Posts made by souL

I have started employing it when I see Russians stacking up against me as well… getting boots on the mainland is key.  Still, if you’re working a long-term KJF, -7 IPC to JPN and +7 to US could be a very big deal.  It’s a shame there’s no really good way for the Allies to exploit Phi being left open J1.  A lot can also go wrong with leaving Phi.

I’ve been monkeying around with ways to counter J1’s bur grab… I’ve come up with a few things that are interesting, if not implausible.  It’s based on the idea that you have to stay as aggressive as you can against them if they decide not to get their economy up to speed.

The best way, tech or no tech, is to stop them from gaining that 6-8 IPC swing in Ind/Aus/Haw for as long as you can.

I prefer to do this in such a way:
R1:
key purchases:
bmb, arm
key movements:
2 inf kaz -> per
2 inf stc, 2 inf far -> bry
2 inf nov -> chi
key mobilizations:
bmb cau, arm cau

R1:  These are mostly moves to keep Japan honest.  You’re moving units toward Asia to force Japan to take out the chinese now or never have a chance of securing it.  It usually happens anyhow, but when/if it doesn’t you’ll be ready to make them pay in a big way.

J1:at this point you’ll know whether JPN’s decided to take his sz 61 units to burma and ignore phi.  It’ll cost him cash in the long run but it can pretty effectively put a stop to this IC going up.  It’s a good way to keep 7 IPCs out of jpn’s hands for J1 along with getting 7 more for US when their turn comes.  The rest of the turn assumes Jpn wants to hit their island bonus and does not do that.

UK1:
key purchases:
IC
key movements:
any units that can make it -> ind
dd sz 41 -> sz 48
key mobilizations:
IC ind

If you’re extremely lucky, your Egy ftr makes it to ind.  I’d suggest leaving all the units you can in Aus and resisting the temptation to transport them around the map and to the atlantic.  dd blocks phi trns from getting to Aus.

US1:
key purchases:
at least 1 trn
key movements:
ftr haw, ftr sz 44 -> aus
key mobilizations:
everything purchased moves toward threatening Pacific theatres, chi inf -> sik

R2:
key purchases:
key attacks:
bmb cau -> sz 38
7 inf bry -> man if there are 3 inf or less there
key movements:
2 inf per, arm if built R1 in cau -> ind, 2 inf chi -> sik

UK2:
key purchases:
3 land/air units to place in ind.
key movements/attacks:
take bur back if you don’t have it.

At this point, you can play things by ear.  If you feel like Aus might be in danger without ftr, keep them there.  If Ind needs them, to Ind they go.  The key here is, the Soviets are forcing the Japanese hand by making them have a significant commitment in northern Asia on J2.  If UK2 opened the Burma road, R3 allows for 2 inf and an arm to take back yun.  J2 has no chance of picking up their 3rd bonus except phi -> haw and that’s death for whatever units go, since you’ve built in the pacific.  Get aggressive with that American fleet!  Just pour units into sz 51, take Car giving the Brits a bonus, and make the Japanese answer this threat too.  It’s going to be quite hard for Jpn to get above 50 on J3.

Getting UK units into China is important because any territory UK liberates in China can’t be retaken before the Chinese count territories for conscription.

Lots of things can obviously happen between R1 and R3, but the strat has been pretty effective for me against a wide range of strong players.

Fact:  you cannot blitz through a territory with any enemy units, including AA and IC.

Question:  Japan has a trn in sz 35 with 2 inf in ind.  they have an inf and 3 arm in per.  trj has an AA, egy is empty.  I transport 2 inf from ind to egy sz 35 -> sz 34.  I move an inf from per -> trj.  Can I move the 3 arm from per to egy in ncm?

I see lots of SBR because for every SBR a bmb goes on, it’s +1.5 IPC for your faction.  It’s especially effective for the allies if they’re looking for a way to slow Germany down without committing to a large atlantic navy (e.g. UK’s India factory v. AA50 and KJF).  I feel like I have a pretty good system for knowing how and where to send a bmb.  What is your punch like with or without said bmb?  Will the battle be over in less turns with a bmb in the fight?  What unit does the bmb finish?  If it’s an arm, then 50% chance of it getting a hit, for example.  Also, what’ll it kill if it hits?  Inf = +1.5 swing (50%3 IPC unit).  Arm = 2.5.  Does it kill an inf?  Will the inf hit another inf?  If so, it’s more cost effective to SBR (1/3 chance of hitting a 3 IPC unit.  1/33 = 1 IPC.  An SBR is worth 1.5 IPC).  We’re playing a math based game, use it :).

