No you dont, because they ship from the medd, and italy controls the medd for the most part, plus England didn’t use submarine warfare and didnt have the last great wars experience where it was a focal point to attack Germany, rather they attacked Germany by SBR. Also, if they occupied Brazil thats not a good argument, because Germany has the ability to park subs off the island of England, while UK does not have the ability to park subs around nazi controlled Europe, Africa and asia.
as mentioned, Germany’s submarines expertise can be model with an NA
convoy raiding rule is about naval units in general
naval blockade affects everybody
when there is an obvious naval blockade of Med Sea by Allies, its totally unrealistic for Berlin to receive Africa income via Med Sea
my convoy system deals with it all and we do not require addition naval blockade rules
but its ok, I won’t call your nation-specific-historic-replay system “trash can fodder”
Your looking at the location of where the money is coming from, Im looking at the destination of where the money is flowing.
actually my system looks at both source and destination, considers where we are building or raising infantry, this is the IPC path idea
your nation specific system only considers where the capital is and do not consider actual production, and the actual rule do not look at neither source nor destination
OK cut out part of the map and make a clear example with MS paint of how the system works that you propose. To me it looks now like its going to be a freeking chain of supply thing where you lose income if you cant trace a path of clear sea zones back to UK. That system is silly and tedious
only destination
it sounds tedious, but if you were to consider your “where the money is coming from” and your “the destination of where the money is flowing” then only a dynamic method will do
it isn’t silly, only trying to keep it real, dynamic, relating to actual production/shipping
its not tedious anymore, because you’ve reduced the limitations of what the path can be
(you said south africa resources can travel via land to med sea then cross it, and then travel via land to Berlin)
that is, no more shortest path restriction, no more must use adjacent sea port restriction
its really just a quick glance
in the case it is indeed blocked, then you just minimize damage (picking the sea zone with the smaller naval stack)
Ok fine, UK controls Canada, Canada ships resources to England which is fighting Germany, England is an Island economy and needs to import nearly everything to win the war, Germany has subs…
NOW IS THIS CLEAR ENOUGH???
I said “territory control and which unit in which sea zone” but you still remain philosophical
like give me a game example
here is one for your system
Allies control Altantic and North Sea (sz7, sz6) and Med Sea (sz 13, 14, 15)
Germany holds Africa (from Algeria to South Africa)
oh, Germany performed different to history, exposing themselves to convoy raid, what happens in the two systems?
in your system, you continue to let the Africa income (11 IPC) be used to build units at Berlin…too bad…we don’t consider players would perform different to history
in my system, its ok, we consider the current situation rather than enforcing particular scenarios, so we remain realistic…Germany will have to bite the bullet and take damage at Altantic or Med Sea, or just build at Egypt
Thats fine then we go with the 2 turns of isolation rule, Japan has a full reaction turn to stop the income from being cut off
I am saying East Indies, Borneo, Phillipines are high income islands and resources are not going to go poof! even under a naval blockade, resources can still be used at the VC/IC on the island
hence no need for isolation rule, my convoy system caters for both direction (eg. whether East Indies material is used to raise infantry at Tokyo or other Japanese material is used to raise infantry at East Indies)
[uqote]Germany damaged Allied shipping more than US damaged Japanese shipping
but Germany put most naval resources into submarines
WOW your starting to see my point…. now we just need to model only this aspect of what was possible and your universal idea is trash can fodder.
you didn’t get what I meant
as in, US can have better sucess if they put more of the naval budget in submarines like Germany did
lets say US president listened to another US general instead, and US use submarines as a delaying tactic in the Pacific or whatever
No NO NO… You can still build the 4x rule in those places, thats not effected. Only the total income for purchases, not placement.
so are you sugguesting a change to current rule of “4x”?
Yes everything goes? you mean England is not not an Island?
I only said anything goes once the game starts
as in the situation can change away from the game setup situation
its that simple, nation specific ideas won’t remain realistic in all games
Yes i like to stuck with the facts to support ideas in a historical version of an abstract game… yes admittedly.
but historic replay arguments are not going to convince me
I don’t want funny situations just because the game didn’t play out like the real WWII
if US could starve Japan and UK decides to have emphasis on Med Sea convoy raid against Germany, I think US would give a few tips to UK
again, if Germany is just so much better than others at submarine convoy raid, then just give them an NA…or even make Super Submarines twice as effective as normal Submarines in convoy raid
take out the map and just give germany 10 subs and then give the uk player 10 subs… See the potential damage each can have on the other under both systems and post.
for us cross compare, I need you to post your system in one piece (convoy raid, plus other bits like isolation rule if still you want it)
This is my one.
IPC to be spent must have a path* from the original territory to the Industrial Complex or Victory City.
IPC to be saved must have a path* from the original territory to your capital.
This also applies to lend-lease. IPC that are not spent and not saved are forfeited.
A path is chain of territories your land units may go through and/or sea zones.
Each hostile naval unit (except Transport) on a path* [see Spending or Saving IPC] destroys 1 IPC. Damage is applied to IPC of the path.
