Basically every game report I have read shows UK Pac turtling at some point where I believe it to be ill advised.
It’s this inappropriate turtling that appears to make them weak. Alternatively in games I play weak play by the allies sees them die elsewhere before Japan can finish off UK Pac.
The obvious alternative being that the China/UK play is strong.
@Private:
J1 simply because it accelerates the production of ground units on the mainland.
For that reason I J1 on France and take FIC, allowing a factory build there, but delay until J2 for UK & US.
Is it really worth the 8IPC swing to get the factory on FIC one turn earlier? Would be if you can take Malaya or control Yunnan earlier I guess.
I’ve been seeing more and more the UK selling out their European game in order to save India.
I don’t see this as necessary. India with China can look after themselves. Or perhaps in my games Japan isn’t being played properly?
I suppose with the IC on FIC J2, mobile units can be getting into Malaya J4. But by then you should really have all the money islands and be able to do an amphibious assault with multiple transports anyway. At least in theory.
J1 - Build Minor and place in Kiangsu
J2 - Build 2 Minors, place in FIC and Kwangtung. Build/Place 3 MEC in Kiangsu.
For that to work you need to have 36IPC at the end of J1 and forgo production on Tokyo J2. I suppose FIC+Kwangtung+Borneo+Philippines = 11IPC + 26 standard.
J3 - Build/Place 9 MEC in Kiangsu, FIC and Kwangtung.
That needs 36IPC also.
I see you having 3MEC at Kweichow/Hunnan plus perhaps a few survivors of J1 and the 6 at FIC/Kwangtung. Are you getting through Yunnan with this force?
BTW, why MEC at FIC? Surely that’s a waste when you could be buying art.
Germany not looking so good. Thanks to Japan and Italy the game is still not won.
I voted J2 but there is always the option of allowing the UK to DOW on UK2.
Of course, if the US is going full Atlantic holding off until turn 4 can make sense to help Germany.
Also to add to the conversation if your going to do a J1 I would risk the Caroline DD to take out the ANZAC TT + DD. Its a risk I think worth taking. If ANZAC loses that TT they lose 4-5 PU the next round of production and one of their blockers.
Good point. And if you aren’t attacking Hawaii you could throw in the planes, although that does expose the CV/planes to counter attack.
I’m reconsidering the need for the naval base on Hainan J1. If you’re going straight to the money islands it isn’t needed and costs the ability to place the IC on Shantung. Next game I’m going to try these moves but I think I’ll throw the tank at Kwangsi J1. I’ll also empty the CV at the Carolines and move loaded CVs to Wake Is and SZ36. SZ19 fleet + SZ20 Cruiser + CV can move to SZ36 to protect the TTs.
J2 the forces from Shantung + extras will reach Kweichow. Even if China can reclaim Yunnan China2 (likely), they’ll struggle to hold both it and Szechwan. J3 you would want to move in enough forces to hold it against China if you moved in there, although not necessarily UK.
You can also attack the Philippines J2 in part with forces starting in Kiangsu, and the obvious targets in the money islands. Probably too early to hit Malaya though. If Hawaii is not well defended you can hit that if you think its worth it. Otherwise the 2TTs which would be in SZ6 would be attacking Philippines or Kwangtung or ferrying troops to FIC/Kwangsi.
2nd inf in Egypt isn’t removed for 2 ANZAC inf either.
Not sure I can make out which ANZAC units are there but the Cruiser is missing.
I hope we can get this with those corrections.
In my game there are two calculations for Japan that are vital: the result of a US attack on SZ6; and the result of a Japanese attack on a combined allied stack in Yunnan. Everything else is gravy. If a plane in Carolines means allies can hold the position, you don’t have the luxury of putting the plane in the Carolines.
By that logic, the best J1 moves would be:
By J2, you will be able to attack Yunnan (up to 13inf including 1 Soviet Mec) with up to 8inf+3art+planes
Indeed, it seems unnecessary to lose the NO. To prevent being excessively out of position for J2, you would put a naval base on Hainan.
Are you advocating unloading all CV and attacking Yunnan with everything? Hmm.
