Posts made by trihero

A: SZ battle goes better than expected (or just as expected) for Germany. Germany beats UK navy and still has some naval units left. What then? These are then unprotected and thus picked off, but even if they aren’t, what is Germany going to do with them? Invade UK after G2?

I never said Germany was meant to be naval power; the whole point of the Baltic fleet is to be suicidal and to delay. For the price of 16 IPCs this is well worth it.

A: SZ battle goes better than expected (or just as expected) for Germany. Germany beats UK navy and still has some naval units left. What then? These are then unprotected and thus picked off, but even if they aren’t, what is Germany going to do with them? Invade UK after G2? That’s not going to happen. Link up with the Med. navy? Well if that’s what you wanted to do then why didn’t Germany just place the G1 naval units in Med. to begin with? Bottom line: Win for Germany doesn’t help much (even though it is the most probable outcome, not much help is still not much help).

You can

a) Buy nothing for it, and lose it to 2 fighters/1bomber and the UK will likely only lose 1 fighter.

or

b) Use 16 IPCs on it, and cash in your entire baltic navy for the UK’s 2 fighters, battleship, 2 transports, destroyer, and carrier (if the UK is so stupid to try to block the link on UK1).

Hmmm……that’s really not favorable to the UK you know. Losing the battleship means no more shore bombardments, and even more reliance on the US to shield you. The UK also has to rebuild transports…and no more fighters to help out either…

If I had some naval units left, great! They’ll just straggle around waiting to die, hopefully claiming 1 or 2 US/UK fighters since they still have to be put down. I only think you should spend 16 IPCs for a carrier and nothing further if you don’t like the idea of 3 transports.

B. SZ battle goes worse than expected for Germany. Some the UK’s navy survived and/or some of the Luftwaffe has been destroyed. This is not likely but UK can capitalize on this win a lot more than Germany can with their win. UK and US get an unexpected head start into Europe.

It’d have to swing pretty heavily…. a group of 6 fighters + 1 bomber + 1 trans + 2 subs + 1 carrier + 1 destroyer will win 98% of the time against a battleship, fully loaded carrier, destroyer, and 2 transports. You would expect 5 hits on average from the German force in the first turn, and barely over 3 hits for the UK in the first turn…very most likely the both navies will be toast next turn with 1 and usually none of the airforce dead.

For 16 German IPCs spent, you have toasted not just the 28 IPCs that the UK spent to block your fleet in SZ6, but also claimed his battleship, 2 transports, and 2 fighters in the deal. You have also forgone the need to siphon extra defensive troops into Western Europe this turn, which can easily be worth the 16 IPCs you spend on a carrier in the first turn. You still have your full airforce intact a large amount of the time, as well.

Morever, the Med fleet is still alive and is more than free to go back to Africa now that it has nothing to link with.

I’m still confused how you make Ukraine a hard point early on. I’d destroy it as Russia…

Ugh….I’m quite burned out from A&A gaming right now. I’ve been duking it out with Switch in the game forum and with another guy through email. I kinda want a week of break from it  :evil:

Isn’t it pretty plainly easy to see that linking the navy on G2 is hard to deal with? And that if you try to block the link you’ll end up sacrificing tons of stuff you really didn’t want to?

I have some questions:

1. Why not use some more fighters to take care of the BB in Gibraltar? You almost really shouldn’t be losing anything to it if you brought in 1 BB/sub/trans + 2 fighters. More fighters helps it out even more. The Norway and Eastern Europe one can be brought in since they’re not doing anything else.

2. Why risk 2 fighters to that destroyer? I wouldn’t like to lose figs just to a destroyer.

3. Why not take try to take Anglo-Egypt? I would send 1 inf 1 tank from Libya + fighters from Ukraine and Balkans + bomber from Germany. You average above 2 kills on your roll, while the UK averages right between 1 and 2. You may have to sacrifice 1 fig or possibly two (hopefully not) but you should be able to claim Egypt pretty easily. This shuts down the canal for one and also denies the UK an extra fighter.

4. How do you create a hardpoint in Ukraine early on? It borders the West Russian stack as well as Caucasus where fresh troops are being mobilized every turn. It takes a couple turns for fresh infantry to reach Ukraine….and why assume that Russia is building just 8-9 inf every turn? I like to build artillery with the spare cash to get some offense going.

5. I would be a bit more conservative in your estimate of the survivability of the German fleet. I doubt it should take more than Round 3 to knock it out if the UK/US are focused on it. If the Allies aren’t able to drop troops on Round 4 at the latest they’re in humongous trouble.

Overall excellent insight though! Linking the German fleets is an awesome delaying tactic.

Well Ike I think our game when I crashed you on UK2 was pretty much a huge fluke since you didn’t have any of your airforce in a position to strike my fleet since you were overly aggressive against Russia and you were overprotecting Southern Europe instead of Berlin, but yeah still…it’s bad to not do anything about the Baltic…

It’s part of the combat phase. After a round of firing by both attacker/defender, the attacker can choose to retreat and does so right then and there. Remember you can only retreat to a territory from where one of the attacking units came from and all units must retreat there regardless of where they come from.

