oh ok for the fun factor we’ll keep it at 100% strength
so I am saying night bombing raid should only be able to reduce IC capacity rather than IPC damage
now the IC is…
under Industrial Complex Mobilization we currently have
The number of units deployable is equal to the territory’s income value. Strategic Bomber Raid [ on the previous page] can reduce this.
rest assured I am doing the changelog thing
tech dice
yeah I’ll be changing it to say die hit at “X or less”
its at a couple of places so I’ll look thru it
naval repair
ok so you guys want
*roll 1d6 for cost
*no more “allocate hits on damaged units first”
IL you mention move in and move out if you still have movement points
so you saying want to have instant repair?
DAS even when territory under attack (but not CA)
the rules is like this because the idea is that air force is VERY mobile
the only way force an engagement to do a CA
X CA units prevent X units performing DAS
you were confused before but from the most recent comments I take it you understand
CA on a territory you are also attacking
CA is separate and (like all air missions) are resolved before normal combats
you can SBR, CA, GI + perform a conventional attack on a territory
(anyway if we are revising this I would prefer we make it a simpler system…all combat in the territory happens together)
DAS for all units except bomber
ok I’ll make that change
Land Combat Sequence
air units (and Anti-Air) always fire in opening-fire
that makes it less confusing right?
the AARe team intended to the NA to counter each other
this is apparent in the NA deployment system
so whether its “no brainer” or “pointless” depends on what your enemy chooses
I see Tokyo Express being quite often
Wolf Pack was often a disaster in the game I watched (Allies react a little and NA not so useful for the rest of the game, feeling the NA is just better elsewhere)
more info
(I only had time to proof read half of it sorry)
tech die
it hits on 1 or 2
“hits on a 2” is just trying to be inline with original game terminology “defends on a 2”
Allies submarines wolfpack
yes wolfpack just requires friendly submarines
US/UK AP transport each others units
yep you no longer have to wait a turn in between
ships in “middle of repair”
the current wording lets you defend and repair at the same thing
feedback/comments required
building mistakes
this is not specified
so it follows the standard OOB rule of being lost
though it mostly shouldn’t happen in the first place, in AARHE infantry cost depends on where you deploy so you have to sort it out before then
“must be offloaded in combat phase”
this originated from the clarification made by LHTR
you can still load troops in non-combat though and leave them at the sea
it’ll cost you IPC though (explained in phase 1)
DAS when under attack?
yes air units can perform DAS even if its own territory is under conventional attack
only way to stop enemy from declaring DAS with air units at Germany is to use a sufficient number of CA units to perform CA on Germany
note air units defending from a CA still defending normally (in the same territory), and air missions are resolved before normal combat
CA stopping DAS
yes CA stops defending air units from performing DAS, though you need X CA units to stop X defending air units from performing DAS
note DAS is declared after enemy declared all combat moves and air missions
IL: CA prohibits the defender from allocating his planes that hes defending with against your counter air mission. So he cannot use DAS to support battles.
not exactly sure what you mean
neutral ship
when neutral ships come into play they are placed in adjacent sea zones, this is intended to be done by the new owner
(I’ll add a word or two to that section)
ID killed attacking air units, air supermacy?
your interpretation is correct
no air supermacy unless no hostile air units at start of combat cycle
its like this currently to be simpler, wanted to allow air units to preempt land combat when there is air supermacy
So, the question is: When does air fire once Air Superiority is achieved?
air units always fire in opening-fire, in land combat
It seems to be a semantic issue over cycle, phase, and round
I was trying to use combat “cycle”, game “phase” and game “round”
Air Supermacy and opening-fire
the idea is for air units to preempt land units
by the way it is dogfighting that we wanted to be longer and happen in parallel to land units fighting on the ground but functionally its close enough to have air units fire in opening-fire, to be simpler
IL: You cannot CA a territory your already attacking. CA is for territories that your NOT attacking with ground units and ONLY by air.
actually we don’t that restriction
also CA is an air mission henf resolved before normal combat, one cycle aerial combat and then goes home
If this were the case, then I’d just send in CA to tie up FTRs so there could be no Air Supremacy and I wouldn’t have to worry about bad odds with my FTRs (e.g., Dogfight ATK 2 vs. 3 DEF)
CA ties down only the same number of defending air units
and during the CA defending air units still have better odds
IL:Yes all defending planes defend for air superiority, however, bombers do not perform DAS mission. that is to say they don’t fly over to assist with defending territories.
