Posts made by Texas Holders

@Frontovik:

@Texas:

How much does the UK spend on navy in your games?�  What do the Ottomons typically do?

the ottomans try to draw time: try to contest territories, claim bulgaria and perhaps sevastopol/romania lightly. best O1 i did was neutralising the russians in mesopotamia strong enough so british forces couldn’t counterattack, and forcing Brits on Tranjs-jordan to retreat. the UK spends nothing on navy, unless a transport or 2. the french battleships are sufficient for guarding the navy.

Perhaps focus the Ottomons on just the British rather then splitting between them and the Russians.  How much are the Germans spending on navy?

How much does the UK spend on navy in your games?  What do the Ottomons typically do?

Without knowing much of the details, I think some poor play by the CPs was involved.  That is is the first game I have seen end before the US can move.

@DarthShizNit:

Buy two fighters on R1, then artillery with the rest. Russia with Air Superiority is threat to be reckoned with. I would avoid massing in Poland, it’s just to risky. Attack Mesopotamia, just do it, and attack the cruisers as well, you have nothing else to lose. After than, just play a game of cat and mouse, But if the Centrals provide you with a chance to hit one of their stacks, take it. My first game about 57 Russia units went on a rampage R3, the Austrian player was grouped up in the south but had sent most reinforcments to Italy, so I took the chance. My two fighters killed his one, and then the entire Austrian army of 30 units was outright killed in one round while I only lost 12. The German counter attacked with 35 units but was likewise killed in one round of combat after his plane met a similar fate. Then I killed the Otto/Bulgarian force R4 and marched into Budapest for the lols.

Basically Turtle until the moment to bring overwhelming force to play presents itself.

Why didn’t Germany just head towards a virtually undefended Moscow at that point?

I believe the basic line of thought is, the sooner Russia loses units, the sooner they are eliminated from the game.  Making a stand in Poland causes Russia to begin losing units turn 1, not to mention Germany has a pretty short supply line there.  Russia will lose its units on the defensive anyway, but if you can delay it until turn 3, 4, 5… the longer they will be around.

@Flashman:

I agree, its ridiculous that Germany cannot move units by rail through Austrian and Ottoman territory.

The players should not have to think “do I want to take that tt if it stops my ally moving armies through by rail?”

So yes, make it unlimited through friendly tts, but it must stop in contested. Make sea movement unlimited as well, but not into combat, including mined areas.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

The requirement that your power controls it or contests it is going to lead to that same ridiculous situation we had before the change to movement out of contested territories, where the enemy is going to move out of a contested territory or avoid contesting a territory to avoid making that a possible route.

It will be once again easier to move into a contested territory than into a TT your ally controls.

Allowing movement through allied territories will make it tougher on the CPs.  You could have Italians landing in Paris from Rome each turn.

Based on running the numbers, I think it is impossible for Germany to capture Paris in this manner.  Set up the game board with only Germany and France and see how long it takes to capture Paris…my estimate is turn 8ish.  Now take in to account that France’s allies will come in to assist and Germany has to keep forces in the east to avoid getting run over by Russia…  To be honest, I think the game was designed to not provide this as a viable option.  What kind of WWI game would it be if Germany could steamroll its way to Paris?  The western front is supposed to bog down; it is suppose to be difficult.  It is supposed to not work.  It didn’t work in the actual war, why should it here?  In reality, Germany needs to wait for tanks before performing a super aggressive assault on Paris to limit their losses.

@BJCard:

How is Germany pushing 50 at the end of turn 1?

They start at 35… can get Holland and Belgium and a couple territories in Africa turn 1- so you are at 41-42ish.  Did Russia fully retreat from Poland?  Russia can stack Poland heavily enough that Germany cannot take Poland easily (and probably lose more than it kills in an attack turn 1).  I suppose if Russia is full on retreat mode and abandons Poland- not a good strategy in my book- then Germany can take Poland too?

Like I said depends on what the allies do, but Poland was included.  If they don’t, then it won’t be as high.  There has been 4-5 people posting in here and everyone does something a little bit differently.  Any strategy that requires the opponent to do something specifically is a bad strategy.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

Tex there are multiple issues. One was what France would do if they were in Paris and an equal-sized German Army was adjacent. In that situation I pointed out that it would be absurd to expect France to attack that German Army.

There was also discussion of a more general strategy, where Germany and even Austria go significantly or even heavily naval with their buys, while they play defensively on land.

With the naval buys you describe, you insist that the CP can hold their own defensively while Austria disrupts the Med. and Germany disrupts the Atlantic, while Germany’s income is pushing 50. This is a far cry from anything I have seen anyone else report. You made a lot of bold claims, and to be frank I am not convinced the Allies were playing remotely well in the game(s) you saw this CP strat work.

There appears to be a misunderstanding of sorts.  The strategy I have been supporting has the goal of capturing Paris, so I’m not sure why you don’t understand how German forces could be standing outside Paris.  I am not sure what you consider a significant or heavy naval buy, so it is difficult to address your question directly.  Also, you can play defensively on land and still advance.  The most common French strategy that has been given when the Germans advance is to fall back towards Paris.  Obviously if the French do not retreat, then it will play out differently.  Germany is pushing 50 after their first turn, so I don’t how it is that hard to believe.  I did say it depends what the Allies do in response, but if France is falling back, they are conceding their territory.  I am working on a thorough write up that will detail a bit more, but I will leave you with this.  The game board itself tells you that the key to CP success is through their navy.  The game designers added naval mines to this games.  Such mined existed in WWII, so why add them here.  Who is affected more by naval mines?  It is clearly the Central Powers.  The Allies can move about with little to no worry of naval mines.  The Central Powers on the other are significantly affected.  The mines keep the CP navy in check.  Try playing a game without the mines and you’ll see who it affects most.

