Posts made by Spendo02

I could be wrong, but I’d think the Japanese fleet would have a fighter in striking range at some point provided it is doing the India Crush.

@Vance:

The trouble with it though, is what happens if Japan does not go for India, but goes for Hawaii and Sydney instead?

You ever seen Japan win on the Pacific map without taking out India?

Against a competent player, do you think going after Russia on G1 will actually draw their stack of Inf forward from Leningrad??

Thats the only reason why it may be reasonable to attack so early because 11 Inf with your air force flying over the top should flatten that stack if it moved into the Baltic in a counter on R1.

There’s really a lot to consider.  Where did the US focus its US1 purchase?  What about UK-India?  Did you take the Burma Road?  Can you retake it on J2?  Sorta sucks G1 looks like the Russian direction.  I wouldn’t have purchased an AC on J1 if that was the case and would have focused on pushing into Germany instead.  Just a few of my initial reactions and thoughts.

If my memory served me correctly, with the exception of a StratB, Germany basically bought tanks for 3 rounds and relied on the starting infantry + infantry from Finland and Bulgaria to take the hits.  G2 was the initial push into Russia and never split his stack.  Took one detour into Leningrad to cover the units chasing the big stack from Germany and give them a round to “catch up”.

Moscow fell on turn 6 or 7 I think.  If you eliminate the detour into Leningrad, its turn a earlier.  That last wave of Inf catching up due to the detour made all the difference in taking Moscow.  Just note that Moscow tried to counter attack and lost.  If they retreated, it may have delayed a German attack on Moscow to turn 8 or 9.

I don’t see much value in the 70 IPC of Trn once you take London and get your offensive units back on mainland Europe.

Spending resources to address their protection seems less efficient than boots on the ground pushing back the Russian advance.

About a month ago my friend played this to great effect.  He went after Russia on G2 after dealing with the UK fleet on G1. He traded Normandy with the UK later on, but he took Moscow (due to a Russian failed counter attack in Belarus).  I was able to play Italy to good effect as the UK focused on hindering the German advance instead of the Med.  I was able to take Cairo, but holding it was questionable with UK tanks headed up from S.Africa.

The US focused on a Pacific Strategy, had lost Hawaii and reclaimed it and was chasing the Japanese across the Pacific with a large stack of Subs and an outgunned carrier fleet.  Japan was in trouble with a US fleet sitting in SZ6 doing convoy damage and her large flotilla still a turn from returning from Calcutta.

When Moscow fell, the Allies conceded (Only Stalingrad was needed for an Axis VC win).  We rolled the Japanese attack in SZ6 and the Japanese lost the fight.  In the end, we decided it was close to a draw because Japan was basically done in the Pacific and it was coming down to who could take and hold Cairo in Europe.

In terms of value, Hawaii does not do much for Japan.

Its a 12 (Correction from my earlier 7) IPC swing in the economic balance of the Pacific (-6 for US, +1 for Japan).  Taking any of the DEI or Manila accomplishes similar overall economic status with less resource investment by Japan.

Strategically, Hawaii closes the US out of the Pacific until it can reclaim it.  However, it takes considerable resources for Japan to both take AND hold it due to Hawaii’s proximity to the Major IC in W.USA.  Those resources are better spent taking the DEI, Manila and Calcutta in the early game.

My brother calls his Japan strategy the “water ballon” effect.  He basically plays Japan to great success by using Japan to “explode” like a water ballon all over the Pacific map.  I’ve seen him go round 1 and take everything he possibly can.  One time he even took the Aleutian Islands just to mess with me.

He now waits until round 2 to do it with better effect (due to the US not being able to collect its at war income until the end of US2 instead of US1).  In short order by round 3 he controls all the DEI, Manila, most of China and is settling in to crush India.  He never bothers with Hawaii and prefers to shore up his “backside” aka DEI and India before turning to deal with the emerging US fleet and the always annoying Anzac.

He’s gone so far as to allow the US fleet to stage in SZ6 for a round and take the Convoy disruption because he’d rather take out Calcutta and take up to 8 convoy damage for a round than allow the UK to start removing his gains in the South Pacific by turning around to protect Tokyo that the US can’t logistically take on J4.

@Jeff28:

Is there any way to save the french ships in sz 93?

Sort of.

NCM your ship from SZ91 to SZ93

NCM your carrier and cruiser from SZ98 and land the Ftr from Malta and your TacB from SZ98 on it.

This assumes you send your DD from SZ98 and flew all 3 of your aircraft in the Med against the DD and Trn in SZ96 as a combat move and you’d have to land your Ftr from Gib on Malta.