no this is not in the rules
if you want to revise tell me which of the full list of air units can and cannot perform DAS
we weren’t doing the ID search roles and were just rolling straight kill shots.
yes we wanted to remove the MEGA Anti-air from OOB
OOB Anti-air is so scary people are afraid to use air units, which is not quite realistic
Just to clarify this – ground units that are killed by air units don’t get to fire this round and are removed from play before “Main-round” of combat.
yep, the combat sequence specificed when do you remove casualties
I’m still a bit unsure on this one. Do combat dice actually get rolled during a CA missions on a 1-1 basis (e.g., 1 round of combat), or does this just tie up FTRs in virtual maneuver?
all air units roll
but the part stopping defending air units in the territory from performing DAS is 1-to-1 basis
not sure what you mean by relating “1-1 basis” and “1 round of combat”
The only time planes roll first is during air superiority combat which is only to provide a separate sequence for air combat.
the combat sequence specifically says that air units fire in opening-fire
it is that way to be simpler and functionally the same
if there is something I overlooked then tell me
um, I say VCP and you say IPC…
I am saying WWII “strategic bombing” weren’t all that accurate
SBR in AARHE reduce IPC or “IC capacity”
night bombing would be 50% effectiveness or below, and should only get to choose the “reduce capacity” option
probably even reduce VCP capacity
night bombing destroys bedrooms
more info
SZ13 vs. Western Europe
SZ13 is not intended to be adjacent to Western Europe
similarly Karelia is not intended to be adjacent to SZ3
in this aspect AARHE is just as bad as the Revised map (borders not sharp enough)
SZ5
SZ5 and SZ12 are considered one sea zone
the canal/waterway icon are between the corresponding
so if you go from SZ6 to SZ5 you must engage enemy in SZ5
if you go from SZ12 to SZ13 you must engage enemy in SZ13
the situation at SZ5 is a little complicated and wasn’t draw clearly
we don’t want the revised-style SUPER SZ5 that was adjacent to 5 territories and 1 neutral
the Denmark situation
maybe there is better way to draw it that I overlooked
Canal in Denmark
the idea is that Denmark should be put in territory Germany rather than territory Western Europe,
the Denmark waterway is like Gibraltar, except with its promixty to Germany homeland it was a different kettle of fish
**repair at VC
interesting question, I didn’t think of that
I guess we don’t want inland VCs like Tehran or Toronto to repair ships
then again did Russia not have naval facilities at Black Sea?
it must be clarified (repair at sea zone adjacent to VC/IC…what is adjacent?) or people could consider ICs are built at VCs hence the same treatment as the example given at Cairo
dock at VC
does that mean we can’t dock at Turkey or Spain?**
you can muck around with the abattlemap map I pulled together in a hurry
download at the http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/
a while back I intended to take part in TripleA to open ways for support of house rules such as AARHE
however TripleA had no intentions to provide a proper framework to support the newer axis and allies games let alone house rules
there was a possibility of great things to happen for TripleA 2.0 but I am not busy with life things
FYI TripleA supports Classics natively, after that even Revised is a bit of a hack
well He-262 idea is too specific and has more merits as a National Advantage
without other reasoning coming to mind we’ll merely change it to only new fighters and bombers get the new Jet combat values
I’ll leave the drafting of night bombing rule to the other thread
so how are we doing with the conversion thing?
so is it going to be no Jet conversion allowed?
yeah should get them to know AAR trying LITE
depending on the crowd, some would be quick to see the shortcoming quick of LHTR/OOB
such as the long waits between turns, could be 45 minutes
and bits and pieces of outright unrealistic rules
though some would be reluntant even to use LHTR
if thats the case give anyone of this forum a yell
they’ll quickly give you an idea of how serious the mistakes/typos of OOB are
just remember it goes both ways, Germany player would also use the night bombing rule to bomb UK
so something like this…
no esort planes and no interceptor planes
ID still fires, still requires detection
no changes need besides forced retreat on 1 as well as 2-3
VC’s capacity next turn is reduced
-1 VCP on a die of 1-3
-2 VCP on die of 4-6
the night bombing idea is diffcult to get right
I am not sure about total immunity
we had radar, we had search lights
more like if they were not “detected” then aerial combat hits can’t be allocated on them
then again what about the esorts, if esorts were trying to hide too then it becomes very hard to screen the bombers, which then gives the enemy choice of allocation of hits
if maybe aerial combat is too hard against fighters at night, only bombers can be spotted properly?
