Concerning AA fire - Once tried to bomb Germany into oblivion.
3 UK Bombers - 2 shot down - UK rolled 1 for damage
6 US bombers - 4 shot down - US rolled 3 for damage
you can say - sh it happens ;) - unfortunately (for the axis) the following German thrust to moscow saw a streak of 5+6s for germanys dice and the Allies kept rolling 1s… (habit of letting the attacker roll for AA fire ;))
HMM I read this thread now and all i see is
We land in Europe - that slows axis advance sort of Allied strategy.
IMHO that is true, but it also speeds up Japans growth.
In my games Japan did NOT NEED to reach Moscow, because all J+IT had to do was linking up in India Persis (indian IC pours out tanks to attach via Persia -> Caucasus) That cabn be done very soon. in the Meantime Germany has noting to do except harrass Russia and hold CENTRAL/WEST Europe.
Italy also can grow quite fast if left unchecked (NOs are soon achieved) - If italy buys only a medium fleet itcan easily sortie out into the ATlantic - this forces the Western allies to buy at least a token fleet to protect their southern flank (turn 2-3 Italy should have secured the Med incl. Gibraltar) then it can sortie out and probably take at least Brazil.
All this diverts so much (given Germany sinks a bit of the Allied fleet early) attention from attacking France, so that Germany should be able to HOLD/recapture France.
At turn 5 Italy usually is at 25-30 Points :-o if the first turn goes average for the axis.
BTW every time a KGF is tried Japan knocks on North americas door every turn and forces the US to rebuild an Army (Japanes cruisers make a nice costal bombardement tool. add a few carrier based fighters to the mix and Japan attacks soon with 6/8 inf per turn - even if they are lost or the territoriy is recaptured this takes an awful lot of the US production away. And god beware if the US does NOT manage to retake Alaska(West Canada) min of 7 infantry (+6 per turn) is hard to dislodge (add a few Ftrs later)
Its said before japann must NOT concentrate on Russia /asia but do a multi task job, but with NO their Income will allow this.
I admit this is the scenario if the dice are (a bit) on the Axis side, if theyfavor the allies the allies win ;) - but thts the luck of war…
My observation: If the Allies win most of the time you are either playing without NOs (blow to Japan and Italy) OR you play (as axis) AArevised. - I never did much of this, so I am (as axis) a bit more flexible to use the new invironment. I fear old AA grognards (Revised) are too much bound to their old strategies to fully use the advantages that AA50 gives to the Axis. IMHO this game is QUITE balanced…
41 by default - its the better setup…
@Cmdr:
My crazziest was when Italy had all of Africa, India, the Middle East and both German and Japanese attacks on Russia failed, but Italy attacked iwth 1 Infantry (vs 1 fighter defending) and won.
Not sure what the odds of 1 Infantry attacking 1 fighter defending are, but they cannot be good!
For first turn:
5,6% (5,5555555555) its 1/6th that the Inf hits+ 2/6 the Fighter does not hit
+1,5% (no hit turn 1 + inf wins turn 2)
+0,4% (no hit turn 1+2 + inf wins turn 3)
+0,1% (no hit turn 1+2+3 + inf wins turn 4)
total is 7,6% or roughly a 1 in 13 chance of happening…
I found that a fighter is NOT necessary for Russia (at least the first turns)
A tank and an artillery to have a threat value for a counterattack and 7 inf for defence is the easiest way to go. Its conservative, but if playing russia patience is your best strategy.
BTW an arty + tank are bought every turn - all infantry is reserved for desperate times…
Played this out this weekend
Result: Turn 7 ended the game as Axis had more production +50% and more units on board…
Allied Strategy was a KGF + a token resistance in the Pacific…
What shall I say - Italy Killed a S and UK fleet twice in the Atlantic (turn 3+4 after securing the Med including Gebel al Tarik…
Germany was constantly harrassed by the Soviet and lost Scandinavia early to the Brits…
(Turn 7 all western russian territories were in Russian hands, (Stalingrad was held by
Germany)
Territories east of Moscow were almost all in Japanese hands.
japan ignored SU and China for 3 turns (mostly only put enough Inf to discourage an attack)
Japan spread into the Pacific (I must admit a little gamble- it put 9 ships 3CVs+5ftrs vs 7 ships 2Cvs+4Ftrs and won because of some real great rolls (IIRC it lost the fighters, but nothing else - maybe a DD).