Its not a terrible move by any means, but you still can’t get the UK fleet from the Med home in time to deal with stopping the Sealion.  And if Italy sends the kitchen sink on I1 against your fleet, its a rough fight for you.

Basically its an amount of extra IPC one side starts with to spend however they please amongst any of that side’s nations.

I say, “I’ll play the Allies for an extra 18 IPC worth of units”.
Axis player says, “No, 5 IPC”.
I say, “I’ll play for 15”
Axis, “7”
I say, “I’ll play for 12”
Axis, “Okay, 10 IPC and we have a game”
I say, “Agreed”

Basically it is a house rule where one side says it needs more units because there are certainties such as Axis SeaLion on G3 that really cannot be stopped no matter what the opposing side does.

In my example, the Allies could then spend 10 IPC on any country (France, UK-Europe, UK-Pacific, Anzac, China, or USA) before the game starts.  If the allies get an extra 12 IPC I’d put them on 4 Inf in France to force Germany to send Aircraft after it to take it.

In order for the Axis to make it a certainty that Paris falls, it will have to dedicate aircraft to beat 10 Inf, 2  Art, 2 Tanks, 1 Ftr and 1 AA gun.  This then allows some of my UK fleet to survive with better odds or at worst take out more of the German Air Force to make SeaLion less of a certainty for the UK.

This dramatically changes the landscape of the game and is why there is discussion about adding or moving starting units to better “balance” the game to make SeaLion played by a competent German player less certain.

Hence why there is a “bid” to determine who plays the side that starts at a disadvantage (G3 SeaLion).

At least that is how I understand it working.  I have never played with a bid before

Hence I prefaced my statement with AFAIK (As Far As I Know).  There would have been no “AFAIK” if I was certain and would have stated, “You cannot build IC’s on territories you did not start with.”

Try flaming somewhere else Noll.

I have never claimed to be an authority on the rules of this game and have freely admitted throughout all my posts that I was either not certain or corrected myself when I was proven wrong.

Didn’t see much of a difference for the G3 Sealion other than possibly being short the German BB and Cru due to a UK counter on UK1

That doesn’t change much for G3 sealion as the Trn and AC are still under cover of a scramble.

Only real thing I see is a bit more potential for the combined allied strikes post Sealion to have a better chance of taking out the Trn in SZ110.

As it stands, there is no reason for G1 to use any aircraft on Paris.

The only way that changes is if Paris gets a bump in infantry/artillery/mech/tank units that tips the scales in France’s favor.  So for now, the entirety of German air power gets directed completely at the UK fleets.  I suppose its also possible to add some AA guns to Paris to be taken as hits to force German aircraft to support the Blitz.

They are toying around with how to adjust that slightly to make it a battle where Germany does lose more than an aircraft or two at worst by taking out the UK fleets.

However, for now, it looks like London falls on G3 unless something changes to make it more costly for G3 to accomplish it and as I just played it through this morning with the proposed changes, there isn’t much that changed other than G1 potentially having its BB and Cru exposed to a UK counter if UK decides to not scramble.

AFAIK the only IC the US can place is in Alaska - according to A3 ruleset anyways… so unless Japan put an IC in Korea, that move wasn’t technically legal.

I’m not sure why some of my posts get flagged as spam… anyways…

Don’t change the DD for a Cru in SZ106.  Instead move the Cru from SZ91 to SZ106.

Makes Germany decide to either cut the supply lines for the UK from Canada or take out the fleets in SZ110 and SZ111.

Oh, and if Germany goes after SZ’s 110 and 111 with the subs, it doesn’t change much as Germany can still protect its air power and take out the Allied fleets there by taking subs and the Cru/DD as casualties before losing any air power.

I think removing 1 Ftr 1 TacB from W. Germany is the fix instead of relocating the Allied fleets.