If a factory’s not being dmged because it’s not repaired, then no units are coming out of it until that faction pays the territory’s IPC value +1 to build.  More than mildly effective v. factions like Italy and Great Britain because they lack the money and a good territory to place another IPC.  Therefore, all SBR damage is likely to need to be fixed.  It works well for Germany despite the fact they have France and Poland, and can grab Karelia.  Stopping production is stopping production.

Old SBR was ineffective because 15 cost bmb shot down every 6 turns averaging 3.5 dmg was less cost effective than it is now.  As it stands, the bomber is a really strong and versatile unit.  I think it’s on par with the armor in terms of base effectiveness.  Strong attacker, long range, and even on a turn with no land or sea battles as long as it can reach an enemy factory it’s producing a positive effect for your side.  When you’re playing a tech game, the bomber rules the day.  All of the most out of control upgrades involve bombers in some way or exclusively the bomber.

@Frontovik:

okay, i agree on you, sbr can be tough. but than again, use japan to win the game :-D
i do disagree on this: i think '41 with NO’s axis have big advantage, rather than the allies
have you tried some tech perhaps against sbr?

What tech works against heavy bombers?  :(

I wouldn’t say the Axis have a HUGE advantage with NOs and with Tech, but in the hands of someone with AA50 experience the Axis should win more often than they don’t.  Japan’s got almost no resistance most of the time and they spread like a bad disease.  Even if Germany’s just doing enough to survive then Japan will eventually collapse Russia from behind and/or eat up every American IPC forcing them to defend their homeland.

common G1s don’t involve much air support on the Eastern front.  Sometimes the ftr from pol gets involved but consider that most of it.

The bmb is better served in Egy or sz 2.

Egy is effectively worth 7 IPC to UK in rd1.  sz 2 is a relatively easy chance to clear a bb off the board before it gets paired with other units.

As Germany, including the 2 units you can transport from ger -> bst via sz 5, you have SEVENTEEN land units to deal with the 7 Russian units currently on your front.

The Russians have a total of 1 artillery and 1 armor to counter attack you with.  This leaves them severely lacking in punch, and if the battles go your way a counter attack might not even be possible.

So you say a heavy bomber was needed in Russia?  I say you needed:
trn sz 13 load inf arm fra -> sz 15 unload egy
inf art arm lib, bmb ger -> egy

now the dice are:
1@1 2@2 2@3 2@4
v
3@2 1@3 1@4

6 units, 19 punch for Ger
5 units, 13 punch for Gbr

That’s going to mean close to 80% of the time that Egy is yours, and about 90% of the time it’s decimated and you’ve still got a HB.

You’re stuck inside your own gaming group.  You may think you and your friends are as good as anyone out there but the truth is you just don’t know until you’ve tried it.  Spend some time here, play some games, watch some more.

Just from your G1 discussion, and don’t take this the wrong way, but it does seem like you’ve got a lot to learn about AA50.  Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make their response immature.

It hasn’t been mentioned on here in over 2 years, and that thread had no responses.  That doesn’t auger well but here goes:

Twilight Imperium 3rd edition is a great game.  Its art and pieces are ripped off from many places (Star Wars mainly).  Its battle system mirrors A&A quite closely (d10 instead of d6) and its production is kind of similar.  It’s quite a long game as the game’s depth of strategy is, well, deep  :roll:.  It’s taken over my gaming group almost exclusively, whereas we used to play all different sorts of games.

Right outside Chicago, IL.  I have played A&A with at least 15 different people, and I can field a full game at times.

1.  DarthMaximus
2.  DutchmanD
3.  DY
4.  DesertJournalist
5.  Zygmund
6.  Telamon
7.  Bigbadgoo
8.  SgtBlitz
9.  Pin
10. Questioneer
11. TimTheEnchanter
12. Omega
13. Bardoly
14. Gargantua
15. Lynxes
16. Perrys!
17. Joe Cold (if too many, put me in as an alternate please!)
18. KGB
19. Todd7912
20. HannibalSW
21. katfishkris
22. souL

I’m on your side in LL now, I took the Axis the last 3 times and it’s been a total romp LL.  The way the game is designed, where the dice are rolled, you’re probably going to have a dual-win% in Kar/Egy around 30%, whereas in LL they’re afterthoughts, almost 100%.  I’d say these are two different games entirely.

no punch for Russia, 10 inf will bury you quickly.  I like 2 inf art 4 arm and 5 inf 3 arm but it’s all taste… just watch out for those extremes they don’t get you very far.

I still have my Chrono Trigger, instruction manual, AND original box… I hear good things about their value.

as for Koei:  Gemfire anyone?

orly?  I mean, I can see people thinking it favors the allies a bit… but I don’t think it’s so much of a rout that the axis need a 21 bid I mean… lulz.

