Here’s what I did. While it’s pretty much inconceivable all neutral countries would go to war if one of them was invaded, it’s NOT inconceivable some would have alliances, regional in nature and among countries with shared interests. Excluding Mongolia (whose rules I left the same), I created 4 alliances among the remaining neutrals. No, not everything in these alliances make sense (Switzerland and Afghanistan would never go to war unless they were invaded), but it adds a new dimension to the game. Also, invaded neutral countries have an impact on geopolitics, so countries need to think carefully before attacking. It is risky and costly, however, in some cases there is value in doing it - unlike in the actual game.

Here’s the way it works: each alliance has one country that is the center of it all. This is the real gem - it either has the most IPC value or strategic value. The four countries are Sweden, Turkey, Argentina, and Spain. These countries each have a minor IPC and a proper military. This was easy to pick out, as these countries all had at least 2IPCs in value and 4+ call-ups. So I took their initial call-ups, and added 40IPCs worth of soldiers/bases for Argentina (4), 50 to Sweden and Spain (6), and 60 to Turkey (8). I based the units on what such a country would reasonably have. Sweden had advanced industry and an effective navy but hardly any air force in 1940; Spain was along the lines of Italy in land power, Turkey was mostly struggling to modernize but had fortifications and a small but professional british-trained air force (insignificant navy), Argentina had a small army and navy (though far better than its neighbors) and a great port.

Here are the official rules and set up:

If you attack a single neutral country, not all of them will become hostile - only ones they have a mutual defense pact with. There are four alliances on the map; an attack against one of these members is an attack on all.

Mongolia is unaffected by these changes.

If a territory/alliance is attacked, it will immediately join a specified member of the opposite side.

Note: Each South American neutral “country” for our purposes has been combined. For example, Venezuela is now a part of Ecuador and Colombia. “Greater Venezuela” does not receive an IPC bonus for this, however it does receive an additional infantry unit per added territory. So instead of spawning +2 infantry when attacked, it will create +4. Same rules apply for Greater Argentina (Argentina/Uruguay/Paraguay) and Greater Chile (Chile, Bolivia, Peru).

Finally, note that Sierra Leone is UK territory and Liberia becomes a US territory once it enters the war. They are not neutral territories.

Starting Neutral Territory Units:

South American Alliance:
Greater Venezuela: 4 Infantry
Greater Chile: 4 Infantry
Greater Argentina: 6 Infantry + 3 Artillery +  1 AAA + Naval Base + Destroyer (Sea Zone 85) + Minor IPC

If attacked by the Allies, the South American Alliance joins Germany. If attacked by the Axis, the South American Alliance joins the US. All of the South American Alliance’s units and factories immediately become controlled by that player. An Axis attack on the South American Alliance is considered a declaration of war against the US. The US may not attack the South American Alliance until war against Axis has been declared.

Total Alliance IPC Value: 6

Iberian Alliance:
Spain: 8 Infantry + 3 Artillery + 2 Tanks + 2 AAA + 1 Fighter + Minor IPC
Portugal: 2 Infantry
Mozambique: 2 Infantry
Angola: 2 Infantry
Rio de Oro
Portuguese Guinea

If attacked by the Allies, the Iberian Alliance joins Germany or Italy. If attacked by the Axis, the Iberian Alliance joins the UK (European Economy) or France. All of its units and factories immediately become controlled by that player. An Axis attack against Spain is considered a declaration of war against the US.

Total Alliance IPC Value: 5

Swedish-Swiss Alliance:
Sweden: 6 Infantry + 4 Artillery + 2 Tanks + 1 Mech Infantry + 2 AAA + Destroyer (Sea Zone 113) + Minor IPC
Switzerland: 2 Infantry

If attacked by the Allies, Sweden joins Germany and Switzerland joins Germany or Italy. If attacked by the Axis, Sweden joins the UK (European Economy) and Switzerland joins France. All of their units and factories immediately become controlled by those players. An Axis attack against Sweden or Switzerland is considered a declaration of War against Russia and the US.