I rolled SZ110 5 times with the following:

Allies:
2 Cru
1 BB
3 Ftr Scramble

Germany:
2 Subs (SZ103 and SZ108)
1 Cru (SZ113)
1 BB (SZ113)
3 Ftr (1 Holland, 2 W.Germany)
3 TacB (3 W.Germany)

First Result:
Round 1: All Allied units destroyed, Germany lost 2 subs and had a Damaged BB

Second Result:
Round 1: Allies lost 2 Cru, 1 BB, 1 Ftr (Fr), Germany lost 2 Subs, 1 Cru, 1 BB and 1 TacB
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Third Result:
Round 1: Allies lost all 3 ships, all Ftr remaining.  Germany lost 1 Sub, had a damaged BB.
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Fourth Result:
Round 1: Allies lost all ships, 2 Ftr remaining.  Germany lost 2 Subs, 1 Cruiser, had a damaged BB
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Fifth Result:
Round 1: Allies lost all ships, all Ftr remaining.  Germany lost 1 Sub, 1 Cru and had a damaged BB.
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

So in 5 rounds it looks like Germany sinks the Allied fleet in SZ110 and only once lost any aircraft.  I would say its a safe guess that the Germans end the battle with either a Sub or Cru (your choice) and a damaged BB.

Now with those units all used up, I looked at SZ111:

Allies:
1 DD
1 Cru
1 BB
1 Ftr Scramble

Germany:
2 Subs (SZ124 and SZ118)
1 Ftr (Norway)
1 TacB (Germany - Land on AC)
2 Bomber (Germany)

First Result:
Round 1: All allied ships sunk, 1 Ftr remains.  Germany lost 2 Subs.
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Second Result:
Round 1: All allied units destroyed.  Germany lost 2 Subs, 1 TacB
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Third Result:
Round 1: All allied ships sunk, 1 Ftr remains.  Germany lost 2 Subs.
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Fourth Result:
Round 1: All allied ships sunk, 1 Ftr remains.  Germany lost 1 Sub
Round 2: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

Fifth Result:
Round 1: Allies lost 1 DD, 1 Cru.  Damaged BB, 1 Ftr remains.  Germany lost 2 Subs, 1 TacB.
Round 2: Allies lost 1 BB.  Germany lost 1 Ftr, 1 Bomber.
Round 3: Chose to withdraw w/ Germany because fleet was sunk

It looks slightly dicier for the Germans to lose an aircraft or two from this battle.  I think it looks like its possible that Germany sends the Cru to 111 instead of 110.  It basically gives each battle for Germany 3 hits to take before it starts losing any aircraft.

I didn’t roll the SZ106 change at all because its realistically not much of a change - it went from 40-40-20 odds to 50-50.  I think thats a bit of a detractor for the Allies in regards to the battle as you don’t get a retaliation strike this way.  However, its a bit of a boost to have 2 Cru moving to SZ109 to join with the DD instead of 2 DD and 1 Cru.

Now the question remains:  How important was the BB and Cru to the German Sealion? because that seems to be the only change from moving the ships around.

They have some funny acronyms here, the CV is an Aircraft Carrier.

I ran it through this morning.  Leaving the BB and Cru alive in SZ110 is a pivotal mistake for a Sealion.  It ends up leaving subs attacking over defending aircraft with no DD left to take hits.  That = sunk Trn for Germany.

I think leaving SZ110 alive is a PIVOTAL MISTAKE for Germany not to hit

I rolled through just the battle 5 times.  Someone who’s very familiar with Sealion please correct me if I’m wrong in regards to the best case scenario setup for the Germans in SZ110 post Sealion.  This is what I’ve garnered:

G1: AC + 2 Trn
G2: 10 Trn
G3: 1 AB (Holland) 1 AC, 1 DD (Thats 51 IPC and what my play through netted G2 for collect income).

Assumption: Germany never loses a Ftr through the French and SeaLion campaigns giving it 5 total Ftr to work with.

G3 Ends its turn with the following in SZ110:
2 AC each w/ 2 Ftr & TacB
2 BB
1 Cru
12 Trn
AB with 3 Ftr to scramble

Note Germany also has 5 starting TacB that I am going to assume Germany takes as losses prior to fighters, so lets say theres 1-3 left on Holland after landing 2 on the second AC

R1: 3 Subs (Leningrad), 1 Bomber (Moscow) 2 Inf (Moscow) - Save 1
R2: 3 Bombers (Leningrad) - Save 1 (2 Total)
R2 NCM: Fly Bomber to Leningrad
R2 NCM: Move 4 Subs from SZ127 to SZ125
R3: 3 Inf (Leningrad) 3 Inf (Ukraine), 7 Inf (Moscow) - None banked
R3 CM: Move 4 Subs (SZ125 - SZ110), Move 4 StratB (Leningrad to SZ110 to Eire)

