The Allied “playbook” thread is here
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/32557/we-need-an-allied-playbook?_=1624678622014

I’m sure I’ll get some negative feedback for this…but that thread rambles. It’s long and much of it is counterproductive arguments since as there are often unstated assumptions in each person’s post that cause confusion.

Bottom line: it’s hard to definitively say what is best for allies other than defend initially until you can get your forces mobilized.

Best option is just to play several games and try out some of the strategies. It is just a game…win some …lose some.

Cheers,
Yeah its Friday, I’ll have a beer.

@Franklin_Cain The problem with a 6+5 rule is that the Axis are almost always at or near 11 cities after 6 rounds. Germany with a simple crush Russia assault should have Novgorod (Leningrad), France, Germany, Poland + Italy has Rome = 5 with Volgograd as the relatively easy 6th VC. Japan has Japan, Kiangsu, Kwangtung, Philippines, and with some effort India = 5.

If the Axis don’t have to get those extra cities (8 Europe or 6 Pacific), then they don’t have to extend themselves to get the “last” VC. India is a stretch for Japan, but not terrible if that is all they need. They can afford to lose a few aircraft if they never have to go get Australia or Hawaii. Similarly, the Germans can easily take Volgograd and leave Moscow alone. The Russians don’t have the flexibility to defend both against the Germans so one of them will fall.

Bumping up the number to 7+5 is still putting a lot of pressure on the Allies. The Germans should be able to takedown Moscow by maintaining a good focus in the East. The Allies might be able to defend Egypt and have a sizeable force in the Middle East, but they may not (probably won’t) initially be in a position to takeback Volgograd immediately after the fall of Moscow. So again the Axis “win” without really having to exert themselves. The magic number of 8 was developed after lots of game testing and is a surprisingly good rule.

That all said, changing the VC count is another way (besides the bid) to level the playing field between players of dissimilar abilities. If you wanted to let the newer player take the Axis and lower the VC count, then you could have a competitive game.

Completely agree with @trulpen. Sure it’s a little complicated, but it really is an effective barrier for both sides. A great compromise = both sides lose equally, and this is in that category.

I find it funny y’all are trying to race to the bottom to con(vince) someone into giving you a game.

@Stucifer @Avner @AldoRaine @mikawagunichi @pacifiersboard
All, just FYI, I’ll be on vacation starting Tues and be back at the end of the week. I’ll gladly play up until then with whoever posts. Otherwise, I’ll talk to y’all in a few days.

So played a few games and in the middle of a few more, so my sample size for PTV is small, but I have a few observations that i’m curious what the group thinks about.

a) Adding the SZ around Malaya really does nerf the Japanese threat on India. Only a prolonged build up can win there–which I think was the idea: to make a longer game, i.e. one that isn’t really decided until T14+…but that leads to my other point
b) Italy must be defended well by the Germans. In OOB or BM4, you can solely focus on Russia as Germany and just use the Italians as can openers. If the Allies nerf Italy, eh, annoying, but not game changing since Russia will fall soon.
–That doesn’t happen in PTV. Russia may fall, but barring bad play by the Russians (or maybe I’m just terrible with the Germans), Moscow will hold for 12 turns. There’s just a lot of territory and the Russians have enough IPCs to stay in the fight for awhile. Thus, the Allies have plenty of time to control the Med and nerf the Italians. Add to the fact that Italy is an extra space away from France and W. Germany–critical to getting defensive troops into place, and Italy becomes indefensible

It seems the Axis got a triple whammy. No quick wins, and the added spaces make the defense of their areas that much harder, and yet the southern spaces are still easy to reach for the Allies. This means that it’s hard to get economic parity, and a long game that favors the Allies.

My point is that unlike OOB or BM4, it seems like there is a “formula” for the Allies to win PTV. Build up Russia, attack the Med, nerf the Italians, pick at the hard to defend Med landing zones, and wait until the money disparity allows you to just win attrition wars, which leads to overwhelming forces.

To stop this, the Germans have to spend Moscow invasion money early on bolstering Italy, which further delays Moscow falling and plays into the Allies hands.

I would say that Japan does ameliorate the above somewhat. They still cannot take India quickly, but they can grow rather large and dominant on the ocean, which could prevent an overwhelming force in the Med. But again, playing for the long game, the Allies just keep enough in the pacific to stay alive, nerf Italy and the game should go their way.

Can openers for Italy and Germany, I can speak to. The concept is as you stated: a teammate, who goes before you, clears out blockers so that the main force can rapidly advance. Italy can “can open” for Germany because (usually) there are no ANZAC or French forces in the Eastern front. Russia can’t put single inf in territories to try and stop the German mobile units from two step advances because the italian force will kill it. The Russians must either put many units as blockers, which Germany will gladly kill since fewer units now protect Moscow, or retreat and turtle, which is also good.
As you get closer to Moscow, having the Italians take a territory may not allow 2 step advance, but the Germans can now reinforce with aircraft, which often prevents a Russian counter, and so the German advance continues.