Total IPC Value: 3

Islamic Alliance:
Turkey: 9 Infantry + 4 Artillery + 1 Tank + 1 Fighter + 2 AAA + Fortification + Minor IPC
Saudi Arabia: 2 Infantry
Afghanistan: 4 Infantry

If attacked by the Allies, Turkey and Saudi Arabia join Germany or Italy, and Afghanistan joins Germany. If attacked by the Axis, Turkey and Afghanistan join Russia or UK (European Economy), and Saudi Arabia joins the UK (European Economy). All of the Islamic Alliance’s units and factories immediately become controlled by that player. An Axis attack on the Islamic Alliance is the equivalent of a declaration of war on Russia, the UK, ANZAC, and France. Russia may not attack the Islamic Alliance until war against Germany has been declared.

Additionally, the Bosporus Straight is considered a universal national objective worth an additional +1 IPC to the player controlling it.

Note: Italian and German national objectives include Saudi Arabia in their quest for Strategic Oil Reserves. If controlled, they gain an additional +2 IPCs such as in Northwest Persia, Iraq, and Persia.

Total Alliance IPC Value: 5

When I think of a Fortification, I think of structure being able to withstand a lot of punishment - far more than a base, and depending on the size comparable to an Industrial Complex. Fortifications are, after all, designed to be bombarded… and survive it, at least for a long time. Since even a superficially damaged Industrial Complex has restricted production, I figured the same rules would simply apply for a Fortification and would be easy enough to follow for a player. A single Tactical Bomber having a 50% chance of destroying a Fortification and a 1/6th chance of totally pummeling it seems too low (would make sense, however, for a bunker, so this could just be our artistic conception).

Also, for me the cost is a feature not a bug. I really do not want these all over the map since they are facilities that can be placed anywhere you control and can’t be destroyed. Their benefit is 1) above-average defense per cost and 2) that they can be built at key strategic strongholds like Novgorod and Ukraine, and even in places where there are no industrial complexes nearby (like Egypt). If an attacker doesn’t have the means to break them down, they can really stall an offense, particularly a Fortified Zone. If he does have the means, however, it’s possible - just requires a change in tactics. One strategy I can see is using bombers/battleships/cruisers (I include the latter 2 with tactical bombardment in my rules) to target a Fortified Position even a turn prior to an assault if your forces are not ready. Bleeds the opponent, he will need to spend as many as 20IPCs if he wants to bring a Fortification up to full strength. Of course, the attacker risks AAA/battery and the defender can also send in planes to intercept the bombers… but that just adds to the fun of the new dynamics. For me at least  :wink:

Overall it should be a big commitment for a player to build any Fortification - especially since if he loses it, like Air Bases, Naval Bases, and Industrial Complexes it can be used against him later. Realistically all infantry on defense are somewhat dug-in already; Fortifications are the substantial structures that would be carefully considered by enemies when they planned if and how to attack a territory. IMO they should be reflected as such.

Baron, love that you mentioned that idea. Thinking about what all of you said about the cost-value proposition this morning I thought to add something similar to my design: an “anti-ground” battery roll against attacking ground units before the first round. Fortified Positions would roll up to 3 die (hits at 1, 2 with advanced artillery) against attacking ground units. Fortified Zones would roll up to 6. I like it because bases usually have more than one ability and this makes fortifications a little more interesting.

Costs would be 12IPCs and 22IPCs respectively. Of course, to use this ability the bases would have to be operational (manned by at least 1 infantry/mech/artillery and above 50% damage-wise).

But using AAA in a more advanced capacity is a cool way to take elements of this while not adding new units/facilities.

Good thoughts Barney, thanks for sharing. Never played NWO (actually just looked it up now). I considered something similar in my initial brainstorming but I really want to involve the tactical element: thinking of Fortifications like bases for ground units, rather than ground units themselves.

