This is all clear language Mr. Taamvan, thank you.
One question, what do you ean by:
This set of assumptions reveals that the only positional moment to attack him will be the one where he has to grab for his true objective. That battle will be at a odds disadvantage to the allies, but you have to take it.
Indeed, I to like to have an open debate without ‘tone’ or disrespect. I want to learn from others, and of course I think I am right sometimes, I have also learnt from this discussion. Next time I play the allies, I will certainly have a different approach. I will try to involve the Russians more and perhaps coordinate in what turn the allies should put pressure on Japan collectively.
But still think Japan is to strong! ;)
Fleet
The allies can buy, but not enough. You can only have a maximum of 19 units at Queensland in US4 (if you buy 3 carriers in US1). Japan has around 35 at that time (and can buy more, the US can’t). And you’re welcome to try to take the islands (which indeed always happens), but Japan not only has the advantage of a large unified force, it is also better situated to take the islands back. So in fact the allies lose more units then Japan in this manner. But the reward is more IPC’s, so we agree that they should try.
Russia/China
Japan has 19 air units. 4 are used in attack on Yunnan in J1 and 3 in Hunan. That leaves 12 planes, plus the bombers which can reach amur from Kwangsi… . 6 planes are used at sea, so Japan has 8 left on Jehol. Japan has 11 landunits on Manchuria plus Korea, and 5 transports in J2. Must be enough.
If you don’t attack in R2, Japan has to re-arrange of course. But from Ahnwe it can reach the whole of China and Manchuria (and Burma). So contrary to what you say the Japanese airforce can threaten northern China and Manchuria at the same time.
Germany would love Russia to invest 4 extra units in China by the way (Szechwan). And again from Ahnwe the Japanese airforce can indeed be a threat to those units. In fact if you don’t put the 18 Russian units forward in Manchuria the forces in Szechwan will all be destroyed in J3…
Still I don’t see how you are going to safe China???
IPC
My assumption is that if Japan takes the treasure islands one time, they have around 70 IPC. If they do they can buy as many ships as the Americans, and the US has to divert power to Europe. Japan also has the advantage of airpower (I like to drop this argument as often as I can :p), of inner lines and they are closer to the islands then the US homebase is.
But with how many Chinese units are you willing to retake Yunnan? They will have to be left behind in Szechwan. Japan can react to that, so I think it is a waste. And Japan can always kill them with airpower…
Japan doesn’t need 23 ground units, perhaps 15 will be enough. And you are right that taking all the islands in J3 will be almost impossible, but Japan has solved it’s problems on land early in the game. And will you seriously put 18 Russian infantry forward when Japan can destroy them all in one stroke?
When you have taken the islands it will be easy for Japan to keep them! The allies will have more dificulties retaking the islands then Japan has on taking them back, because the Japanese navy is better situated (it can use airpower from carriers or from land to retake the islands). Only if the allied fleet is at Queensland can the allies have better access to the islands. But then the Japanese homeland is safe…
The plan to threaten Manchuria in this way is a solid plan. Usually my opponent only has 12 infantry in Buryatia at the start of R2. That is nog enough. You need the 18 infantry. I will certainly try that next time.
But when I am playing Japan and I see 18 infantry threatening Amur, I keep most of my infantry in Manchuria and my planes in Jehol in J1. If they take it, Japan can attack with maybe 23 units plus landings. And they will do so immediately! That way both the Russians and the Chinese are defeated in one stroke, and Germany will have less trouble to take Moscow. Not only will Russia lose it’s 18 infantry, it will also lose all it’s IPC’s in the east…
China
When you stay in Szechwan in C2, you cannot go back to Kansu which is easier to defend by the Russians. So every infantry you invest in Szechwan will be lost in J4 in my opinion. That is why I retreat to Shensi in C1. That way I am in Kansu in C3 and the Russians (6 infantry) can help in R4.
