Hmmm, that would be a reasonable approach as well.
I was merely making an observation that each bombardment ship supporting each infantry +1 on 1-to-1 basis…is the same as rolling one bombardment die per infantry at 1 and not preemptive
like you can arrange the rules to appear as only a minimal rule change, and then people are less resistive
subs
wait a minute, you do know wolf pack has already been removed on you guys’ request (and reasoning)
so only Germany gets it currently (its now under Germany National Advantage #1) and only if you play with National Advantage
naval air
well according to the wording of “Naval Combat Sequence”
in main round, all relevant things fires (attacker before defender) and “hits are allocated on remove casualties”
you don’t have to roll some ASW dice, assign some ASW hits, roll some air dice, assign some air hits, roll some naval dice, assign some more hits…
I believe you can have timerover51 system in a simple way.
Use AA50 system but put value at ‘1’ and not preemptive.
Right?
I think its better to set certain goals
and let the players logically decide whether its time enter the war
rather than a huge table of fixed events as to when to enter war
I don’t like….
massive buildup at border but hey I haven’t touched you yet so you stay neutral lol
or
nothing happens but I’ll miraculously declare war on turn 4
oldsalty, regarding India and third world I think the problem is best addressed by playing with custom income values (rather than a specific rule)
AARHE don’t adjust it as it intends to be a house rule rather than a variant
even then variant map “AARHE 1939” is not that “pure” and gave India 4 IPC hehe
buy some number chips, Imperious can probably tell you where to get that kind of stuff
The way our group plays this is fighters (without attacking land units) are allowed to attack defending land units at an attack value of 1. Fighters are then allowed only one round of attacks.
your group’s interpretion of the rule is correct
the idea is that defending land units have nothing to fight so they stay in bunkers and what not
attacking air units in excess of attacking land units can still do damage, but at a reduced rate
I think its ok, unless there is a problem I am not seeing
@Imperious:
The rules already cover the idea of planes flying over to just engage other planes. Lets look at them:
think you misunderstood oldsalty
he is not talking about counter-air
IT USED TO BE IN THE FILE UNDER COUNTER-AIR. Now the section has been changed yet again and CA is not explained.
Tekkyy??? why?
yeah I got your PM
repeating my reply for others:
the paragraph “Counter-Air” merely explains the effect unique to Counter-Air
hence it looks a bit short
rules common to all air missions are written under the paragraph “Air Missions”
Counter air is one round of air combat using air values. It allows just air to air units to hit to model the control of the sky thing.
you can already perform an attack with only air units like in OOB/LHTR
air units then engage enemy air units
what Counter-Air is, is that it stops the defender from running (via air unit relocation rule “Defensive Air Support”) from the Counter-Air attack
@Imperious:
They are easier to achieve than the normal VC. I don’t see the value in them because we have victory conditions, and these most likely would be easy to also achieve if your close to victory.
Japan can do well and win for the Axis while Germany finishes the game without achieving enough of the national victory conditions
yes but if they have no formal duty, they are just fluff
they do have a duty
if you don’t achieve them, you lost “nationally”
Yes that was the idea with them originally, it should be possible for one axis nation to win and the other to fail
to me once you considered all the possible combinations, you realise its not easy to define how to end the game
Germany could be in a good shape
but because Japan achieves their conditions the game ends and Germany loses
doesn’t seem right
the quick fix would be to make national victory conditions the 4th game mode
that way you don’t have to worry about how it tanggles up with the city, IPC, etc game modes
so partnerships dont need to take place to the extent they do under our current VC. THAT was the entire point of historical victory conditions. I feel we need to make a batter effort to tie this together to give it vitality and drive this point home.
yeah, we can use national victory conditions as the 4th separate game mode
AS you can see some of these need work. They are too easy for say Germany to get them done.
too easy?
besides Seize Mideast Oil all of them are like end game situations and can’t be achieved early game
They have no viability if they are just useless ideas that have no effect on victory.
national victory conditions are a guage of national success
how else do you want to use them?
should war in Europe end when war in Asia is won by Japan
its a complex combination of team, national, city, income victory condtions, and also limited-turns game
depends what you want
I can do this, but the problems are with the 4.0 and not the 1939 file.
my comment was regarding changes to 1939 that you would like
ah, yes
thats also what I quoted in my last post
those are not grammar/wording changes or specific adjustments that I can just go to do
and my reply was bring up one item as a time, discussing them in the existing thread if discussion started already
not a typo to me
concept is that air units backup group troops
and can’t defend/fight effectively on their own
it is consistent with the other rules like
When only one side has air units at the beginning of combat cycle, air units fight with normal combat values
when matched 1-to-1 with a friendly land unit. Excess air units fight at combat value of 1.