If you want to talk about “holy crap I might die in turn 2” when the rolling goes a bit bad, let’s talk about the ever-so-nauseating R1.  Germany’s monetary and unit advantage on the Russians is markedly better.  Russia is +4 IPC from 41 to 42, and 3 of it is in the Urals.  They’ve been granted more punch but a dearth of infantry to push fronts properly.  Conversely, Ger is +68/+16.

How are you taking Man in J1 if I don’t let you?

The biggest hosing for the Axis is the lack of jpn trn.  A 21 bid should be enough to make whatever faction you please cry uncle.  I couldn’t fathom 21 point bids… could you imagine 3 subs sz 8?  That’s 2 for sz 2 (ftr/bmb), 2 for sz 10, and 2 for sz 1.  The Russians would be dead long before help arrived… also 21 point bids open up all kinds of sea lions we don’t even need to get into :)  Put the 3 trn in sz 8 to keep them from Russian aircraft.  4 arm divided up between bel and bst would be humorous… 4 inf art arm lib… IC/2inf man… 2 trn sz 62 sub sz 46… IC bul/2 inf somewhere in Asia… 7 inf euk just for lulz… matter of fact Jen this sounds fun… I got TripleA working now =D

I’d skip painting seldom used units (Russian naval vessels and Italian bmb come to mind.

@Subotai:

I strongly feel that I can improve my strats and tactics when I play allies in AA50. But my learning curve has been to acknowledge the need for bids. Allies need bid in 41 +NO and no tech. I can also improve my axis play, there’s a lot to learn in AA50 from Revised.

Yep, there’s a lot to learn.  Including the fact that a well-oiled allied machine keeps at least an even-up record against the Axis.  I’ve been taking on all comers with the allies for over 60 games now and I’ve got over 40 wins.

There are some who believes LL is part of the reason why axis have advantage in this setting, but this statement would only be true if one side gets more hits than the opponent. LL is close to average dice rolls, but luck is reduced, not removed. If it is true that axis is better of with LL than regular dice than you also assume that allies is more lucky than the axis side…   :roll: and that this is happening not only in one game, but several games, more than 50%…   :roll:

I have yet to find good allied strats if playing w/o bids, thats why I don’t  :wink:

Low Luck, no luck, it doesn’t matter.  Bringing it is bringing it.  You just need friends who are better allies players.

Imo we could start with a 6 ipc bid to allies, or bid down from whatever amount is appropriate.

The main reason why there is an axis bias in 41 +NOs is that it’s much easier for Japan and Germany to get hold of 10-15 each of their NOs, while allies have a hard time getting the same income level as axis, because for allies it will be proportionally more difficult to get their NOs as it is easier for the axis side. You don’t have to be an expert player to know this, and quickly learn how to play axis so that you get your cash by grabbing NOs and TT’s which used to belong to allies. W/o bids you will not be able to deny Germany 15 ipc NOs from rnd 1-2 and rest of the game, if Germany wants to, and why shouldn’t the axis player try to get maximum amount of cash? Unless I make grave mistakes, you will not stop me from owning Karelia most of the game, thus I’m getting my 15 ipc for Germany, either by trading Karelia or by stacking it enough so that Russia or UK cannot take it back. This is why allies need a bid.

So can I assume with Ger you’re talking the majority of your luftwaffe at Karelia?

Firstly and most importantly, how do you deal with sz 2, sz 12, and Egy?  When so much money is poured into Karelia, it leaves the Med VERY vulnerable.  If you leave sz 12 unattended and have never lost your Italian fleet before they got a turn, your friends just aren’t creative enough.  Say you hit sz 12 and don’t hit sz 2 or 9, you leave both British trn on the board.  If sz 2 and sz 9 are both in tact, the British can do the same thing to fra you just did to kar, and the bad news is there’s no AA gun to chew up their air units, their support shot is better, you’ve likely got less units there, and it’s worth more.  If Egy is in tact and you lose fra first turn then it’s pretty likely the British are going to collect over 50.  There’s just NO way people can go at Kar first turn without feeling some sort of AWFUL wrath from Britain because the Germans aren’t doing their part to neutralize them.

Same goes for Japan, although UK+US can possibly hold or trade India for some rnds, same goes for Australia. If allies makes it their goal they can stack Australia, but none of this helps allies win w/o a bid. I only need one landing in Bury J2, then the rest goes south to Frindo, and towards India. If India is stacked then i take Australia. I get my 15 ipc with Japan most of the game. This is why allies need a bid.