Japan can get in 11ftr 8tb 2sb and maybe 2inf vs 14inf (including 2UK units) and 1tb. On average, Japan loses 2inf 3ftr in the first round for killing 13inf. It needs to trade planes to take the territory.
Good point! But if the IJN is strong in the Carolines, that does make that move suicidal.
They could also get to Wake and utilise the airbase there to defend the fleet. I guess the merit of that varies with how many extra ships/planes the IJN can get there vs Johnston Is.
The other point is that with a J2 DOW, you don’t allow the ftr to escape. Furthest it can reach is Guam unless the US boldly moves its carrier to SZ31 (Wake Island). The DD/Sub can reach SZ54 (Qld) but could easily be destroyed there. If a sizeable portion of the IJN is in Carolines, it can reach both.
I guess if you use one carrier for Borneo and one for the Philippines, that only leaves one carrier and you have to allow for a two plane scramble.
I think I’m seeing where you are coming from here.
But then we go back to why its worthwhile to DOW J1? While you can hammer the UK’s income down from 21 to 14 assuming a UK landing on Sumatra, ANZAC’s goes up from 14 (landing on Java) to 20 (Landing on Dutch New Guinea). US’s goes from 52 to 70 also. You also get the US IC upgrade earlier.
Is it really worth it? Particularly given that you need to strip resources from attacking China.
Then where is the advantage in going to war J1?
Without SBR on Calcutta J2, which would have a negative expected value with a UK1 ftr buy, you don’t actually weaken UK Pac that much by going J1 vs J2.
Are you sure you aren’t overstating it here though:
@SubmersedElk:
With all the things Japan needs to get done in the first four turns, diverting even a single unit to Hawaii borders on insanity.
Seems to make sense to send at least a sub, a DD and some planes there.
He’s saying that the above is one of the popular misconceptions.
How do you figure that remaining navy?
The calculator shows 9 hits approximately. Losses are likely to be 1 CV, 3DD, 1Sub, 1Cruiser and 2 Fighters. Leaving 2CV, 4Ftr and 1dBB. That navy could withstand the 3Ftr + Cruiser from ANZAC, with an average of about 2 hits.
Here’s the question:
Where exactly is your navy going on the next turn to continue the momentum?
Fair question. Depends on US action. If the US are sensible, the IJN will need to bug out, probably to the Marshall Islands (SZ32). ANZAC would need to make sure that the IJN can’t usefully threaten them. J3 the flotilla would likely move to the Carolines to repair ships and take advantage of the naval base. But if a sizeable US force is sitting at Hawaii, I guess they can’t do so. The alternative, depending on the US1 build is to return to SZ6 via SZ23, SZ24 or SZ16.
Does this slow momentum in the money islands? Perhaps. The IJN could have 1BB off Borneo (SZ43) which would need to have a sub escort to prevent a 61% attack by the UK against an unescorted BB. Not being able to put in the sub weakens the naval force attacking the Philippines to 1DD 1Ftr. Hmm, not really enough - 25% chance the landing is blocked is too high. This leaves needing to sacrifice the transport which is attacking Borneo.
If that transport is lost, the money island NO is not gainable J2 and needs to wait until J3.
I might have to have a bit more of a think about this. It seems that not all the attacks are constructive and you need to decide on priorities.
How do you figure that remaining navy?
The calculator shows 9 hits approximately. Losses are likely to be 1 CV, 3DD, 1Sub, 1Cruiser and 2 Fighters. Leaving 2CV, 4Ftr and 1dBB. That navy could withstand the 3Ftr + Cruiser from ANZAC, with an average of about 2 hits.
You also need to refer to the China Rules:
@p10:
China and its units are controlled by one of the Allied
players, but for game purposes it is considered a separate
power and its resources cannot be mixed with those of
other Allied powers. Chinese territories on the game board
have a Nationalist Chinese emblem on them. Some of these
territories begin the game already under Japanese control.
They still are considered Chinese territories for purposes of
original ownership
Otherwise it would be a local rule.
I’ve never gotten so far as to build an IC on Brazil - just using the TT and inf in the Med is useful to a certain degree.
