Posts made by rjclayton

I’m not sold on this idea.  One of the biggest advantages that the allies have is the “potential” strikes.  Even if they never land at WEU, Germany has to prepare for that inevitability (stacking WEU to prevent it).  Same with all the other German territories accessible from the baltic.  If you buy an IC with US, you are going to be shipping fewer transports (because you won’t be able to afford to fill as many while producing at an IC in Norway).  Fewer transport loads means that Germany can afford to shorten it’s stacks on each of those territories by a few units, and those units end up knocking on Russia’s doorstep.  I just think you decrease the flexibility of the US and increase the flexibility of Germany.

For what?  Remember for the price of the IC you can get 2 trns that can land pretty much the same amount of gear (3 arm vs. 2 arm & 2 inf), but the trns give you added flexibility to go not just to Norway, but to any other German baltic territory, and also give added defense to your fleet (yes you still need a fleet even with the IC) against possible axis attacks.

Rob

Jen,

I’d agree 100% here.  If the India complex was built on UK1, my gut tells me you’re almost definitely looking at a KJF anyway.  So the US is probably planning on dropping a navy in the pacific come US1 even before they watch you suicide half your AF.

I would think that there should still plenty of time to set up properly and take down that complex on J2 much more decisively and still get back and defend Japan before the US comes to play.

Which Power would you attack the german baltic fleet with?  I can’t see you bringing 65 IPC to bear on this fleet before UK2 - at which point there is no longer a german baltic fleet, but a german consolidated fleet in sz7.

Unless you are suggesting an all-airforce purchase by USSR on R1?  Or multiple attacks on UK1, US1, and possibly R2?

More details please.

@Perry:

Basically, I do not feel that anyone of the suggestions above actually solves the G1 carrier situation. What do you think?

Perry, I’m not sure there is a UK1 solution to the G1 carrier.  But put yourself in the shoes of the German player for a moment - they are really not interested in building the biggest navy and owning all the oceans.  In fact, they probably really want to avoid spending another penny on naval units after their carrier purchase (because Russia is already starting to breathe down their neck).  The “solution” that I see is to be patient, protect against sea lion, and build your navy/air force to take out the German navy.

@88:

2 transports/ 3 inf/ arm is a nice first purchase for the UK. It allows the potential to put 8 land units on the ground on UK2. The Brit carrier can be built when you move north, or you can postpone an assault on Norway until the US carrier built on turn 1 becomes your defensive backbone, allowing the UK to make other purchases.

This is pretty standard for me personally, and it works well against the German carrier purchase, as the lack of ground forces purchased on G1 means less ability to both attack and defend on all fronts at once- 4 British transports exploits this weakness.

It also means you are immediately at full capacity for production and distribution of ground units, without having to wait for a slow buildup to 4 transports. It’s why I really don’t like the carrier/ destroyer first turn with Britain. Yes it’s nice defensively, but you have little versatility.

8mm - Yes, this is what I was getting at and wondering about.

@Jennifer:

No one said a unified German fleet was a threat. Most people that I’ve seen play move the BB/Trn to Egypt.

Jennifer - Whether or not a unified fleet is a threat is up for debate.  You can always choose to ignore it if you want to.

@Jennifer:

Nah, move the SZ 2 fleet to SZ 1, move an infantry from W. Can to E. Can, buy 3 fighters.

Sink German Navy along with German planes on UK 2
Invade Norway with 2 Inf, 2 Arm (Buying 2 Inf, 1 Arm to replace losses + whatever.)

But from your earlier post it sounded like your counter to the unified GER fleet sz7 was to take it out with your UK fleet (minus trns), RAF, + 3FIG bought in first round.  If I misunderstood you, my mistake.  If not, I think that tactic favours GER.

@Jennifer:

If you put the BB/Trn in SZ 13 I sink them with the 2 fighters, bomber on England, laugh histerically and invade Algeria early

Good point.  But I wouldn’t move my med fleet to sz13 without amphibiously taking Gibraltar.  Now the RAF doesn’t have a leg to stand on.  I’ll invite your UK1 landing in Algeria now.

@ncscswitch:

It just is NOT pretty to let the German Fleet die without at least being able to do some SERIOUS damage. And it is better to keep it alive a while…

This intuitively makes sense to me.  Even if UK doesn’t see it as a serious threat for Sea Lion, it should still slow them down a turn or 2, and if GER can take down UK fleet while preserving GER AF, then 16 IPC sounds like it’s an investment well worth it.  Otherwise you’ll have much more than 16IPC of gear landed in Europe much earlier than you want…

@Jennifer:

Sink German Navy along with German planes on UK 2.  Invade Norway with 2 Inf, 2 Arm (Buying 2 Inf, 1 Arm to replace losses + whatever.)

Jennifer,

How are you going to a) sink the consolidated sz7 GER navy and b) invade Norway, in round 2?  The sz7 battle is a close one as is, and without those transports as fodder, I think you are risking leaving the GER with a navy yet…

In two rounds of combat, UK will probably score 7 hits without transports as fodder (maybe 8), GER will score 8 hits / borderline 9 hits.  UK will be left with maybe one unit (BB or BMB), GER will be left with 4 units (BB, loaded AC), or maybe only 3.