UK1: 9 Inf (London)
UK1 NCM: Move SZ110 Fleet to SZ109
UK1 NCM: Move 1 Cru from SZ91 to SZ109
UK1 NCM: Fly 1 Ftr from Gibraltar to Scotland
UK2: 4 Subs (SZ109), 1-2 Inf (London)
UK2 NCM: Move 1 Inf from Scotland to Eire
UK2 NCM: Fly 1 StratB to Iceland
UK3 CM: Move 1 BB 2 Cru 4 Subs (SZ109 to SZ110), Move 2 Ftr (Scotland to SZ110), Move 1 Bomber (Iceland to SZ110)

US1: 2 AC, 1 TacB (on AC), 1 DD (all in SZ101)
US1 NCM: Fly 1 Ftr 1 TacB (SZ10 to SZ101 to AC), Fly Ftr (E.USA to SZ101 to AC)
US2: 2 Bombers, 1 Inf (E.USA), 3 Trn (SZ101 from C.USA IC) - Save 3
US2 NCM: Move 2 AC each w/ 2 Ftr/TacB, 1 Cru, 1 DD (SZ101 to SZ102)
US3: Buy 8 Subs (SZ10)
US3: Fly 2 Ftr/TacB (SZ102 to SZ110), Fly 3 StratB (E.USA to SZ110 to Eire)
US3 NCM: Move 2 AC, 1 Cru, 1 DD (SZ102 to SZ104), Move 4 Trn w/ 2 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Tank and 3 Mech (SZ101 to SZ104)

I rolled the battle through with Russia then UK and then US 5 times this morning.  At no point did Germany come close as in all 5 roll throughs.

The Germans ended up flying Aircraft over Allied subs that due to the no defensive value of the Trn lost Germany the battle each time.

What I think it comes down to is that Germany needs at least a single DD intermingled to allow its air power to keep hitting the subs.

Funny thing is that the subs can’t hit the aircraft so once you eliminate that destroyer with a hit from your subs, you’re back to where you were - subs attacking and taking out the Trn and the Aircraft unable to hit them. This basically happened every time when the UK went.

Once the Trn were dead, there was no point in the US sending its Aircraft from Eastern US to Eire and putting them at risk so its possible to bring a bigger Liberation fleet for the US for US4 with those 36 IPC.  Although due to unit placement restrictions, the most you can really add is 3 more Inf to fill out the US3 purchase of Trn or put more units in the Pacific.

I’ll get back later with results where G3 purchases 1 AB, 1 AC and 2 DD instead of 1 AB, 1 AC and 1 BB which may require the US to get involved in the battle.

@JamesG:

Interesting outline, but there may be a couple of issues with it.

@Spendo02:

Germany lands via SZ110 also because it can place 3 DD there that it purchases in G3.

If Germany lands via SZ110 they will probably put an airbase in Holland and land scramblers there on G3 to protect the fleet.  They will need to buy at least one DD due to the heavy SS buy on UK2, but they may not need 3 DDs due to the airbase.

Also, with all those subs bought on UK2 and all those planes and ground forces diverted to Iceland, Scotland, and Eire are you sure that Germany can’t afford to divert transports to take Scotland and Eire?  If London is light on defense, can Germany afford to send only 7 or 8 TRNs with the fleet to SZ110 and send the other 6 or 5 TRNs, with air cover to protect against Scotland scramblers, to SZ119 and dump in Scotland and Eire?  I have not run the numbers to see how feasible this would be, but it was my first thought when I saw how lightly defended you propose leaving London.

Of course if Germany did this any TRNs sent to SZ119 would die on the US or UK counter, but the bulk of the German navy including more than half the TRNs would still be alive in SZ110.

Never considered the AB in Holland - that is a GOOD point.  Germany did have enough units near the Russian border to not HAVE to place infantry in Germany, although it could be detrimental to allowing Russia to merge its two armies before Germany can cut one down.

I had considered splitting a German assault to all 3 locations - London, Eire and Scotland.  As it stood, the UK had the following from my 1 play-through:

UK1 moved 1 Tank, 1 Inf from Nova Scotia to Eire on UK1 - the Sub and Destroyer battle in SZ106 was mutually assured destruction.

UK1 moved the Trn and DD from SZ109 to SZ106 and picked up the Art and Inf that moved over from Quebec.  UK2 it moved from SZ106 to SZ119 and dumped them in Scotland.  I had 2 Ftr in Scotland, although I suppose I could have deterred the Germans better by:

3 Inf, 1 Ftr on Scotland
2 Inf, 1 Tank, 1 Art, 1 Ftr on Eire

Granted it isn’t a big deterrent but its enough to force multiple ground units and air cover that would be hitting London (as it stood, Germany didn’t need to send its air force to take out the 11 Inf and 3 Ftr in London although it helped minimize casulties).