Posts made by reloader-1

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

Regarding my “value per dollar” comment, I still stand by it. Instead of looking at it on a piece cost basis (notice I did not say “pieces per dollar” - if you want cheap pieces just order 150 of these, it will cost you $7.50… http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Gato-Class-Submarine–United-States-Europe-1940_p_91.html), look at it on a value per piece basis.

For a $40 Italian set, do I really need 6 carriers or battleships, or 12 subs, transports, and destroyers? Also, perhaps I will need more than 6 tanks or tank destroyers…

In most A&A games, I very rarely see a fleet larger than 3 or 4 of any type of ship, other than the US or Japan. It is, however, very common to have stacks of units in different territories. It is not very hard to see that 6 Italian tanks in different territories is not very much, and I have exceeded it in a good portion of my games.

All I am saying, is for $40 do I get the units that I need, and can use, or do I get units that may not be usable for A&A? For example, I am not going to use the FMG truck unit, or armored car. Rather, I will use the OOB Italian mech, and wait for HBG to make their Axis Minor set in Italian brown to replace the truck.

By my count, there were 3 bad molds (Truck, Armored car, one of the two inf as they are identical) and roughly 26 other unnecessary duplicates of pieces (6 transports, 6 subs, 6 destroyers, 2 carriers, 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 2 cargo planes). Counting the Truck, AC, and one of the inf sculpts that is 56 units that are not “adding value”, for an adjusted cost per piece of $0.43.

I understand the difficulties of molding, the fact that each run had to be done 6x, etc. I am just going on a value basis.

HBG suffers from a poor inf mold, a so-so fighter mold, and a fragile arty mold. Taking those out completely results in a value adjusted cost per piece of $0.40 -BUT  you don’t have to spend $40 to realize that value, just $8 (20%).

I’ve put my money where my mouth is, I bought 3 sets of Italians and have already given away 2 of those sets minus the tank and anti-tank units, and I got rid of all the mechs and trucks.

Well, I received my 3 sets of Italians from FMG and my 10 sets of Axis Minors from HBG, and I wanted to write down a review/comparison of both, with the aim of helping both FMG and HBG tailor their product and improve any issues that are present in the first sets.

I will note that I am very picky, and most of you will observe that some of my points border on nitpicking. The idea is to point out everything, and let the reader decide what is important. I will be doing this review on a unit class by unit class basis, preceded by an overall summary and opinion.

Overall Review

FMG Italians - Good first effort out of the gate, some very good units, primarily air and sea, but some puzzling choices on land units. Low piece counts for some primary units are disappointing (6 tanks?), and sizing issues are also a low point, such as the truck and armored car units. Lack of variation between infantry pieces is also a poorly thought out choice, as it is hard to distinguish between the two. Low value per dollar is also an issue.

HBG Axis Minors - HBG may be benefiting from this set being their second to market, as there are a lot of very good units and great sizing choices. The negatives in the set are an overly large anti-tank infantry, a fragile artillery piece, and perhaps a slightly overworked fighter. For $8 a set, I feel there is good value per dollar in this set

Infantry

FMG’s Italian set includes a very well designed and sculpted leader piece, as well as a good infantry mold and a good sub-machine gun infantry mold. There are several points about the infantry pieces, however, starting with the bases. Rather than use the 1940 series standard base, FMG used a slightly lower base, which makes the infantry look smaller. Compounding the problem is that the FMG infantry are roughly 95% the scale of OOB infantry units, so they look rather small next to other OOB units. Lastly, it is nearly impossible to tell the two Italian sculpts (Inf/Sub-machine Inf) apart as they share nearly identical poses and weapon positions.

HBG’s Axis Minor infantry have the same base and size as the 1940 series, and is a very good mold. It fights right in with the OOB pieces and has good detail. The anti-tank unit, however, has the opposite problem of the FMG pieces - it is too big and slightly oafish looking, particularly the helmet. The anti-tank unit also has less detail than the infantry unit.

Armor

This is what I feel is FMG’s weak point, as the best sculpt, the Carro Armato, is only 6 pieces in a set of 150+. It has great detail and perfect sizing, fitting right in the range of medium tank sizes from the OOB pieces. The anti-tank unit also has great detail and good sizing, except for the fact that it should be the exact same size as the tank, as they shared the same chassis. If you ignore that detail, both are good sculpts. The really poor sculpts are the armored car and the truck, I’m not sure what the sizing metric was but they are laughably large. In A&A Battle of the Bulge, the US and Germans had truck units, and instead of mimicking the size, FMG chose to make the truck almost double the height of it’s tank and anti-tank units. In this game, size should mean something, i.e. a destroyer is smaller than a cruiser, which is smaller than a battleship. Size has a relationship to strength, and a support unit (transport/truck etc) should not be bigger than a front-line unit. The armored car was also disappointing, rather than make it smaller than the tank/anti-tank, FMG went with the same size. Given the height of the armored car, it is actually bigger than the tank!

HBG, conversely, has it’s armored units as the star of the show. The Panzer III is an absolutely great sculpt, as well as the Stug III. HBG uses scale in an innovative manner, using a light/medium tank size difference, as the Pz 38t is smaller than the Pz III or the Stug, and easily recognizable at board height. The armored car is also well sized, roughly the size of the OOB mech infantry pieces. The truck, unlike FMG’s, conforms to the size convention of the OOB units and fits right in, being a good size but not overpowering the armored units. The addition of a self-propelled artillery piece is also a great feature. I really can’t say enough of the armored units, they are truly a great set and range of pieces. If HBG continues with the scaling and ranges in this set, we will have some great pieces for all countries soon…

To be continued, FMG’s air pieces are great BTW.