BTW crusiers seem to be better than we first thought - if DDs absorb damage they are excellent units)
Italy once captured Canada! (shortly after thrown out by the US, but this and constant invasions to Alska prevented the US to build up a naval fore after the Pac and AT fleets were sunk)
Uk quickly lost all Pac+Asian posessions and Africa was slowly eaten by Italy (which really shone this game - a few early fleet builds (CA+Tr + a few dds) while ignoring the SU.
Both sides made some serious blunders (Japan only seized an empty borneo at turn 5, Russia maybe waited to long to attack German tank forces - maybe an attack a turn earlier and hoping for a few 1s would have turned the tide)
US should have built up MORE pacificx sea units and waited a few turns (1-2) before it attacked IT/GE…
UK - NO more ICs in the Pacific/India - Japan can muster enough force to capture them even if it holds it with ONLY 1 unit - UK can’t get it back…
UK did bomb GE, but repairs were quick to follow…
In the End JP had 3 Fleets - a large off Alaska
A small DD fleet in JP proper to defend against possible bomber threats. and a medium south pacific fleet (AU was conquered on turn 6 - with an IC UK could hold it and even pose an potential threat with a small DD+TRP fleet)
Germany focused on Stalingrand and never came to attack to Leningrad as UK went to Scandinavia (I will do it again) and so Russia could build up before Germany could strike - UK even amph landed at the baltic states…
An observation - If any nation went after lone Transports (it sunk them) - the Ftrs would have probably decided another battle in this nations favor - so my advice - use a few subs for thios duty…
So my solution - KGF is dead - Japan grows too fast - Japan soon had no markers left for occupied territories…
NO favor the winning side ;)
Never divorce from a wife that accepts yor gaming habits….
The Italian markers (I assume they should represent Italy) use the IRANIAN Air Force Roundel.
the Italian used a triple fasces - symbol and the Italian (true) roundel has the red outside and green innermost, not as depicted in this game ;)
To be honest - every game about WWII IS won in Russia - even the real one ;)
Why do KGF work? - Could it be because the crowd (us) is used to that strategy and knows exactly what to do, so you don’t even try another approach? - Could it be?
The pacific is a wide space and there are a multitude of things one can try.
US buys BmBs sends them to Russia to bomb Japan into submission (IC, fleet, army) and let Russia/UK conquer the mainland Posessions of Japan - UK could also use Australia as staging area to Island hop from the soth while the us comes from the East.
Or do an US fleet build to attack in the conventional manner.
To help the Russians vs. Germany UK and US must only invest a few fighters for defence.
KGF or KJF ? - I for my part would certainly do KGF even if the odds were more for Germany,
The problem here is: You can do a KGF and ignore Japan for a lengthy time, but if you do a KJF you can’t IGNORE Germany - Most IPC are gathered in Europe and surroundings, so leaving Germany alone quickly makes it to an industrial giant - probably taking out Russia in the process. So if you kill Japan first, you MUST invest into Europe/Russia.
(italy neither adds nor subtracts from this equation)
So KGF is IMHO not done because its the “best” strategy, but its the easiest.
I managed to set up the game yesterday (Fortumately I have gaming space in the cellar, so I don’t have to clean up)
Before the 1st turn was done I noticed a few things - I might do or face , depending whom I get to play…
Germany/Italy NA Strategy
First thing to do will be an German attack on Egypt. uusing the transport to bring in another tank.
If that suceeds I might follow up with an Italian Blitz into Syria combined with a naval assault (2 shore bombardment should do the job ;) - if the dice are at least average - I assume this will enable a quick linking up with teh Japanese forces (if Japan goes not after Russia) - China also should fall quickly with not much resistance
The rest of africa should fall slowly to the axis then.