@Uncrustable:

@Texas:

what happens if the Germans don’t attack Paris with a 50 vs 50 stack and hold just outside and wait for reinforcements or bait the French into attacking?  The Germans are gong to lose half their units on an attack like that and I agree, the Germans have no chance of winning it.  What is France’s income at about that time?  I think that basic plan is impossible to win as you would be losing more troops than you are reinforcing with.  I think a mistake people are making with the CPs are they are being too aggressive.  What do the Russians typically do in your games after the Germans take Poland, but they aren’t going full force towards Russia (and Austria isn’t going to attack a 40-man stack either)?  Couldn’t the Germans walk up the coast while the Russians hunker down.  At some point they will have to spread out a bit to prevent the loss of all their territory.  I agree with the learning curve though.  The way it is set up makes it look like you have to play it the same way you play WWII and be ultra aggressive with the CPs when you have to use a restrained aggressiveness.

You also say the CP must be patient, but with a large income gap they cannot afford to be patient lol
They have to take tt and hold it fast else they are doomed to at best losing a war of attrition

Anyhow Larry’s strategic movement idea would greatly improve balance and give the CPs a real fighting chance!

Notice the question mark following what you highlighted?  I was asking Wild Bill a question of what he has seen in that situation if Germany doesn’t attack the French stack in Paris.  No where in any of my posts do I say that baiting the French is part of my master plan.  The CPs are losing the economic battle if they allow the UK and US to freely land troops in mainland Europe, hence my argument for a CP navy.  The CPs have the material and economic advantage on the mainland and can maintain that even if they divert some to naval purchases. I will post the numbers for all of this later as I don’t have them in front of me at the moment.

@Uncrustable:

Texas you did say that you would ‘bait’ the french into attacking lol

what does one do do achieve this in an axis and allies game? dangle bacon over the board?

That isn’t what I said I would do.  The question I had asked in that post is what would France do in that situation.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

I had asked once before and I was met with response that France won’t attack and expecting them to is an error in the CP strat.

That’s a pretty huge misinterpretation. You were describing a specific situation where Germany was adjacent to Paris and the French and German armies were equal there. How the fact that France attacking in that situation is a terrible idea became interpreted into being a statement where France should never attack in any situation is beyond me.

That is the situation in question.  What did I misinterpret?  Germany is pushing towards Paris, when would France attack rather retreat?

@Uncrustable:

You are right lol
And I can’t seem to edit my post

Still think 5 is too much

After relooking at it, we were both right and wrong, Berlin is 6, Constantinople is 5.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

@Texas:

You have plenty to defend, if France and Russia are attacking, it’s a good thing.

France typically falls back to defend.�  It’s kind of hard to describe something this complex and fluid in a sentence or two.�  Way too many variables.�  AH can also disrupt the Med.

When Germany is buying as heavily naval as you describe, if France is still falling back, it is their error and decidedly not the merits of the CP strategy that determine such an unnecessary retreat, unless of course Russia is just being ignored until they get next to Berlin or Vienna.

France and Russia are attacking Germany, Germany is buying Naval units which means they have less to defend with and, more importantly, less to attack with (they need to capture capitals eventually), and that is a good thing? I think what we really need from your tests are evaluations of the Allied play, not general CP strats that seem to be using much more resources than the CP have.

At what point in this Naval strat do the CP actually start advancing on land?

What does the income situation look like when Germany buys all these ships and barely attacks?

Well, for starters, at what point does France or Russia decide to attack.  No one provides any answer to that.  I had asked once before and I was met with response that France won’t attack and expecting them to is an error in the CP strat. CPs advance on land beginning turn 1.  It is a limited advance rather than doing nothing (don’t attack the big stacks).  Take what they give you.  On G1, Germany takes Poland, Belgium, Holland, and African territories.  I am not saying to buy all naval, but if you aren’t as aggressive on the offensive, you aren’t losing as much either.  Income situation is dependent on what the Allies do, but Germany is pushing 50 by turn 3.

You have plenty to defend, if France and Russia are attacking, it’s a good thing.

France typically falls back to defend.  It’s kind of hard to describe something this complex and fluid in a sentence or two.  Way too many variables.  AH can also disrupt the Med.

They can as long as you aren’t sacrificing your troops at the gates of Paris.  For some reason, a lot of people seem to think the CPs have to capture Paris as fast as they can to win.  They don’t and using that strat doesn’t work anyway.

It depends on how many battleships you brought with you, may roll instead of submerge.  10 subs will cause approx 3 hits, but you also have to take the damaged battleship back to port.

I assume your comments are based on game play and you didn’t even touch on their most effective use.

@vonLettowVorbeck1914:

USW is nigh USeless. 1/3 chance of 1 sub doing only 1 ipc of income damage. It takes on average 9 turns to get your investment back.

Submerging may seem cool but it’s really not that hard to hit the subs when you are attacking at 3 or 4.

That is using the assumption that the only reason you bought the sub was for USW.

If there are 10 subs, it may be bit more difficult, not to mention any subs you do hit have a 1 in 3 chance of returning the favor.

How much have folks been using subs as the CPs?  I am starting to lean towards them being better than battleships (BBs very useful for home port defense though).  They can bypass enemy ships, very difficult to kill off, force the US to escort their transports to land forces…  An interesting option with Germany is to create sub swarms and utilize USW.

Maybe my counting is off, but Berlin and Constantinople are 6 SZs from the US.  Kiel and Smyrna are within range however.