Likely in that situation Germany might get a little stuck on G3, but the nice part is that Russia then has to choose between protecting the northern or the southern provinces. Germany should be able to move accordingly as long as there is no serious threat of getting wiped out.
@simon33 said in Thoughts on Allies Strategy:
You don’t really need to use Italian aircraft if you just want to NCM 2 more ground units to Baltic States, although if you want to amphibiously assault Novgorod, and can’t stand in SZ112 as Germany, I guess you do.
Lets say Russia blocks with its cr in sz 114, then killing it G2 ties up some fleet. Of course only a sub if available. An des, cr and loaded ac moving into sz 115 on the NCM should be safe enough against the Russian sub and air. Yes, it’s certainly doable, but in that case really needs the 1 sub, 1 des, 1 ac buy in G1.
Now it gets even sneakier. If Italy is able to land a tank in the Baltic I2, then Germany can step in G3 along with air for protection and 2-6 inf/art extra from transports depending on the G1- and G2-builds. That should be tough for Russia to attack, especially with a reserve in Poland, and Leningrad is hanging pretty loose. The German fleet will also only be needed in sz 115 by G3, which is a big plus.
I must say this plan proposes a German power-slam on Yugoslavia, allowing two Italian tanks to travel to Slovakia on I1. If you’re not too concerned about Italy getting Greece, then annex Bulgaria and quite a bit of German force can also enter either E Poland or Bessarabia on G3. I like the latter, especially if Ukraine is being bombed.
My only concern is that the invasion of Russia G3 is a tad late. That is likely somewhat mitigated by being strong and well supported. If Russia abandons Leningrad and doesn’t much threaten to counter-attack it (going for instance with the main army to Bryansk or Smolensk, instead of settling in Belarus - by which time any slow movers from Moscow will arrive, probably making a Belarus stack in R3 rather impressive), the stacks from Baltic and Poland can unite in E Poland with the goal set for the Southern Provinces, while Leningrad will produce in the north and also be supported with transport landings.
Defending against 2 tanks along with 2 figs and possibly 1 sb if need be seems to be rather challenging for Russia. On the other hand they can easily already on R2 see what is coming for them.
I guess Russias best bet in a situation like that is to be able to intimidate the German invasion force. Will it be possible with a full inf/art buy in R1 and fast movers from Moscow in R2? I suppose it will. Can be a hefty bunch with a bite if not only inf. Question is if Russia in that situation can afford to be without it’s initial 2 mechs and 2 tanks, thinking of Iraq?
@The-Pripet-Martian said in General strategy question:
For example, 3 defending INF can be expected to get one hit per combat round. If you send in enough planes to ensure you’ll kill all 3 enemy INF, you only need to send 2 INF in to secure the territory.
According to probability, yes, but in practise, if you really need that territory, I’d go in with atleast 3 inf. Hitting 2 with 3 inf on def is not too uncommon. Hitting 3 is rather unlikely.
On top of that it also depends who will earn from a war of attrition. If I do, I go, no worries. If I don’t, I won’t, unless it’s for clear strategical and tactical purposes (like your opponent not being able to land planes in a stack next to your Capital).
If waiting for G3, I like the sneaky Italian move, getting both the intrusion G3 as well as the NO. It’s not available though without high risk if Russia leaves blocking infantry, but then they’ll just lose valuable troops in the German invasion instead.
The initiative is essential, so if it’s possible to stack in the Baltic or E Poland G2 without risking being annihilated, Germany should be well off doing it. Perhaps with the help from a transport landing, which probably requires Italy to risk aircraft on a Russian cruiser in sz 114. Probably not worth it.
One upside is that the mIC in Ukraine and/or Leningrad (less likely with possible intercept) can be bombed (1 or 2 sb’s) already in G2. On the other hand the bombing of Ukraine can be done by Italy and Germany likely has good use of it’s bombers in other areas.
To turn the perspective back to the thread subject, I’d be rather happy with Russia for an extra round of full mobilization.
@Clyde85 said in Strange Italian Strategy:
It sounds like a great Idea, but could you be more specific?
Assault with enough land units to be able to take them as losses and make sure the fight odds are sufficient for not risking your own airforce. Or if it’s a strict sea battle, bring in some soaking units like battleship and destroyers.
Fighters miss 1/3, so they’re hardly auto-hitting you. And they’re expensive losses.
@Clyde85 said in Strange Italian Strategy:
With big countries Like Germany and Japan it works great. They have a large starting force, and so can afford to wait, somewhat.
I know it’s 9 years later, but… that simply isn’t true. Neither Germany or Japan affords to wait. I agree with what has been said that if they give up their precious initiative, they’re toast.