HBG is pumping out sets at what seems like light-speed.

I can’t wait to see some of the future sets.

Honestly, I think the timing is not yet right for these. As HBG releases more and more sets, and more people become aware of them, the demand for a set like this might pick up(like next year).

Likewise… I only want the black ones.

Dude he is not asking about the delivery time. He is asking if there are other items being made besides the Germans…

Ummm…HBG’s and FMG’s ship molds are not going to be earthshattering and miles better than OOB. It’s hard to depict lots of detail on a ship, and from what I have seen of FMG’s ships they are roughly similar, maybe slightly better in detail, but inferior in mold quality to OOB ships.

Besides, how much detail can you put on a carrier? Flat top, island on one side = done. You can minor things like elevator lines, etc but it will look pretty much the same to OOB.

Let’s be happy with the expanded list of units we have available, and with the great detail we now have on land units. I wouldn’t expect too much in terms of amazing detail on ships, though.

I think it was costing coach more to send out the replacement pieces, and he started the QC process a few weeks ago, after receiving complaints of missing piece, etc. I can see how it would be an extra expense, however.

FMG - Thanks for the response. Your math is off by a little bit, however. HBG’s upcoming set of Axis Minors has 10 unique sculpts, and 28 pieces. His prices are identical to yours, for similar quanties:

FMG: 1 set, 150 pieces, $39.99
HBG: 5 sets, 140 pieces, $39.75

I would argue that it is harder for HBG to go through his sets than for a sorter to go through yours.

Hey, it is your call to determine your quality control options, but to use size as an excuse is really not a valid reason.

Just a thought - I asked HBG a while back about the Marine sets, and they pay someone here in the US to go through each bag to sort out defects and ensure accurate count. Perhaps this would be an option for FMG as well, in order to ensure a quality product?

What color should the factories and extra units be molded in?

Guys - chill. The way China works is you pay in advance, and then they produce the product. Obviously, FMG is being screwed by the factory here, they most probably are slotting larger orders in front of him.

It isn’t his fault the product hasn’t arrived… Do you really think he doesn’t want these pieces as badly as we do? For him they represent a money stream, he has a lot of funds tied up in the pieces (and pre-order funds as well) and the only way to recoup those is to get product in hand.

Patience.

cminke, try doing stuff in your spare time - see if your neighbor needs help with the lawn etc.

At your age (10-14?) I didn’t have a LOT of money, but I had enough saved up to buy an occasional want. Remember, your time = money… figure out some way of actually making it INTO money.

Answers - it doesn’t come with any units, but is designed to be used with A&A units.

Also, the game is now SOLD! I received a PM buying it last night.

Price dropped to $12 shipped. Last thing I am trying to get rid of - someone buy the dang thing.

I think it was the most popular games made by that company (hence the out of print status). I’ve seen them go for $30-40 on eBay. No counters are included (this is the 2nd printing, their logic was that if you have to use A&A pieces anyway, why not use A&A counters instead of the flimsy paper variety).

I’m clearing out my closet and trying to get rid of any extras I have accumulated. Basically, $16 shipped covers like $10 for the game and the rest for shipping.

Game is brand new, I took the shrinkwrap off of it but never played it.

Game info:

Operation Barbarossa

It is the early morning of June 22, 1941. In just a few hours Germany will launch the largest invasion in military history. Three million men along an 1,800 mile front that stretches from the Arctic to the Black Sea will attempt to conquer the largest country in the world–Russia! Germany has been preparing for this attack for more than a year, and is confident of success. Moreover, it appears this was done in secrecy, and the imminent attack will come as a complete surprise to the Russians. The strategy is simple: use the blitzkrieg technique that worked so well in Poland, Belgium, and France to overwhelm the poorly trained and poorly equipped Russian army. If this can be accomplished within the first few weeks, Russia will certainly be doomed.

The Russian army is in a state of disarray. It is still trying to recover from Stalin’s murderous purge of thousands of its best officers. The result is a great lack of leadership and experience at all command levels. Russia must absorb the initial blows and use the sheer size of the country to their advantage. This might buy enough time to bring their equipment up to date, and marshal their forces to put up a strong defense of Moscow.

You will command one of the German army groups, or the forces of Russia. The tasks of each side are daunting. Can you do better than the Germans actually did and advance your troops a mere 30 more miles to take Moscow? Can you take Leningrad, or reach the Caucasus oil fields? Germany was able to do neither. As Russia, can you overcome a serious deficit in equipment and manpower to repel the German invaders? These are just some of the questions to be answered in Operation Barbarossa!

I think the proper term is liberated by Anglo-Americans.

You were invaded by the Germans - liberated by the Allies. Little bit of a difference :-)

Paul, about buying individual units…

Economically, for coachofmany, he would probably set the price such that buying individual pieces is more expensive than the full set. Think about it - he doesn’t want to get stuck with 5,400 Colorado class battleships  :-D

Remember the mold spits out “x” number of pieces, whether it be 12 or 20.

Sold some more!