then its just defending air units against attacking bombers detected by ID/AA gun
WWII bombing accuracy is laughable
if day time carpet bombing resulted in significant civilian damage but marginal success at hitting military resources…I then wonder what does night bombing achieve
maybe 33% efficiency
night bombing does fine when targetting population though
let them bomb Dresden and reduce VC (victory city)'s infantry raising capacity nex turn or something
controversial yes
8-10 IPC?
as in you want Jet Planes to make fighters cheaper?
what about advanced submarines
have you been playing no conversion?
we gonna need so many game pieces
night bombing idea is difficult to get right, I’ll post in the other thread
same discussion from the other thread
@Imperious:
oh wow. thats not how i played it. Otherwise Germany can build fighters and get all her planes instantly as jets?
thats really strong Tech….
Perhaps you can convert one fighter per turn or build a new fighter that will be a jet?
When we made the rule we tried to keep it simple in terms of extra game pieces and accounting.
But if it has to be differentiated then lets do it.
Cost per conversion?
Any free conversions and what should it depend on?
Or if it even realistic to convert? How many % of total cost is the engine?
Bierwagen is among the most constructive users.
We shall be able to resolve a few grey areas with him and add him to the contributors list.
Wait you are mixing the two tech system.
[A]
LITE: $5 a die, hits on 1
AARHE: $5 a die, hits on a 2, tech boxes, free dice, cap on dice purchase
[/A]
[B.]
Note that Germany needs large ground force to make the most of a large Jet fleet. (Remember excess air units fight at 1, in both LITE and AARHE)
The current wording is that Jet plane is an upgrade. Heay Tanks and Self-Propelled Artillery are new units.
I want to see if you guys still find it a problem after considering the two points.
hehe why you asked in NA thread…
The wording is that:
Self propelled Artillery and Heavy Tanks needs to be built.
Jet plane upgrades existing units.
So, we of course got confused and come for clarification. Resort to standard AAR LHTR 2.0 rules if there isn’t any discussion in LITE on a specific topic?
My intention is that if LITE doesn’t talk about it then it is not there.
So in Lite, IDs don’t perform anything more than usual. All those special combat rules regarding amphibious assault from AARHE are not used in Lite.
In fact the Lite document only mentions amphibious assault once in “combat move” phase.
At what point do the neutral VCPs kick in for victory consideration? I could make a case for either +/-3 (e.g., when you start collecting it’s income) or +/-5 (e.g., when it is fully committed). The rules aren’t clear or I didn’t read them close enough.
You count the netural VCP only when +5/-5.
At -3 Axis gets the income but Axis units can’t enter and Axis can’t deploy units at the VC. So logically the VC is not in Axis hands yet.
LITE doesn’t have the disclaimer from AARHE 4.0:
“Victory is achieved if victory conditions are maintained for one full game round.”
Yes i too agree. WE will have tekkyy add it.
Yep checking for YOUR victory at beginning of turn is a neat way to do the same as “hold one turn”.
I’m adding it.
Can you load up infantry on a transport during this phase and send them out to sea?
Actually my intention is that loading/offloading can only be done during your turn.
@Imperious:
Now if you think you can just move Spains army outside and take madrid, your wrong because Dec of war are made during the movement phase, allowing the new controlling player (UK) to reposition her remaining armed forces in spain immediately to defend against German aggression.
Don’t know what you situation you are referring to. At +4 Axis units can enter Spain. Axis can’t control Spainish troops. At +5 Spain is fully committed Axis. Territory and units goes towards a particular Axis player. So now you can move Spainish troops but you can’t “attack” it since its a friendly territory. Madrid is now Axis.
@Imperious:
Its implied. For example If during reinforcement phase Italy wants to bring some infantry to Africa. They can do this provided they have a transport and 2 units for each transport can be transfered to this front, so if you only have 2 transports only up to 4 land units can be brought over. And yes you can just send them to ‘sea’ if you want during NCM
No. Reinforcement is not meant to be a full movement thing.