Slowing the Japanese down isn’t about stopping them from getting bonuses.  They’re so far away from anything, it’s about delaying them for enough turns to do what you want to Germany/Italy.  Before they go the Russians get to present the Japanese with too many threats to counter, and the allies react accordingly.

Seriously, I can’t see any point in discussing strats for either side in AA50 if the setup is 41 +NO, without mentioning where to place the bids, and what units should allies buy with their bid.

I can’t seriously see the point of continuing conversations with you if you’re not in the play boardgames forum putting your money where your mouth is.

Amphibious assaulters whose life expectancy isn’t long after they land, or island hoppers.  2@2 is nearly the same as 1@1 1@3 and is 1 IPC cheaper.  When I have a factory in saf and a trn in sz 23.  When I have a complex that I expect to be on the front lines by the time I take my next turn.  If I produce max units, have more than 1 inf purchased, and have only 1 IPC remaining.  Other than that, no.  Least popular land unit (other than AA gun)?  Yes.  Useless or rarely purchased?  Not by a long shot.

@Lynxes:

Of course you should use your at-start subs aggressively like you describe. The problem is any sub you build will either be blocked in North Sea (sz6) or if you get it out to English Channel or Norwegian Sea (sz7 or sz3) it’s very easy for the UK player to send either one DD forward or move his entire fleet forward and destroy your sub while defending with their measly ‘1’ in defence. If you have enough air power you might force the UK player to send in only their DD with the RAF so as to not expose their fleet, but if I was UK I’ll trade one DD for one sub anyday since it comes out of Germany’s hard-pressed IPC pocket!

The only way for BUILT subs to be effective for Germany is to get them to attack the main UK/US fleet in sz3 or sz7 in conjunction with air units and the mistaken DD block rule negates that possibility.

Again I’ll say, if you build subs you’re telling your opponent “I will not let you go into sz 7 or sz 3.”  If you plan to be effective with them.  A sub on G1 will not be blocked into sz 5 unless the GB1 build is directly into sz 6.  Your goals are:  clear sz 2, clear sz 6.  You want ss sz 6 and, pie in the sky all 4 of your ftr survive, they’re in nwy x2, fra, and alg.  This will nearly force the GB player to spend either nothing on a navy or all 43.

My general objective is to get a few subs on the board, spread them out, and use them as the infantry of the sea as Germany.  This strategy generally involves the aggressive pursuit of Kar, as an air-base established their allows ftrs to defend sz 3.

If 2 subs then sz 5 sz 6
“” 3 “” sz 3
“” 4 “” sz 4

As you space your subs, you need to be able to think “well if a dd sinks this sub it’s not a big deal because I will sink a dd and I will net 2 IPC, BUT if he goes full force at one of my subs I should be able to destroy whatever’s in that sea zone, or at least come out +IPCs”  If you’re spending money on this and you can’t tell yourself that, you’re just wasting the cash.

Why does everyone think it impossible to keep a sub presence in the atlantic?  Of course, it takes a bit of work but it’s doable.  Firstly, build at least a bmb on G1, if not a sub/bmb, sub/ftr or 2 sub.  Secondly, make sure you clear the Atlantic as much as you can.  Can’t leave the bb sz 2, dd sz 6 or the ca/dd sz 12.  Those are all targets that are nice to destroy anyhow.  ftr nwe, ftr ger, sub sz 7 -> sz 12.  bmb ger, ftr nwy, sub sz 7 -> sz 2.  ss/ca sz 5 -> sz 6.  If you’ve done well, you have a ftr alg (reinforced by trn or by lib if desired), ftr fra, ftr bmb nwy, the ftr pol can go to nwy or fra after fighting in most any battle, and sub sz 6.  Now, if you built bmb on G1… you’ve got great coverage all the way to sz 2 and sz 8.

The key here is, make sure you don’t get your subs trapped in sz 5.  Your target SZ should be sz 8.  From there you control every allied sz in the atl.  Since that’s as unrealistic as just about anything in A&A, your next two “control” zones should be sz 3 and sz 6… they can reach every GBR sz.  bmb operate ideally out of fra, their coverage there is nearly everything, they can even cover northern russian territories from there.  And just remember to keep building subs, they’re the infantry of naval combat.  You’re sending subs in to take hits, and ftr and bmb to kill.  Keep control of your vital SZ!  Anything that enters sz 3 or 7 SHOULD be killed if you’re building submarines, that’s the point.

Do anti-aircraft guns count as a unit in terms of maximum production in a territory?  For example:  can I produce 2 inf and an aa gun in Karelia?  Thanks.

Wanna grab AAbattlemap, you take the axis, and we run it 3 times?