I found it cheesy that by throwing away a bomber on a suicide mission UK/US managed to capture Germany even though it had 5 FTRs defending (n.b., the bomber was nothing but a tool to deny the 5 FTRs a combat roll – yes, the bomber did get shot down) . The FTRs never got a shot at defense because they were all tied up chasing the bomber… blood in the water!
this is an old area of concern
we could only think of overly complex rules to handle the relative numbers of opposing air units
The two ARM backed up by shore bombardment made quick work of the remaining defender, the Luftwaffe had to retreat by definition, and Germany fell.
note is it hard for allies to amphibious assault Germany due to the canal/waterway rule
ok now we deal with submarines
(enemy submarines as passive stationary units)
if you want to be able to move through enemy submarines in non-combat move, I am ok with it
if you want to be able to retreat into a sea zone occupied by enemy submarines, I am not sure about that (as mentioned)
if so I rather we let defender retreat into ANY adjacent sea zone
@Imperious:
I have to also move this to house rules because that’s what the thread has become.
could also prefix “AA50:” to thread name
coming from AA50 section the OP naturally did not mention its for AA50
So, if I am correct, perhaps the rule should be that undetected submarines can shoot at targets they choose to attack. That means if you attack with 5 submarines and they are not detected, then all 5 can fire at a battleship simultaneously and then flee to safety; but only if you are attacking with only submarines and no other ships.
Yeah undetected submarines should have an optional target selection.
I am also with you on the existence of “fleet submarines” rather than all of them being slow and battle-useless convoy-hitting submarines.
@Imperious:
oh
thought we were talking about grammar fixes
anyway that list is a list of issues and needed clarifications
first item
- issues on terrain benefits and how they effect naval invasions.
its going to be difficult for me to track down the posts of the related discussion
prioritise and bring up one issue at a time
post the question again or link a post
@Imperious:
Tekkyy : please make this clear in the 1939 file. I notice its not explained how these work. lets discuss.
ah yes the national victory
they are just used for assessment rather than ending a game
(ending a game follows non-optional portion of AARHE rules)
just because Japan reaches its goals, it doesn’t make the war in Europe ends
anyway I don’t have the time to maintain the 1939 file
its a doc file
just edit it
and email it to me and I put it on my webspace
Its more clear to say enemy.
ok
so
Phase 5: Non-Combat Move
proposal
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Transports.
becomes
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only emey Transports.
This is not the same meaning at all. It does not make note of the option of the owner of the sub to enforce one combat round at his discretion.
sorry, typo
this is about transports, not subs yet
so
Phase 4: Conduct Combat
proposal
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by submarines only.
becomes
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by transports only.
all good?
if so we look at submarines next
I prefer
cruisers and carriers with one hit move 2 rather than 3
well not really. Its too ambiguous sounding.
yeah they are points not text, I try to use italics when I reference actual text
anyway first up is transport as a passive occupying unit
(we’ll do submarine as a passive occupying unit later)
point: *friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during non-combat move
currently, under Phase 3: Combat Move, Naval Movement
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Submarines and/or Transports.
propose, under Phase 5: Non-Combat Move, I’ll add
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Transports.
point: *friendly naval units may retreat to SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during conduct combat
currently, under Phase 4: Conduct Combat, Naval Combat: Retreat Decision, Defender Retreat, I’ll add
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones.
propose, change it to
Retreating naval units may retreat to any adjacent friendly sea zones, or adjacent hostile sea zones occupied by submarines only.
I am not yet sure if its worthwhile to add a rule
besides Carrier and Cruiser, are we including Battleship?
if we reduce combat value, carrier’s attack 1 defend 1 would become 0, we then need clarification (like those regarding transports) to keep lawyers happy
we could consider reducing movement points
now I’m sure flank speeds are reduced in reality from hull damage, what about cruising range? does that reduce significantly?
Currently as I read it, after a hit battleships do not take mid-combat shots and any naval unit with 1 hit takes the next allocated hit.
both of those are not currently in the latest uploaded file
if anyone is alarmed, I can look up the historical backup to see when were they removed and track down forum posts related to its removal
lets resume the discussion
note none of the proposed changes in this thread has been implemented yet
we’ll try to be less ambiguous as we obviously misunderstood each other in the last posts
the 3 situations are related
*which SZ you can move thru in combat move
*which SZ you can retreat to
*which SZ you can move thru in non-combat move
so when we sugguest how to handle submarine or transport as an active (moving unit) or passive (stationary occupying unit) in one particular situation, consider to reflect, realistically, to other 2 situation
first up
currently
*friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transports only, during combat move
Naval units may go through sea zones consisting of only hostile Submarines and/or Transports. from “Naval Movement” in “Phase 3: Combat Move”
so shall we add these?
*friendly naval units may move through SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during non-combat move
*friendly naval units may retreat to SZ occupied by hostile transport only, during conduct combat
all destroyers and cruiser may fire an ASW attack roll or normal combat roll, regardless of submarine detection
in your example effectively all 4 ships can fire ASW attack roll at the 1 detected submarine