Waiting to DOW on Russia until G4 is like inviting a big, up-bolstered Russia to simply just scare the German invasion to a halt by the front. And Japan running out of ground units on the mainland or lacking transports to shuffle around troops among the islands is going nowhere as is their income.
Hehe, wrong thread, I know, but how come is that? Doesn’t Germany come at a disadvantage by prolonging the DOW against Russia? Or is it the trick with two tanks I2 taking over Russian front territories, keeping the 5 IPC NO for Germany for not being at war while still managing to get one step closer to key objectives?
The Russian Bear seems to get rather ugly when untaunted…
Of course, Turkmenistan… if E Persia and Persia has come under UK control. So they can attack in R3, same as the other route if G2 DOW. That’s neat. :)
On the other hand Russia can attack Iraq R3 the more direct route if NW Persia has been converted R2 or UK2, with the advantage to be in Caucasus and closer to the front against Germany.
Sorry for asking, but is the G2 DOW rare? You mean G1 DOW is generally prefered?
Sounds like you guys are leaning towards an Allied auto win. How did the tweaks turn out?
Japan will become a true power-house only if you let them. The challenge for the Allies in the Pacific is to work together in order to harass and try to strategically set-back Japan. They might be terrifying with those 21 planes, but they can’t be everywhere all at once. It’s all zen.
I think Japan is pretty easy to play the first 4-5 rounds, but then things might get real messy for them. If the Allies manage to put enough pressure on the board.
Another nice feature of the game is that both sides get pretty tricky decisions to make. Especially the US has to choose how to divide it’s resources and impact.
Young Grasshopper, you made some extra NOs that I think might make up some good balance of the game. Especially the 5 extra IPC to US and USSR, 3 extra to ANZAC and usually about 2 extra to UK. How has the experience been with them?
Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention to which thread this was. Got the impression that it was A&A 1941, but it is the 50th Anniversary version. I haven’t played it, but was reasoning from the mini-version of 1941.
Perhaps someone else has a proper opinion. Would guess that Sea Lion is more possible in this version.
I presume you are referring to the 1941 version of A&A.
Looks to be extremely difficult.
Buying an AC G1 and then a TR in G2 will still be far from able to succeed with a Sea Lion operation.
In any case I think Germany should smash most of the British Navy in G1. Saving the BS might make a TR buy possible already in G1, but the Brits can attack that fleet with a sub and two planes, likely sinking the lot.
Meanwhile the German income will start to decline when Russia can go offensive.
No, just sounds like a plain bad idea to me. Crush Russia first, then focus west.
Yes, I’m aware of that. My thought is simply that NW Persia gets annected by the 2 ruskies in Caucasus after GDOW (or they just go there if NW Persia is British already) with mech(s) and tank(s) lurking in Caucasus for an Iraq hit (preferably including air support) the following round taking the inf as causalties.
The point being that taking the route through Persia to collect 2 inf would postpone the attack on Iraq for one round. The income difference is 3 and I’d say tempo is of essence.
To that logic maybe Russia can skip the infs and just go full monty with 2 mechs and 2 tanks and hope to lose only 1 or 2 mech on the move. That way the attack can come even one turn earlier, but requires that Britain has obtained NW Persia already.
The backside to all this is of course allocating troops in the south that are much needed up north. So this strategy depends a bit on how fast Germany is reckoned to build up pressure and if these resources will be crucial for Russian counter-pressure.
@Mordineus said in Beginner's Strategy Handouts?:
if anyone has any feedback on how to make these better, please let me know
Just got the game and have only played it 1,5 times so far, but have more experience with the mega version of 1940G.
I think your guides are really nice! Great layout and clear to understand!
When it comes to the strategy itself, I’ll try and give some constructive feedback or ideas for (hopeful) improvement.
Russia
Definitely buy 2 infantry. Only infantry for as long the game goes, unless there’s an opportunity to be the aggressor.
When it comes to attack I reckon it’s safe to just stack everything in W Russia. [Edit: After making a small calculation, I think it’s not at all safe to stack up in W Russia.] Important to put pressure on Germany and shouldn’t be able to be counter-attacked while Moscow is safe. Caucasus only needs 1 infantry (placed as a buy) in order to block the blitz and can be easily retaken if Germany goes there. If you divide your forces, the Germans can perhaps take W Russia or Caucasus out while Russia are in no position to counter-attack. Probably Russia has to leave Karelia and Archangel to their destiny, since a war of attrition will serve Germany better. [Edit: Will contemplate this further.]
On a note, sz 18 (The Black Sea) is not available to any fleet intrusion, since Turkey is neutral and controls the channel. So no need to worry about the German fleet there. The Japanese is another issue for Caucasus though.
Germany
I’d say 4 infantry instead of 2 tanks seems to be the better initial buy (and likely also in G2). Partly for the defense of Germany and W Europe and partly for the goal of conquering Moscow. The 6 tanks you start with should be sufficient along with the airforce concerning attack spice.
When it comes to attacks going after the British Navy with the Luftwaffe seems worthwhile. Hitting Russia in W Russia seems too early, but needs more infantry to the front. So, in consequence 3 figs and 1 bomber against the bs in sz 8 (the sub can’t defend or be taken as causalty). Might lose a plane, but the Brits lose their battleship. A viable option is to bring along the bs and sub from sz 4 in order to save planes (they’ll just sit there and hide until wiped out by the British eventually, so that way they’ll be atleast useful).
Likewise doing an amphibious assault in Gibraltar with the North African tank and an infantry from S Europe (with the idea to shuffle them into Europe next round) as well as hitting the British aircraft carrier in sz 14 with 2 subs seems good. The fighter can’t defend and after sinking the ship the fighter simply just falls into the Atlantic for free. Not sure it’s wise to risk the destroyer in order to being able to retreat to sz 9, but perhaps it is. Those 2 subs will otherwise be dead meat by the British destroyer from sz 10. On the other hand, losing the destroyer leaves the transport a sitting duck as well as the land troops stuck in Gibraltar.
UK
A fighter seems to be a wise choice, with the intention of clearing out the German battleship in sz 4 as a means of repayment. Perhaps another bomber is an option, but you also want to have atleast 2 fighters available when re-building a defensively much needed aircraft carrier.
Don’t believe Africa is much of an issue, but those African Corps should move towards India or to assist Russia.
Asia is more interesting. Those transports are pretty vulnerable. Maybe hitting the small Japanese in sz 38 is good with 1 sub, 1 des and 1 fig, but the remaining fleet will be wiped out by Japan and then the transports can only scurry away towards Europe.
Japan
I’d say 3 infantry for the initial buy. On round 2 perhaps a destroyer can be wise, to start and counter the likely US mobilization in the Pacific.
The prime drop-zone should be Szeshwan, unless you want to clear out some stiff ruskies in Siberia. That’s only one step away from Caucasus and as with Siberia two steps from Moscow. Priming Caucasus has the beneficial effect of co-working with the Germans in getting a strong hold of Caucasus.
Taking out the American battleship in sz 40 looks like a no-brainer, but might need an amphibious assault of Hawaii in order to dissuade a US counter-attack (making the Japanese aircraft able to land, not forcing to take them as causalties before the carrier). Might be enough with 2 infantry and 1 fighter to get the job done, while 1 ac, 1 bs, 1 fig and 1 bomber goes for a clean strike on the bs without causalties. [Edit: US does have some counter-punch adding the bomber from E US. Likely Japan can’t just put it’s navy by Hawaii risking a counter-attack from the US, which they’ll benifit having a higher income, so perhaps risk sacrificing a fighter and get stationed by Wake Island is better?]
The carrier and destroyer in sz 46 can hit the British where it hurts. With Szechwan conquered, the transport in sz 46 is safe from sneaky air-attacks from India (be careful if the fighter is somewhere else so it’s on the table, if so, keep the carrier along with the transport).
Japan should aim to shuffle troops towards Russia along with using it’s 2 transports to take control of the Southern Islands.
US
As with the other nations, I believe 1 transport and 2 infantry in E US is the way to go, saving 4 IPC for the next round. The US plan in Europe is to support the British invasion towards Germany, and infantry is just so much more cost effective regarding defense. Another option is to either replace the battleship in the Pacific or going 1 destroyer and 1 submarine (saving 3 IPC) for the Navy build-up against Japan. This is a tough call, but might be that KGF is more important. [Edit: Not sure about this really. Giving Japan free hands in the Pacific will make them to soon outproduce the US, and then a counter in the Pacific will not be executable. I’m leaning towards a KJF-strategy now, especially since the Allies need Tokyo as well.]
Think it’s good what you wrote that US should choose were to focus and stick with it to make an impact.
@simon33 said in Thoughts on Allies Strategy:
USSR taking down the middle east ASAP was an absolute boon. 7 extra production from turn 3 (2 on turn 2) with a G2 DOW helped keep the USSR going.
Why not skip the intermission of Persia and go immediately for Iraq with the 2 inf in Caucasus? And take Persia with either the Brits UK1 or Sovjet the turn after Iraq crush? Apart from the fact that Russia does not know when GDOW will happen, unless GDOW1. But the longer Germany hesitates, the better for Mother Russia…