Incorporating the Italians into your Eastern front is a key enabling tactic for the Axis.

As far as a British “reverse can opener”… as i see it, you are right, this shouldn’t work for helping the Russians, since Germany moves first and would avoid any counter attack. The US can can open for Brits.

Perhaps, a reverse can opener is reblocking what the can opener forces cleared. In which case, you would need ANZAC or French forces to take out the Italians and establish control/ block. The Brits don’t move at the right time to make this happen.

@axis-dominion Agreed. I very much enjoyed my games with @trulpen. Beers tonight in memoriam.

I’m not sure what you plan to gain from the DD that helps the Russians.
Mostly, the first turn the germans attack the Russians they don’t need the fighters, so they are free to sink ships. One more DD doesn’t change that.

The germans can transport men north unimpeded until they attack, so you aren’t stopping any German reinforcements.

Maybe I’m a poor German player, but i don’t focus on the Baltic. Just go overland until Russia is destroyed.

@axis-dominion While we are at it, I think AA should also get a tweak. Either 4 shots, or reduced cost to 3 or 4, possibly both.

It appears that the cost of a AA unit was set to 5 so that after buying 2 AA, one would likely kill 1 ftr, if attacked by 6 ftrs, and the battle would be a wash TUV. But that does not account for the rapid movement of ftrs vs AA so that one almost never buy AA.
Increasing their lethality would make for more tactical unit buys on defense. Especially in the late game where everyone seems to rely on massive air fleets to dominate a region.

@pacifiersboard sorry. Yes

@pacifiersboard Target 2x BB, 3 x Cru, 1 DD

@pacifiersboard For some reason I can’t open the game, but it reads like you sent everybody and the kitchen sink against me. So Max kami.

@pacifiersboard Korea is such a headache!! I keep thinking it will go down, yet you always find a way to keep it alive.

TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 10

TripleA Turn Summary for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 10

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 6 infantry, 2 submarines and 3 tactical_bombers; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 5 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 18 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 6 Sea Zone to 18 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        2 battleships, 8 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 4 submarines and 5 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 5 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        5 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries, 21 infantry and 2 marines moved from Amur to Manchuria
        1 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R.
              Japanese take Yakut S.S.R. from Russians
        1 infantry moved from Siberia to Soviet Far East
              Japanese take Soviet Far East from Russians
        1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Burma
              Japanese take Burma from UK_Pacific

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in 6 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 8 fighters, 1 submarine and 5 tactical_bombers
            Americans defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 6 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 6 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 8 fighters, 1 submarine and 5 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
        Battle in Manchuria
            Japanese attack with 3 artilleries, 21 infantry and 2 marines
            Americans defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries, 21 infantry and 2 marines in Manchuria, round 2 : 8/26 hits, 5.33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Manchuria, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Manchuria
            Japanese win, taking Manchuria from Chinese with 3 artilleries, 21 infantry and 2 marines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry
        Battle in 18 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers
            ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 18 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                ANZAC roll dice for 1 destroyer in 18 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the ANZAC lost in 18 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
        Battle in 19 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 2 battleships, 8 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters, 6 submarines, 2 tactical_bombers and 5 transports
            ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese roll dice for 6 submarines in 19 Sea Zone, round 2 : 4/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                ANZAC roll dice for 1 destroyer in 19 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Japanese
                1 destroyer owned by the ANZAC lost in 19 Sea Zone
            Japanese win, taking 19 Sea Zone from ANZAC with 2 battleships, 8 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters, 6 submarines, 2 tactical_bombers and 5 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Changing unit bombing damage for these UK_Pacific owned units to: factory_major = 10
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        2 fighters moved from 18 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from Yunnan to 19 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to 19 Sea Zone
        3 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
        3 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
        1 armour moved from Anhwe to Manchuria
        1 mech_infantry moved from Shensi to Anhwe
        1 infantry moved from Tsinghai to Shensi
        1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kweichow
        1 artillery moved from Kweichow to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Hunan
        1 artillery moved from Hunan to Yunnan
        6 fighters moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        2 tactical_bombers moved from 18 Sea Zone to Japan
        5 tactical_bombers moved from 6 Sea Zone to Japan
        2 fighters moved from 6 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 infantry moved from Sakha to Amur

    Place Units - Japanese
        3 infantry placed in French Indo China
        1 submarine placed in 20 Sea Zone
        2 infantry placed in Kwangtung
        1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers placed in Japan
        1 submarine placed in 6 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 4
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 37 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,2
        Japanese collect 62 PUs (4 lost to blockades); end with 62 PUs
        Objective Japanese BM Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 65 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -0.33
Americans regular : -0.33
Japanese regular : 6.00
ANZAC regular : 0.33

Savegame

Ok so +2 for each so 10 IPCs

2 bomb raids on factory
[dice 2d6]

2 AA
[dice 2d6<=1]

Oops I forgot to bomb India with 2 bmbrs. Rolling here.

Added German edits. Cheers!