Posts made by Pervavita

maybe he is a lying idiot  :lol:

M36’s first post is set in a way to leave it open to all situations like this, these are the situations i am refering to. if he admited guilt, then so be it. he is guilty then. i am refering to the constent attacks on the millitary of guilt before trial.

suicide bombers have been in Iraq and Afganistan children and women. the children are not as common as in Vnam but they still are there. that aside, we do face suicide bombers that are men as well. it dosn’t change that if you see a man walk up and blow up that you should not be carfull of others. you see this state side as well where cops tell some one to put there hands up and when the suspect puts there hand in there pocket the cop shots them and then when they find out they were reaching for ID the cop is on trial and all over the news you hear about cops going out of control just shooting “good boys”. the media scews things all the time.

i also am not going for the “this one guy was innocent so they are all innocent” argument, i am saying that the media, a % of our population and a % of our governemnt officals seam to use the argument “this one guy is guilty so they are all guilty”. i am saying that investigations need to occure before guilt is thrown down as it is that media bius that is causing a lot of troubles.

the end dose not always justify the means.
if to get this utopia where we are all the same means generations of exsesive discrimination to weed out the trates that are not desireable then we are going down the wrong path. the change won’t happen over night and that means it will take generations at best to make the change over. so then we hyper agrovate descrimination.
as for the blue eyes and blond hair being less common, that is because they are resesive genetic traits. i remember this from biolagy class. you as a person have 2 trates for eye color. say you have blue yes so your trates read BlBl (Blue Blue). you marry a person with trates BBl (Brown Blue). now you will have children. if you have 4 (statisticly the best number for this example) you will have 2 children with BBl and 2 with BlBl; or 2 brown eyes and 2 blue eyes.
now say both parents are BBl, then with 4 children they will have 1 BB, 2 BBl, and 1 BlBl. so 3 brown eyes and 1 blue eyes.
the same holds true to hair and other traits. so the reason that blue eyes are so uncommon (even with them being primarally Europen traits) is that they are resesive traits, not that they are less desired.

oh ya, also by doing this you can posibly eradicate a gene that we don’t know that we need in our sociaty, this could caus prboblems down the road that can not be for sceen.

as i said (or entended for it to come accross as) is that it has a grey area that no one in the media or government is willing to see.
this war you don’t know who the combatants are in all casses, you can be killed by a little boy or girl who comes up to you and you think they want candy (the troops over there give it out a lot) now as your friend goes to give the candy the child blows up killing your friend and some other troops in your unit. what would you realy do when the next kid or group of kids comes up? would you step forward and offer them candy? i doupt it, so you tell the kid('s) to stop, they don’t understand you, or if you do know a few words in there language you tell them to stop. now this kid dosn’t stop as you instruct them. so you shot the kid. no one wants to go home in a pine box after all, or worse yet be the one responcable for the death of there friends. now what happens is lets say the kid had no bomb, so now the solder/Marine is tried for shooting an unarmed civilian child. he is now convicted, what message did that just send to eveary other solder on the ground?
in 2004 a friend and naighbor of mine was in Iraq, he was in a fire fight in Bagdad and one of the guys with him was covering a door way that enamy combatants were in. rounds were exchanged. out of the building ran a enamy solder firing. he made it to cover, but right behind him was a little boy who ran out. needless to say the little boy did not make it to cover. the Marine was not convicted or sent back state side, but that is the closest direct example i have (i got it secound hand as opposed to 3rd or 4th) to how the enamy in Iraq is fighting. they will use there own children to attack us or sacrafice there children to win the war. that Marine who shot the boy was removed from combat because he felt rightfully so guilty for what he did. so in this case they were able to remove 1 Marine from combat and make at the vary least a squad (13 Marines) secound guess there actions in each battle so they don’t repeat his actions.

yes some things in the millitary cansol out laws that are established. such as trial by jury or even double jeperdy (you can be tried by civilian court and then tried by the UCMJ or even in reverse and be convicted in both casses for the exact same crime).
this dose not mean that murder is ignored at all. the UCMJ holds millitary personel to a higher standard not a lower standard.
the problem as i see it is not that murder or unlawfull actions take place over seas. my problem is that the governement and media is going to far and convicting these troops before they are tried.
this is not a war like WWII in that it’s enamy solders in uniform, we are instead facing people who will strap a bomb on there own son and send them forward to detinate when the US forces (or even there allies) do what we have been raised to do, be kind to children.
if you saw your friend get blown up this way, would you wait for the next kid to walk up to you? some would, but not all and you can’t convict some one of murder if they truelly beleve there is a risk to them self. we are convicting our service men for doing there job, when they do it and it is found out that it was a cavilian i can understand the desire to make them look like a combatant. why? if you got reports that other guys are serving prison terms for doing exactly what you did, wouldn’t you want to save your skin? or would it be better to just let every one of the people walk up to you and your squad and just hope they don’t detinate? there is a fine line hear and the government has crossed over to convict those who they should be protecting and helping.