When Hitler declared war on the US after Pearl Harbor (in my view his biggest blunder during the war), Roosevelt declared that the US would first eliminate Germany, and after that Japan. In practice he was hampered by the unwillingness of Churchill to land in Europa in 1942 and 1943 (“I have the medals of Dunkrik, Gallipoli, …, still on my chest”, said the English prime-minister naming failed landing in English history to persuade the Americans to postpone…). So actually the US diverted a lot of attention from Europa to the Pacific during those years.
In A&A 1940 the US also has to make this choice: Germany or Japan first. What is your approach? When you react to this thread, please put it in numbers if you will, such as 70/30 Germany first or 40/60 Japan first.
Thanks!
Thanks! But I still don’t agree. I don’t think the axis should risk 3 fighters, but I must say that is also because we play by different dice rules (we add up all attacking and defensing value, so there is less risk involved for the allies).
Thank you.
So we have:
1. Supplying Russia with UK aircraft;
2. Trying to keep the Germans out of Bryansk as long as possible.
This is all not unexpected advice if I may say so, but do any of you have ideas about how many aircraft there should be in R5 or how many turn the Germans should be kept out of Bryansk at least?
And other strategies/ideas to curtail the Germans are more then welcome!
Hi there,
Thanks for these challenging questions, I hope I can provide a solid answer to them all:
1. The transports in SZ 37/36 will be protected according to the strenght of UK presence. If UK does attack I don’t have to worry about the US in US3. My opponents usually combine the allied fleet, but if you don’t I don’t need much ships at the Carolines either. ANZAC is not within range, or else they are destroyed. ANZAC doesn’t know when I attack you see, and I can always change my mind. If I can destroy the entire ANZAC-navy in J2, I might just do that instead.
In my calculations the US can only have about 25 pieces in US4 to attack SZ6. Japan has 19 Air units alone as you know, and 20 fleet units (when I buy 1 carrier, 2 destroyers and 4 submarines). So Japan has about 14 units to defend against ANZAC/UK. Please correct me if I am wrong.
2. Okay I destroy some of your ships in J3 and take the rest of the treasure islands in J4. Sometimes I put infantry from Siam inside my transports in J2, to ship them away in J3 (this way it is harder to block).
3. I think you miscalculate. Fighters can reach Shensi and land in Kweichow. So if you move to Shensi the Chinese army will be destroyed in J3. I think the Chinese forces should move to Sikang, that way they live another round. But actually I sometimes withdraw to Shensi in C1, because in C3 I can reach Kansu, wich can more easily be defended by the Russians.
And my fighters are in Ahnwe if the US is treatening SZ 6 actually. From there they can also reach every territory in China.
4. How the hell are the Russians walking into Manchuria with 18 infantry (in J3)??? I usually declare war on them at once. If all 18 infantry (or less) are in Amur I destroy them in J1. So usually I trade Amur with Russia a couple of times (after they retreated to Buryatia) before they are out of infantry (in our games the Russians recieve an extra bomber to do that).
5. When you talk about attacking Yunnan (above Burma) with UK units. Which round are you referring to? Again, attacking in UK2 means I don’t have to worry about the US in J3 at all!
Again: WHY SHOULD YOU SACRIFICE ANY AXIS PLANES IN SCRAMBLING WHEN GERMANY CAN TAKE THE WHOLE UK-FLEET OUT IN G2 WITH MINIMAL LOSSES???
At the end of J2 my main fleet is at the Carolines, with 2 transports. I buy 2 transports to take Philipines and Kwantung. And 2 transports are in SZ 36 or even 37 (depending on allied moves of course). 1 transport is in SZ 20. Next turn the take most of the islands…
Of course I could relocate my fleet according to allied movement. Where would your fleet be?
And 13 landunits are in Kweichow. How are you gonna counter those with China?