Germa attack on Russia - I think Germany best move would be to go after Stalingrad and neglect the north for the time being - russian northern armies are quite big, but the south should be open.
Atlantic - Germany should go after the transports - delay a D-Day as long as possible.
China - I assume the Russians should build up a defence in the western most Chinese Province and I ask myself - shoudl Russia fortify the Far east or attack Manchuria.
Japan - so much to do - Buy DDs and Transports + Inf to Island capture - Would it be wise to go after NZ in the first turn?
Should japan ignore Russia and go for India first (hooking up With Italy/Germany)
I assume the US will have a hard time building up a substantional attack force if it splits its attention.
UK will surely soon loose its chip-leader position with this Set-UP
Wow - again much input.
We did not play yet - no time :(
@frimmel - yes he likes doing games with dad (and mommy) - weekends we tend to play a few games of Ticket to Tide (Europe). We try to turn our little ones into gamer - had quite a sucess so far.
:D
Opened the box yesterday - my pieces are generally OK, but a few had pent parts.
I think the problem is the relative hard plastic used for the pieces - a bit too brittle…
I also fear the “chinese workers” that cut the pieces hastened the job … should have been a better quality control…
(Guadalcanal seems to have better pieces - I also have RED Japanese Pieces from AAP - could use them fro my Italians ;))
I must admit I am not overly concerned - though a little more care should have been applied for an ANNIVERSARY edition.
I am still thinking I will simply use some AAM pieces with this game ;) (at least for the Italians - doubt I will need the Aquila)
Its hard to believe that the Russians (or Germans BTW) get a larger fleet than the Italians (5th largest fleet after US/UK/JP/FRANCE at the start of WWII)
I AM a bit disappointed, but overall the game looks like worth the pricetag.
:) Thanks for all the input - though I first have to sort it out - many ideas - none should be dismissed without thinking.
As for Risk - that one will be under the chrismas tree :)
You gave me something to think…
MY approach was: give him Russia - Russia is easy to play and gets action - the downside - Russia will face some deefeats - he might hate this…
Italy - an idea - If I am Germany I could lend him a helping hand if he gets mauled by the allies…
I don’t think UK, Germany and Japan are suited for beginners - mistakes are easily made and hardly - if ever correctable.
US - Might be an option - but I think Someone should guide him by telling him things like : He I need help here in Africa, could you please take Morocco from the Germans ;)
SO I think Italy or US it will be…
My son (8) just discovered my AA-games (seeing me carrying the big AA50 box ;)) and wants to play a game with me.
So my question: Which nation could be the most easy to play for him?
He is quite clever and we play games like Ticket to ride with him and he wins his fair share of games without us adults helping him. HE also is resistant against helpful hints sometimes ;)
my first thought was Russia?
Thanks for your input
DDs are a must cheap/defending against subs
BBs because the free hit
Cruisers would be an option if you don’t have enough money to buy a BB, but are to fragile
CVs seem a powerful choice if you stack the with fighters, but once the fighters are gone…
Subs - they don’t seem to influence my games - ever…
WAHHHHHH!
this game is favoring the Allllllieeeeeess! :evil:
The solution for helping the Brits is the Med theater would be a starting IC in Egypt (limited Production - Inf, Art, Trp, DD)
Troops from india can be moved in through Iran
I think the idea of free units (if conditions are met is nice - though 1-3 inf for UK is worth more strategically than another Sub for Germany - IMHO)
I only occasional play AA (in any incarnation), but what I know of the Wargame is making me happy by sticking to AA (come on UK panthers - or I am wrong here ;))
Never got into the AA campaign games (DD Bulge,…) and played only a bit revised…
I actually liked Europe and Pacific, but the original game was best so far :D
Looking forward to AA50 - it seems to be th game it should have been from the start…
Where did you get this in Vienna (I am from Vienna too)?
Damage or Spielerei ?
My retailer (Harry) charges 84 € - but his have not arrived -yet :( ;)