@Jermofoot:

@Pervavita:

if thats true, then Lincoln=Bin Loden; Hitler=Churchhill; Ted Bundy=Patton.
they are two diffrent situations and you can’t compair them in such a simple term.

I was responding to M36’s notion that abortion is murder.  Is war not murder then?  Just because you put on a uniform for your country doesn’t mean that people weren’t purposely killed.
don’t see how this changes what i say. if war = murder then we have a world full of murderers that in many casses murdered to deffend life. this can be a discustion all on it’s own, i am just stating that to call war murder is a vary simple statment like saying Muslams are terorist. it can be true, but it is not always true and as such makes the statment false.

@Pervavita:

Nations constatutions are ment to be directed to the nation and only the nation that it implies, other wise I as a US citizen would be subject to Russian or Chiness law.

Except that he wasn’t subject to Iraqi law, so I’d guess he got off particularly easy.  Lucky him.
hu? i know he wasn’t, he is subject to the UCMJ as he is a solder fighting in uniform.

i’m not personally justifing what this Sgt did, i don’t know the facts my self, non of us do. the media has a tendancy the scew the facts against the millitary. even if not true, i highly doupt all the facts of this trial were made public.

He confessed. 
as i said i don’t know it all, i do know though that it is unlikelly that WE know it all any way.

the problem is that we do have casses where innocount service men and women are convicted before trial even by the people and government that they are there to protect. when you have US seniters saying that men who have not been to trial yet are guilty, then you have a problem.

There are non-military citizens that suffer the same.  The only difference is that the military handles their own, so there can’t possibly be the sentence before trial that you suggest happens.
And one of the freedoms you are supposedly protecting is freedom of speech.  That Senator lives in the US, ya know. 
Furthermore, if you are speaking of Haditha, the problem was not Murtha.  It took the media to finally get the upper echelons of the military to investigate.  In this case, the media brought justice where the military denied it.
Your justifing a person that is supost to represent the people to accuse people with out trial (guarded by both constatution and UCMJ) of murder. it was not a statment by Murtha that was an “if guilty”, but it was “they are guilty”. even if this is guarded under the constatution (as it is) he made the statments as a senater (represenative of the government), so he was acting at the vary least iresponcable, but i feel he was trampeling on other peoples rights to a fair trial. he hid behind the constatution to trample on other peoples constatutional rights. his act should have been made a big deal and cost him his job through a trial of his own. even if it’s a millitary trial, you can’t say that those trieing are not perswaided by our own governemnt (you know the guys who sighn there pay cheaks).

the problem is that it promotes discrimination based on things you can now alter. would it not be the same as some one who is dark skinned to marry a light skinned person and then have the genes altered in there children to make them all light skinned?
would this also not promot in the long run exactly what Hittler was trying for with his Airian Race of all blue eyed/blond haired race of athaliets that are smart.
the problem is that this starts creating the domino or cascade effect of the alterations becomeing so main stream that diversity is lost.

i know, thats why i said it. it was in additon to what you were saying.

you allso can be tried for Adaultary  :-)

the same way you can argue that your kids will not be dwarfs, or they will not be female. if you can start changing some things, then you can start changing other more drastic things. look at China, under there law you can only have 1 kid or pay a fine. by culture they want boys, so with this technolagy and culture you now are creating a culture of where they start exterminating there female population.
this same princable can apply to a dictatership where they can force all citizens to undergo this prossess and have only females be produced in all but there chosen few who can have males making a eliet group who can have males and all the rest who have females.
this could even go so far as to have it be a chemical put in water to do this.

on the dwarfs (little people) or other genetic adnormalities you creat a tolarance problem. eventually you will have the rich being the ones that can afford this and then those who can’t are stuck with the inperfect children and sociaty will change to reflect this. watch the movie Gatica (i think thats it’s name), where they talk about this vary issue. a kid wants to be an astronaut but due to this technolagy he can’t because he was not enganiered from birth.

you don’t have to have units in teritories to claim the IPC from them.
the closest i can think of that would come to this is that if you are attacking a teritory, you need to move a ground unit there to claim it, but after that you put a marker there and you can move on.

Nations constatutions are ment to be directed to the nation and only the nation that it implies, other wise I as a US citizen would be subject to Russian or Chiness law.
i’m not personally justifing what this Sgt did, i don’t know the facts my self, non of us do. the media has a tendancy the scew the facts against the millitary. even if not true, i highly doupt all the facts of this trial were made public.
the problem is that we do have casses where innocount service men and women are convicted before trial even by the people and government that they are there to protect. when you have US seniters saying that men who have not been to trial yet are guilty, then you have a problem.

i think from my uderstanding of M36’s first post and post after words that it was not limmited to the one incident.