I don’t think you get the point. If you spend all your money on ground troops, the UK can very cheaply destroy your navy and ramps up transports quickly. You think you have “extra” land troops to deal with Russia, but you’re sending them right back west to defend against the UK  who doesn’t even have to blink to destroy your navy with his 2 fighters + 1 bomber.

And you speak like the destruction of a massive UK navy is easily replaceable. It’s not. The UK lost a battleship which they are unlikely to ever build again, a fully loaded carrier which takes 2 turns to replace, and a transport/destroyer. Now he has to spend a turn getting defense in the water, then tranports, then land troops. The Germans probably haven’t even lost any of their airforce in the exchange.

The major point for me here is that the more IPCs Germany spends on Atlantic front, the better it is for the Allies.

Of course that’s true, but if you spend nothing on the Baltic that’s also a bad situation. You clearly haven’t played against a skilled UK player who takes advantage of you if you don’t beef up the baltic with at least a carrier. Spending nothing in the Baltic is pretty devastating as like I keep saying, the UK will just mass up transports and get ready to land in Western Europe with no fear of retaliation, as well as threaten Germany/Eastern/Karelia/Norway once he gets into the Baltic.

I personally think that you must buy SOMETHING for the Baltic navy; either a carrier or 2-3 transports. I’ve tried going plain ground war, and it’s a setup for disaster since the UK can directly ramp into transports. Thus, though you think you “saved” money buy not buying a navy, you are immediately turned around and have to send troops to Western Europe because the UK can threaten it much faster with low fear of retaliation since your navy is dead. He kills your navy on the cheap since you only have 2 units that hit air and one of them does so on a 1. A carrier is worth about 5 infantry, and I think it is a very cheap price to pay to keep the UK out of my hair for 1-2 turns. If I had purchased those 5 infantry, they would have immediately been sent to defend Western Europe since a smart UK would start with something like 1-2 trans and a lot of ground troops and threaten a landing.

Overspending on a navy is more disastrous than not spending anything though. If you can’t field enough manpower to go through the meatgrinder with Russia, the problem escalates very quickly since the IPCs shift in Russia’s favor soon if you don’t contest the territories almost every turn.

I’m not understanding either how this is a good move or how it forces a UK ground unit purchase. Wouldn’t the UK player move the SZ 2 transport+battleship to SZ 6 for the block? These units would be supported with a heavy UK naval purchase for SZ 6 (a carrier+another naval unit decided on a case by case basis) and the Russian sub. Move the UK fighters to the carrier. US might want to send fighter support to UK (again, case by case).

That’s an extremely poor counter. The German attack on SZ6 will consist of at least 4 fighters, 1 bomber, 4 transports, 2 subs, and 1 destroyer. Running a dice simulator indicates a 95% win against a fully loaded carrier, destroyer, battleship, transport, and sub.

The whole point of the Germany navy is not to win in the Atlantic, but to suicide and delay. I’d extremely gladly trade my suicidal baltic navy for the UK’s navy. If you spend nothing in the Baltic then you lose 36 IPCs in equipment and the UK might lose 2 fighters, usually just 1 though. But if you spend 16-24 IPCs and unite the fleets you raise the cost tremendously and buy yourself some time. I wouldn’t recommend anything over that amount because then Russia will run all over you.

I really don’t think this game was geared for germany taking the UK early… I mean did you read the Tournament rules?  OK(whew), so now that we have done that … moving on… Yeah… its just damn near impossible to stop two nations with one in any naval engagement … so i must say… Men and Tanks … yeah i know this may seem against germany, 8 ipc = 1 man one tank… oh wait… that also = transport… again i say make them fight your war… buy nothing but men and tanks off the bat… use what you got off the bat to attempt to stop/slow the us invasion… and when ever the chance allows itself destroy transports… you have a few subs… lots of airplains and a bomber… i like the norway air base on the first turn… it gives you all kinds of options for that end… really if a transport = 16 ipc against you … is a fighter(ipc) such a loss?

It’s a bad idea not to buy any sort of protection in the Baltic. This lets the UK become a menace 1-2 turns earlier on your coastal lines. He will just build transports and he’ll be ready to board Western Europe on like turn 2, building a carrier on the same turn he attacks so that it’s a bad idea to attack his fleet. The most basic and easiest way to protect your Baltic navy is a carrier buy and land 2 fighters on it. This is a fairly significant force to deal with, and it gives you the most bang for your buck. I would, however, retreat the fighters onto land once it looks like the Allies are about to sink your navy; you do not want to lose fighters just to protect a sea zone; they are just sitting there to force the Allies to build up a bigger force.

The idea behind buying 3 transports is not so much that you’re trying to board the UK, but that you’re threatening such a move and beefing your navy up significantly once you link them. The UK has to spend money on defense, as well as figure out a way to get offense to sink the navy. If you just spend money on a carrier, your defense is very beefy but the UK is going to spend all his money to sink it, instead of splitting his money.

I would highly suggest trying to link your navies at least once; the power of this is very hard to ignore. Once your navies are linked in SZ7, the UK is forced into a very awkward position since his navy has nowhere to hide. The UK/US can sink it, but it is very likely that they will be spending a lot of transports/fighters to sink it on round 2.

You are sorta giving up Africa, but that’s not really a big deal since the Allies usually have it anyways. You can still do a pretty big attack on Anglo-Egypt with 1 inf 1 tank 2 fighters 1 bomber; you may have to lose 1 and sometimes 2 fighters but you will definitely win and close down the canal as well as nail a crucial fighter before it gets used.

No, you basically ignore the destroyer in SZ15. You kill the Gibraltar Battleship with your sub from SZ8, and the battleship/trans from SZ13 in the med. You must take Gibraltar with 1 inf so the UK can’t use his fighters against you. Sure he can send his dest/bomber against you, but it’s not a fight in his favor.

On the next turn, both navies link in SZ7. If the Allies sent the Russian sub to “block” your med fleet, simply use your fighters in Western Europe to clear the zone, then still link your navies during noncombat.

You won’t be able to invade England unless the Allies are oblivious to the threat, but it does force some extra ground defense from the UK player when he’d rather be getting transports/planes. The linked fleet is pretty monstrous and requires coordinated effort from the UK and the US to kill, a lot of which diverts their money away from transports to get enough punch to kill it.

Are you seroiusly considering building enough bombers to do ~24 IPC damage to Russia from both Germany/Japan?  8-)

1.  Staging a reinforced Baltic fleet off France to link up with the Med navy prevents Germany from closing the Suez and allows the UK Indian Ocean fleet to enter the Med, making the naval situation even worse.

This is actually one of the best ways to stall the Atlantic fleet. You do allow the Indian ocean fleet to enter the med, but it takes two more turns for him to be able to use that to engage you. Linking fleets I believe is one of the best strategies out there that’s available to stalling the Allied forces. Your linked fleet is enormous, it’s 3 subs, 1 fully loaded carrier, 2 transports, 1 BB. It’s also now in a position to strike at most of the places the UK fleet is hiding in. And if they don’t strike it fast enough, you can always send it towards the med to wreak some havoc on Africa. The US is now forced to do something to get rid of it (the UK can’t do it alone fast enough), which means he’s building less transports in the first round at least.

2.  A second AC pulls too much of Germany’s AF out of the land theater, and results in nearly 40% of Germany’s first 2 builds being spent on Navy, leaving them building land forces at a rate below Russia.  Any other type of Naval build is even WORSE in terms of IPC depletion.

Correct, I wouldn’t try this. Overspending in navy is not worth it.

3.  Relying on coastal AF for naval defense (massed figs/bombers in France) allows the UK and USA to get forces into theater against Germany before they can be counter-attacked, allowing the UK to do a strong landing in Norway and the US a strong landing in Africa.  Even IF both fleets could be obliterated, the land forces are already in place and can then raid German IPC’s.
4.  Ignoring the allied navies and building only land forces also appears to be suicide.  By Turn 2 or 3, the combined US and UK fleets can be landing forces equivalent to Russia’s build each turn.

I believe these go hand-in-hand; if you ignore building a navy you’re basically trying to rely on your coastal AF to defend. That is not a good idea, because the UK can simply hide transports in sz2 until he’s strong enough and then bust in to Western/Norway and build a carrier on the same turn to make an attack on him pretty much suicide.

There’s a group of very experienced players I’ve been following on their forums, and they think that the best German build is 3 transports on round 1 in the Baltic. The UK’s initial AF is not enough by far to sink it as it is, so you should link your fleets on G2. Also with 3 transports built, the UK is almost forced to buy ground troops instead of air/navy since they have at least 4 trans worth of equipment + 6 fighters/1 bomber about to invade London. This can throw a fairly big wrench in the Allies strategy; the UK now has to spend round 1 defending, round 2 building stuff, then round 3 to kill the navy. The US has to spend 1 round of a bunch of fighters or other assorted anti-navy stuff.

Yeah you do basically give up Africa, but think about it; the Allies will have Africa no matter what you do. Did you ever have Africa in our game that’s continuing? Not really, and I’m just about to wipe out the Med navy and all German presence from Africa on the US turn. I just kept suiciding UK infantry from India and Africa to keep you from ever advancing. It may be better not to spend any money down there and instead link up your fleets to create a big headache; one of the core precepts of A&A is to keep your forces together rather than dividing them in most cases.

24 IPCs in transports may seem like a lot, but now that you’re not spending/wasting money in Africa you should have about enough to still mess around with Russia, and a linked fleet does cause a large problem in the Allies’ strategy.

Yes the limit is only per “round”, not per “turn” (where “round” is one country’s moves and “turn” is a full cycle of all country’s moves). Therefore, as outlined in your example, you can bomb Russia for 8 IPCs in Moscow using German bombers then on Japan’s turn bomb him for another 8 IPCs in Moscow.

:lol:

Yup this is me, Anthony  :mrgreen:

Omg I just talked to Imperious Leader on the phone Oo

I live close to Imperious Lead too oO

How do I get one of those nifty icons like the Iron Cross and the Japanese Sun thing that I see some people have? I kinda wanted a UK or US one myself for yucks, even though Axis is my favorite.