About the Japanese air power argument: I know they only can attack once per turn, but JAPAN decides were and when they attack, NOT the allies. That is the main issue here: Japan holds all or at least most strings. So you cannot say the allies are going to do this or that: JAPAN decides if they let the allies do this or that. JAPAN makes the choices, and I think they can both take China and hold the treasure islands. If they are lucky in R4, but by R5 they should have both in their pockets…
Why should Italy scramble and lose 2 fighters and a German one, when in a counter attack Germany should lose only one fighter???
Well, if we’re gonna play by history the axis powers are doomed. The only reason the Germans held out so long is because they had a superior way of fighting (tactics: Auftragstaktik, operational: improvisation/Blitzkrieg, but that advantage wore off during the war…).
In strategic terms the axis powers never coordinated their war efforts. Germany took on Russia, and Japan the US. Hitler was stupid enough to declare war on the US after Pearl Harbor, and Japan had a bad experience fighting the Russians (a certain general Zhukov defeated the Japanese in the 1930’s).
So perhaps the Germans need a bonus to in A&A… ;)
But I really would like the powers to be more balanced, and I don’t think giving the US a extra 5 IPC a turn is adding to the fun of the game. Which is personal of course. Better give them an extra bonus in my opinion, or change the set-up.
If the Germans take Ukrain (and after that probably Bryansk) it is almost impossible to help the Russians with allied (British) landunits. How do the allies keep the Germans from taking Moscow? Or how do they at least slow the Germans down?
Any suggestions?
Second, most of the games we played the Russians and the British combined didn’t have more IPC’s then Germany. How do they get more IPC’s? Should the Russians go for Iraq, and perhaps even Persia? And how do the British get more IPC? Do you let them take Brasil?
Thank you!
Reading all of this I stil conclude that Japan is too strong.
Arguments against that are not convincing to me:
Let’s say Japan DOW in J3 and takes all the treasure islands/Philipines in one go with 7 transports (a strategy I sometimes use)…
Can anyone explain what to do (what to buy or where to place particular units) to make it difficult for Japan? As I said the Chinese army will be defeated in R4 by placing 13-14 landunits in Kweichow in J2. How can this be prevented for example? And how many allied ships will contest the Japanese fleet in let’s say R5? (In J4 Japan has at least 20 fleet units and perhaps 15 aircraft, without it’s buy in that round: 35 units). And where can it do the most harm? Does UK DOW Japan in UK2?
Thank you!
@Private:
Thanks! I have TripleA…
And are there any tournaments or something?
You can “play by forum” posting your turns in the Boardgames board - some of the content there are leagues and tournaments:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?board=40.0
Instructions for doing this can be found in the Software board - look for Gargantua’s KISS instructions:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=27127.0
If you are looking for a forum colleague to play, put up a post on the Find Players and Game Discussion board:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?board=52.0
Enjoy!
THANKS!!! Just what I was looking for…
Thanks! I have TripleA…
And are there any tournaments or something?
With the planes you are right: you have to make choices…
With the landunits in China you are not. Those are all from the startup line! In J3 Japan has 7 transports to take islands (or Japans has 5 when it attacks in J2). These transports don’t have to be fully loaded, because most islands will be empty. There are already 6 inf, 2 art, 1 armor on Japan, and 5 infantry on the other islands. That is more then enough!
I can always take Yunnan back with mech-infantry I buy at French Indo China…
If your fleet is not in SZ 54 Japan needs only to move its transports to Java etc. The rest of the fleet will be at the Philipines. So if you move to Korea it wil be sunk completely…
Where and when do you all play online? Perhaps I would like to join…
In J2 Japan has 12-13 landunits in Kweichow. So I won’t be battling for Yunnan after J3. In J4 China is gone and I put my fleet near Java, so India has to protect itself and can’t move units to China (or lose India itself)…
With how many transport will you threaten Japan? Japan has 21 planes so it won’t even have to buy anything to protect it. But it can buy a few infantry if necessary, or wait a turn to take China…
Well the result is that when Japans DOW in J3 the US is NOT yet at war until the end of her turn. So Japan can do what it wants until US4…