Furthermore, isn’t war “legalized” murder?

if thats true, then Lincoln=Bin Loden; Hitler=Churchhill; Ted Bundy=Patton.
they are two diffrent situations and you can’t compair them in such a simple term.

Obama isn’t more conservative then McCain. but McCain isn’t as conservative as he wants people to think. he is the liberal running for the coservative ticket.

never thought Blues were right for the Army. don’t know, it seams wrong, like the Navy’s Green uniform.

@Jermofoot:

@Pervavita:

we do have a tendancy to throw our own troops under the bus. guilty or innocount we are hurting our own more with accuasations then we should be. i’m not condoning murder, but our troops are in combat and against an enamy that will strap bombs on there women and children to kill us and each other. the rules of engagment are horible over there and it adds to the stress. accidents happen, but the biggest accident is letting congress and the media play commander in chief.

Well, I think one reason, probably the main one, is that this is such an aberration of many soldiers.  This is unique in that most troops have no problems at all.  So this is an exception, not a rule, which is why it is reported.

the problem is that we are throwing the accusations around before the trial. it’s not “accused of murder” it is “they are murderers”, this isn’t just the media pulling this, it’s civilians and our own elected officals. i don’t mind making an example of a guy when he did wrong, but when there is no wrong then don’t hang them out.

i will admit, they rip way to easy compaired to the old style. but over all i think they are an improvment, atleast the Marine’s version is. i know the Army and Marines don’t have the same.

i know Nimitz was over all commander, i was meaning that McAurthur was the land force over all commander.

USMC went digital back in 2001, or atleast started too. i admit they are horid to look at, but when you see a head walking up on you at about 50 yards in a mowed lawn, you learn real quick that they are the best thing we got for the job. yes that is darn near how they look too. it dosn’t hurt that they are iron free too  :wink:
as for training, i never went through Army basic, but it is 8 weeks long, in that 8 weeks they have to teach them to march, PT (to standard), drill, learn Army history, learn Rank structure, and some other stuff that i’m not sure of.
Marines spend 13 weeks. in that time they spend a week on what is called “team week” we called it “slave labor week”. big waist of time, but it gave a break from the normal run of stuff. the other 12 weeks are broken into 3 stages. stage one and 2 run together as the break down and build up. durring that time (about 7 weeks + team week) we learn Marine history, PT, drill, march, week in water, and all learn to be basic field medics. 3 stage is where we spend a little over 4 weeks going on marches (humps) and other “field work”. in that last stage they spend a week teaching us the basics of how to shoot. yes a week before we even fire our rifles. then we spend a week firing at targets between 200 and 500 yards.
after Boot camp (Basic) we get some time off, then all Marines except GRUNTS (Infantry) go to Basic Infantry School where we spend 10 days more of boot camp type treatment firing our rifles in more combat situations, also we try out other weopens such as SAWS, MK19, 50Cal, and some others (i think they cut out the MK19 and 50 cal though). we allso throw granaids and do some other training to be infantry men (thats the fun stuff we did). at the end we have a big mock war. it would be funner with chalk rounds and i hope they went to thouse, but it was just blanks when i did it. at the end of that all POGS go to there MOS school. GRUNTS don’t go there, they go straight to there School of Infantry.

we do have a tendancy to throw our own troops under the bus. guilty or innocount we are hurting our own more with accuasations then we should be. i’m not condoning murder, but our troops are in combat and against an enamy that will strap bombs on there women and children to kill us and each other. the rules of engagment are horible over there and it adds to the stress. accidents happen, but the biggest accident is letting congress and the media play commander in chief.

i didn’t say the army wasn’t in the Pacific. i know they were, but they wern’t the major assault force there. they were mainly support (although then support didn’t mean sit back and wait for it to be safe before moving in), My grandfather was in the Army Air Corp in WWII and served in the Pacific. his job was to build/repair air strips on the islands. as an enganier though he also was making the landings right with the Marines on the islands. we (as in all the US and Allies) couldn’t afford to have our enganiers and other support men stay back for it to be safe. we needed them all on the ground giving and taking rounds.
but as a standard the Army was in Europe and the Marines were in the Pacific. Navy and Air Force(Army then) were in both.
as for McAurther leading, it seams to be the standard to put the Army in charge all the time, even when the Marines are the bulk of the force in some place. i think in this case though it made scence for a few resons.
before WWII the Marines were a vary small force, no where near enough to sustain a long drawn out war like this. i can’t say for sure numbers but the Marines were no where near enough to make it through the war and resupply there numbers. this means that the Marines didn’t have full blown generals. the Marine Corps first full blown general (4 star) was Holcomb who was the Commadant durring WWII, but was awarded the rank after he retired. this means that it was better to place a 4 star general in charge of the opperation, so it fell to an Army General. the choice was an easy one as McAurther already had experiance in the Pacific with his standing in the Phillapeans. he did make the most sence for a commander in that theater of opperation.