Ichabod, I agree with you. In fact, prior to seeing your post I thought about the idea a bit more on a walk today and realized it either a) would never be used considering the strictness of the stipuations and b) Without the stipulations I didn’t like how it would affect gameplay. Imagine you’re trying to take out a fleet of transports or a battleship… they get away and you have to pursue them later, the latter one getting repaired? Ok, so units that can’t defend can’t escape… but now you’re getting complicated. Truth is so much of what makes an attack matter is timing, and there is an opportunity cost of an attacker not being able to utilize his units fully that turn. Next turn he may need that those fighters or those tanks for another target; not being able to resolve battles bogs down the game.

SeanCb’s idea is cleanest imo and has the potential to introduce the most fun dynamics with the least amount of complication. But still think I’m going to take this one off table (literally - ha).

Plus, as some of you have seen - I’m already overdoing it as it is. Feels good to say “no.”  8-)

Yeah, I vacillate on it. I liked the simplicity of the other concept better, but increasing 5 infantry/mech/artillery to +3 would need to price it at 4IPCs. Some may find that fine, but since you can build them anywhere you control I’d expect them all over the map at that price and I don’t want that. When I think fortification I think the Rock of Gibraltar, the Siegfried Line, the Leningrad Fortified Zone… extensive, massive projects that were as living and breathing as the USS Yorktown and the Bismark. I want these places to matter in the gameplay; I want them to be tactically bombed as part of strategy. Maybe 10IPCs and 18IPCs - 20IPCs is better, but I’ll figure out something that works. It will 100% need testing.

Alternative idea would be my original one, just take away the cap: a generic Fortification where all infantry/mech/artillery get +3. Issue is just figuring out pricing, since that gets complicated based on the situation.

Open to suggestions.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and help. My opponent is my brother-in-law who has never played this version before and is easy going enough to just play for fun. Not competitive or intense. So he’s a good person to try it all out on.

The rules are not 100% set in stone yet and I have some time to experiment on my own. Tweaking Cruiser and AAA anti-air (I like the once per turn shot at least for AAA after the initial attack Baron, makes sense, though will have to downgrade the initial volley to 2). Also content to give Strategic Bombers the ability to hit air units but only at 1 (and can only target them after all ground units are extinguished). To make sure this doesn’t get too complicated (like it isn’t already) I made it explicit how you should roll for combat:

On Land

Anti-Air (Pre-emptive first round)
Air (Fighters)
Air (Bombers)
Ground

At Sea

Submarines (Pre-emptive every round without opp Destroyer; if present move to Naval)
Anti-Air (First round only, pre-emptive)
Air (Fighters)
Air (Bombers)
Naval

Finally, changed up fortifications because the format didn’t work properly. Running the math I had to make them very cheap to make them worth purchasing, and I don’t want them to be cheap (I do NOT want fortifications all over the map). So I changed it to this:

Fortified Position

Cost: 12

Ability: A Fortified Position manned by at least one infantry, artillery, and/or mech infantry may take up to 5 hits from an attacking force before units inside begin to suffer casualties. Note: This does NOT protect tactical bombers and fighters being targeted by attacking fighters (Strategic Bombers are considered grounded and are not involved in air combat). Every hit on a Fortified Position in combat puts a hit on the facility up to 5 (see below however: tactical bombing and bombardment can reduce the facility further). A Fortified Position containing no infantry, artillery, or mech infantry units does not defend or sustain damage. Fortified Positions can be built on any territory controlled since the beginning of your turn. You may only build one Fortified Position per territory, however, it may be upgraded to a Fortified Zone for an additional 10IPCs.

Fortified Positions, like air/naval bases, can be damaged by tactical bombing and bombardment (additionally, like these units they roll for anti-air and battery in defense). Fortified Positions have 10 possible damage points; they cease to be operationally effective immediately after sustaining 5 or more damage points. Each damage point a Fortified Position sustains in bombing or bombardment removes a defensive hit the Fortified Position can absorb for units within.

For example, a Fortified Position with 0 damage points before combat will be able to sustain as many as 5 hits in combat. A Fortified Position with 3 damage points before combat will be able to sustain 2 damage points in combat. A Fortified Position with 7 damage points before combat will be able to sustain 0 damage points in combat and combat will not reduce its damage points further (only tactical bombing and bombardment may do that, up to a total of 10). If the owner of this Fortified Position wants to make his Fortified Position operational, at the minimum he must pay 3IPCs to allow it to sustain 1 damage point in combat. A Fortified Position that has been taken over by force (meaning there was at least one infantry, artillery, or mech infantry garrisoned in it) will inevitably be handed over to its new controller with at least 5 damage points on it.

Fortified Positions can be repaired during the repair-units phase of a turn. Damage on a captured Fortified Position sustained in combat must be repaired for the Fortified Position to become operational. Note: Tanks and Mech Infantry may not blitz through an unoccupied Fortified Position.

Fortified Zone

Cost: 20

Same as above except it can take 10 hits out of a total of 20.

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Know this is extreme but it’s all fun to me. If it doesn’t work out well I’ll scale back as you guys said (sound advice), but since I’m not worried about drama with my partner figure why not go all in. Won’t have the opportunity for such a laid back partner for awhile, and we’ll be able to get at least 2 games in over the holidays.

It’s an interesting and realistic idea. But I’d require 3 stipulations:

1. Retreat must be declared at the beginning of a combat round.
2. Like Caesar said, they must not be allowed to return fire.
3. All units must retreat or none must retreat (otherwise people would send things like Strategic Bombers back every time they thought they’d lose)
4. Units that moved must not be allowed to move or attack the next turn (including planes).

Certain about all of these, except maybe 3 which I could think more on. Otherwise it would not only be unrealistic, it would break the game. But under these circumstances could see it being reasonable.

Taking most of Baron’s suggestions to heart and will be trying them out. To maintain balance, I’ve counted the IPCs lost in unit value from starting countries and given them those IPCs back to redeploy more units of their choice in any of the territories whose units were affected (up to 30IPCs, to avoid excessive stacking).

Additionally, I’ve given Cruisers and Battleships Tactical Bombardment which means they may damage facilities (except industrial complexes) in bombardments. They do, however, get fired upon by the facility’s battery - sort of like anti-air. So people won’t abuse the move, especially now that naval units are appropriately the most pricey.

Finally, I’ve added Fortified Positions and Fortified Zones. Details below, but these facilities act as extra protection for defending units. This is necessary now, as planes don’t provide the defense they use to.

Strategic Bombers

Attack: 3 (Land) / 2 (Naval)
Defend: 0
Cost: 10
Ability: Strategic and Tactical Bombing, at A1. 1D6+2. Can be taken as casualties in defense. Heavy bomber tech, roll two dice in an attack, take the best result.
Notes: Cannot target air-units.

Tactical Bombers

Attack: 2, 3 with combined arms (only if ground/naval units are present)
Defend: 2
Cost: 8
Ability: Tactical Bombing, at A2. 1D6.
Notes: Must target ground/naval units first.

Fighters

Attack: 2
Defend: 2
Cost: 7
Ability: Intercept/Escort Strategic and Tactical bombing at A2/D2. Fighter Tech increases Defense in regular combat and intercepting/escorting to 3.
Notes: Must target air units first.

Cruisers

Anti-Air Ability: Cruisers have anti-air ability, functioning exactly like an AAA gun on a ship. Each Cruiser in the Sea Zone may fire up to three shots against attacking planes, but each attacking air unit may be fired upon only once. Anti-air rolls do not stop cruisers from defending that round. Cruiser anti-air fires only once, after submarine sneak-attacks and before the first round of regular combat. If a Cruiser is sunk in a submarine sneak attack, it does not roll for anti-air. If anti-air hits, the attacker chooses which unit(s) to remove before regular combat begins.

Tactical Bombardment: Cruisers may now fire on Naval and Air bases as well as Fortified Positions and Fortified Zones. If they survive the Defensive Battery, they roll 1D6 damage on the facility. A Cruiser participating in a Tactical Bombardment may not participate in any other combat that turn. If there are any ships excluding submarines and transports in any Sea Zone touching the facility, Tactical Bombardment may not occur.

Carriers

Extra Space: Carriers can now fit three fighters/tactical bombers on them; if damaged they can still carry and field one.

Battleships

Tactical Bombardment: Battleships may now fire on Naval and Air bases as well as Fortified Positions and Fortified Zones. If they survive the Defensive Battery, they roll 1D6+2 damage on the facility. A Battleship participating in a Tactical Bombardment may not participate in any other combat that turn. If there are any ships excluding submarines and transports in any Sea Zone touching the facility, Tactical Bombardment may not occur.

All Facilities

Defensive Battery: All facilities are able to defend against the tactical bombardments of their facilities by Cruisers and Battleship with their defensive battery. Before regular combat but after Bombardment has been declared, each facility under attack will have their defensive battery roll one die per ship. If it hits at 1, the bombarding ship will suffer a hit before bombardment. If sunk, it will not roll for bombardment. Advanced Artillery technology makes these Coastal Defenses defend at 2.

Fortified Position

Cost: 4

Ability: Up to five infantry, mech infantry, and/or artillery units in a territory with a Fortified Position have an increased defense +1 (defend at 3). Fortified Positions can be built on any territory controlled since the beginning of your turn. You may only build one Fortified Position per territory, however, it may be upgraded to a Fortified Zone for an additional 4IPCs. 

Fortified Positions, like air/naval bases, can be damaged by tactical bombing and bombardment (additionally, like these units they roll for anti-air and shore battery in defense). Fortified Positions have 10 possible damage points; they cease to be operationally effective immediately after sustaining 5 or more damage points. Fortified Positions can be repaired during the repair-units phase of a turn. They are not destroyed when a territory is captured. Note: Tanks and Mech Infantry may not blitz through an unoccupied Fortified Position.

Fortified Zone

Cost: 7

Ability: Up to ten infantry, mech infantry, and/or artillery units in a territory with a Fortified Zone have an increased defense +1 (defend at 3). Fortified Zones can be built on any territory controlled since the beginning of your turn. You may only build one Fortified Zone per territory.

Fortified Zones, like air/naval bases, can be damaged by tactical bombing and bombardment (additionally, like these units they roll for anti-air and battery in defense). Fortified Zones have 20 possible damage points; they cease to be operationally effective immediately after sustaining 10 or more damage points. Fortified Zones can be repaired during the repair-units phase of a turn. They are not destroyed when a territory is captured; however, they are immediately downgraded to a Fortified Position. Note: Tanks and Mech Infantry may not blitz through an unoccupied Fortified Zone.

Air Bases

Detail Change: If an airbase is damaged inoperably in a tactical bombing, planes cannot be scrambled from that airbase later that turn to defend in a neighboring sea zone. If planes were assigned to scramble and the airbase was subsequently damaged, those planes are grounded and may not participate in a scramble defense. They may still defend their own territory.

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Reflecting historical reality, I added at game start Fortified Positions to Southern France, Poland, Slovakia-Hungary, Bessarabia, Eastern Poland, Baltic States, Gibraltar, Malta, and Malaysia. I’ve also added Fortified Zones to France, Western Germany, and Northern Italy.

We shall see how all of this affects gameplay, but I’m excited! So many new tactics to take into consideration - do I use my bomber to attack his fortification, or his units? Can’t wait. :evil:

Thinking something like this:

Strategic Bombers:
Attack: 3 (Land) / 2 (Naval); Must target Ground/Naval units first.
Defend: 0
Cost: 10
Ability: Strategic and Tactical Bombing, in SBR A1. 1D6 +2. Can be taken as casualties in defense.

4 just seems too high on offense with their range. Having a hard time getting past that. That punch should be reserved for Battleships who are quite appropriately costly. A big fleet of bombers getting hit by Cruiser anti-air and then fleet fighters would be eviscerated in real life; should be reflected.

Great thoughts Baron. I like what you did there - it’s simple.

Still have an issue with the power and range of Strategic Bombers though. Have you experimented with anything on that front?