The rule states you can move to adjacent territory or sea zone. Thats all.
What IL explained there is actually part of the “Strategic Redeployment” rule in full AARHE.
Stalinist Xeno
@Bierwagen:
So, the discussion ensued as to why Britain couldn’t do it if they didn’t invade and only wanted to kill a “few” Germans. It wasn’t like there were any Russians there to stop them?
Its not so much as to the Russian units stopping them. Its that the Russian government don’t want Capitalist troops exerting influence over the motherland. The game does not have a rule to handle free-for-all, hence Allies are not allowed to piss off Russia if you know what I mean.
Lend-lease
I also really like the rule that Lend-Lease money can only be used for material goods and not infantry – but, it’s kinda hard to keep the money separated.
I thought we don’t have that currently.
We didn’t bother with the distinction because lend lease gaves a wide variety of weapons and supplies including those that make up infantry divisions. (According to wikipedia anyway.)
Defending ID in amphibious assault
I’m hoping that this ID attack follows the logic of “Naval Combat: Hit Allocation” and APs are the last casualty to be taken – or as was postulated IDs can selective fire at the transport and kill the amphibious landing before it happens?
No actually ID rolls are selective. The procedure is the same as its Anti-air function.
Whats it a problem for you? How many IDs were in the territory?
The probablity of a hit is only a few percent.
Dock at neutral
Should you just move your ship into the country? And if I do can I leave from a different SZ? This might cause me some headache down the road.
That rule hasn’t been tested much.
Yeah the idea is they shouldn’t occupy/block the SZ. Then have you funny things like fighters landing on docked carrier…
And we made it so if the enemy attacks your docked naval units they are attacking the neutral. They you imply funny things like a naval unit attacking a territory.
The rule probably needs to be rewritten.
Do the Axis still get to take the money lying around like they could in OOB?
Yes when you capture a capital you capture the saved income. That remains.
@Imperious:
NO they just take the territories value. Soviets cannot build if they don’t have a controlled factory. So Germany will need to mop up the remaining territories. Any saved income is lost by soviet player. Lend lease money allocated that turn is considered also lost in transit from the debacle of defeat. Reasoning: Lend lease is allocated at the start of the turn, while the Soviets have lost latter in the turn.
No its not true.
they just take the territory value is regarding collect income. The victim collects only 50% of their income on the first turn following lost of capital but the enemy do not gain the lost income.
cannot build if they don’t have a controlled factory is not correct. The only thing you can’t build without holding your capital is a factory.
Lend lease is allocated at the start of the turn, while the Soviets have lost latter in the turn. is not true. We don’t have a money-in-transit accounting system. Lend lease is allocated and delivered in your turn. You can only lose your capital in enemy turn.
You are confusing yourself with old ideas. When in doubt refer to the rules file before answering Bierwagen’s question. He is asking for interpretation of current rules.
Wow, now I’m doubly confused. I thought “Lend-Lease” was instantaneous during the “Collect Income” phase. I’m confusing AARHE 4.0 with LITE aren’t I?
Yes Imperious Leader has confused you.
Lend-Lease is instantaneous. You get it this turn not next turn.
The sentence/wording is exactly the same in this particular aspect between full AARHE and Lite.
@Imperious:
No this is not true.
I believe “No this is not true” is referring to Jets going to ARM before hostile air units. What you wrote afterwards agreed with what Bierwagen said as well as my intepretation. You might have confused Bierwagen hehe.
@Imperious:
Yes it should say that. But it is also true that a nation is not defeated until its factories are under enemy occupation. So it should really say : western allies cannot fly over or invade original Soviet Territories until the Soviet Union has been defeated first.
We might not need this change.
I think fall of Moscow is enough to for Soviets to change their plan. Whether Stalinst is alive, dead, politically weaken or not.
Original Soviet territories include the ones that are occupied by Germany at the start of the game if using the original map.
Ah yes, once we made it to include all original Soviet territories (in game terms), plus Soivet territories (in real life terms).
Ah yes in game term “any original soviet territories” doesn’t include West Russia for example.
So we might have to explicitly include West Russia, Belorussia, and Ukraine.