Now the UK has wasted their entire starting navy (except 2 trns - guaranteed dead come G2) and their entire first round buy, and GER still has boats in the water and basically the entire AF still intact.

Rob

@ncscswitch:

It is a UK1 landing in Algeria with 1 ARM, 2 INF, 1 ART, the ARM from ECan.

Ahhh, UK1 landing…

So still not sure why you want to build that AC turn one with UK?  If you are planning on consolidating in SZ6 on turn 2, why not just build the AC turn 2 placing it directly in sz6?  I’d rather have 2 trn on turn one than 1 ac, and I haven’t heard a good argument yet for building the trns over the AC (in fact, I’ve already argued in earlier posts this thread that the trns are better for a number of reasons).

Rob

NCSCSwitch,

I now see where you are going with this for the algeria landing UK2.  Are you suggesting though that you could both land in algeria in UK2 and still protect against sea lion G3?

@newpaintbrush:

If the German Med fleet moved west, then UK should probably build transports and consolidate with US fleet southwest of London for threatened attack on Norway or Algeria UK2 followed by US fleet reinforcement if to Algeria.

@ncscswitch:

If they put massive force forward (in range of UK), then yes, you reduce the size of the UK naval build to JUST the AC, and do that out of range in SZ2.

@ncscswitch:

And with the UK1 build being in SZ2, no need to transfer the RAF FIGs to the AC yet.

However, since we are agreed we don’t have to land fighters on the AC until round 2, I still think a superior build would be UK1 = 2trn plus ground, and USA1 = AC (plus whatever else).  Then round 2 you can either go to algeria (with USA AC support) or consolidate in SZ 6/7 (again with USA AC support).  This way you avoid purchasing capital ships with the cash strapped UK and put that money into ground troops instead…

Thoughts?

That doesn’t seem like a serious threat to me…

UK consolidates their 2 trn and 1 BB in SZ 2.  Add 1 Russian sub and 2 more UK trn built in round 1.  If I can get GER to attack my combined 1BB 4trn 1sub with 1bmb 2fig I will probably hold with BB and 2 trn.  Now if this suicide attacke also forces GER to move at least their AC if not their entire Baltic fleet to sz3 (and thus avoid a fleet consolidation G2 in sz7), then I would gladly make that trade I think and pick off their weaker fleets at my leisure (remember they are now down 3 air).  Plus now I am seriously threatening his holdings in NOR and WEU with 4 trn for a turn 2 landing…

If he doesn’t attack sz2 and still consolidates in sz7 turn 2, I can either further build up my consolidated fleet, moving it to sz8 and dropping an AC there turn 2 (no further behind), or if I want to attack his consolidated fleet, I’d still rather have 2 trn on attack than 1 AC.

Of course, this comes from a pure classic player (haven’t yet played revised).  What have I missed?

If you are building your UK AC out of range of GER air, why not build UK trns instead, and save your AC build for round 2 when you can plop it down wherever you want to consolidate your allied fleet?

I’ve re-read the rules on violating neutrality…now this discussion makes sense!  Thanks.

1. correct
2. correct
3. fighters have 4 total movement, meaning they can move up to 4 spaces between combat moves (CM) and non-combat moves (NCM) ie. CM=1 NCM=3 or CM=2 NCM=2 or CM=3 NCM=1.  You also don’t need to use all your movement (ie. CM=1 NCM=2 etc.)

Rob

What rule am I missing?  I thought violating neutrality with an air unit costs you 3 but doesn’t gain you control of the territory (thought you needed a land unit for that).

Even if Germany doesn’t violate neutrality, couldn’t Japan still violate and blitz through to Novo the same turn?  Or do they have to stop once they violate?

In my play group we haven’t really tried this tactic, so I’m a little shaky on these rules.  If someone could enlighten me I’d appreciate it.

Rob

2nd Edition Rules (classic A&A)

1. Yes, an attacker must occupy the territory or sea zone with all surviving units if no defending units remain.  Air units then use their remaining movement to land somewhere.

2. Yes, you can land aircraft in any friendly territory or sea zone, even if the territory is unoccupied.

3. We always rolled the dice separately, but I believe the rules have been clarified to say that the attacker chooses which planes are casualties.  Can someone else confirm this?

4. Air units cannot capture territories.  The territory would remain in your opponents possession until one of your land units captures it during combat movement/combat.

5. Bombers can never land on carriers.  Only fighters can land on carriers.  Fighters can land on friendly carriers, but the carrier must be in range, or if the carrier was a UK carrier, must move in range during movement that turn.  So no, the US cannot “agree” to move a carrier during their turn.  Otherwise you would have a fighter floating in the middle of the atlantic all by itself!

6. Rockets can be used every turn, against the same IC if you wish (no restrictions).  That is what makes them useful.  If you think they are too powerful, try getting heavy bombers and have 6 or more bombers working for you each turn.  You’ll soon realize rockets are not as powerful as you thought.

Rob

@Adonai:

I’m from the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge area, about an hour and a half from Toronto.

If only Canada was smaller. All us wargamers are scattered across the map

I’m from Guelph, ON, just a stone’s throw from Adonai it would seem.

@MADDOGG:

Biding is what you do with your time while you wait on your opponent to make a move. And yes it is necessary.

LMFAO at MADDOG :lol: :lol: :lol: