Totally off the subject but strikes my fancy about bids.
Lets say the Allies get a bid of 21.
It seems that common belief is that 21 should go to the Euro map to slow up Germany.
So in the vein of this discussion.
Why not plop down an extra 7 INF all over China to slow down Japan.
Coupled with my belief that China is more powerful than UK Pacific.
IMO most games of Global are won by Japan and not Germany. Slow up Japan seems to be the winning plan of attack.
Supporting Yunnan is still better than going north in my opinion.
Ok, I will take a stab at the strategic plan that Yunnan is more important than the threaten northern China plan that I proposed with the Communist Chinese have arrived plan.
Lets set the board this way with a standard opening move by Japan.
They take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Charar.
Japan has a huge stack of Air power sitting in Kwangsi.
China Turn 1 Moves ALL their forces back to Shensi and forms a fortress. They have 15 INF + FTR. The Burma road is toast for now and no need to send troops into the vortex of death of Yunnan. So, next turn they will be able to build 2 INF with their 8 IPC.
Now Russian has the Chinese Communist army formed up on R2, ready to move in.
Japan on J2 decides to take Suiyuyan, Hopei, Kweichow and Szechwan. Now, Japan though has to decide on how many land units to put into these territories. Remember Japan can not reinforce with air power at this point. All 4 territories can be counter attacked by China if they desire.
At this point a little table talk from the Russian player to the Japan player might just give you an edge. You point out to him that Russia has 11 mech + 2 arm and 1 tac ready to reinforce Shensi on R3 before J3. Bringing up the defense/Attack of Shensi to 17 INF + 1 FTR from China and 11 Mech +2 arm + 1 tac from the Communist Chinese. That is a titanic stack of units sitting right in the middle of China for Japan to have to deal with. When R3 arrives you DOW on Japan and move your stack into Shensi. You retreat to the corner of the room where the keg of beer is at and pull a 32OZ mug of beer and see what Japan does on J3. Of course regardless of his moves you chuckle and talk to your ally who is playing China in the side room just to make Japan sweat it out a little. Of course do not neglect to mention that the communist also have 18 INF sitting in Amur ready to pounce.
Now what happens from this point on is pure speculation and totally dictated by the “board” so no need to continue what to do after you rally the Communist with the Nationals in Shensi.
Here though is the dilemma for Japan.
They really want to take Calcutta because of the VP city.
It will take them a lot of effort to take it though.
China though is a greater threat to Japan than UK Pacific because China not contained can earn more IPC than UK Pacific in the early to mid point of the game.
China now has enough troops that they can take out lightly defended territories and “can open” for the Communist to blitz even further towards the coast.
China can retake 2 VP cities if not stopped and thus make knocking out Calcutta a mute point.
At the end of the day China is a greater threat to Japan than UK Pacific can ever be in the early to mid point of a game.
That huge stack in Shensi has the potential to wreak a huge amount of damage on Japan if they ignore it and go all hell bent on India.
Wild Bill is correct that Germany will attempt to defend Norway/Finland by constantly shucking 2-4 units a turn up there to secure that area of the map. It is worth 10 IPC for Germany, 5 for the territory and 5 for the Iron Ore national objective. So the IPC level is high enough that Germany will attempt to defend it and counter attack with vengeance if you take one of them.
There are some crazy players out there who will build a German minor IC on Norway or Finland just so they do not have to rely on TRS to get units up there and build 3 units every turn on Norway/Finland. They build 3 INF a turn for 9 IPC but they get 10 IPC a turn in Norway/Finland, so the IPC commitment is paying for itself up there to secure/lock down that portion of the board.
If you want to build a minor IC up there I would suggest that it goes into Finland instead of Norway because the Western Allies have no access to invade Finland from the sea in less they want to go really out their way to get there and go far north that their navy is almost off the board.
Does it weaken Russia too much to justify spreading the communist love.� Â
Is it a good spot for US factories?
Is it a better idea to get it with Uk and shuttle troops into leningrad that way?
Norway and Finland are nice for Russia from an IPC stand point but Russian cannot build minor factories on them, they do not have the IPC or desire to do so.
UK is in the same boat as Russia. They cant build units on those territories and thus are pointless for them.
USA can build 2 minors up there and commit to lets say: 3 Mech in Norway and 3 INF in Finland every turn at a cost of 21 IPC. That is not a issue for the USA and not crippling their IPC bank to commit to that type of plan.
or spend 72 IPC one turn and drop 6 STRAT bombers on them and then next turn spend 36 IPC and get 3 more and totally destroy any German rear guard units as USA/UK move down out of Finland. This is the point of the game that the Axis are getting ready to concede the match.
Well the #1 ideal scenario is USA is sitting SZ91.
UK has some TRS and dudes sitting in UK ready to go.
USA can opens a undefended Denmark and then UK sails into the Baltic and lands on a undefended or lightly defended Germany. All you need to do is take Denmark to gain access with surface ships into the Baltic.
IF you plan on taking Norway you should always do it with the USA so they can build a minor factory up there and have the IPC to pump out 3 units every turn to go at Russia or annoy the living daylights out of Germany because you can now strat bomb Germany from Norway. I never take Norway with Russia or UK because that is domain of the USA because they can fully utilize that territory.
The only issue with going at Norway with the USA from SZ91 is you take your fleet so far north and that gives Italy some breathing room of not being invaded for 2-3 turns. If USA goes to Norway with lets say 5 TRS and they have not set up a shuck plan or any plan to move units forward. It will take the USA 3 turns to get those TRS back to USA and 4 turns to get back to SZ91 with new units. It is imperative for the USA to set up some kind of shuck of TRS and men from USA to SZ91. If you do not the USA becomes very disjointed and can never do follow up attacks on invasions.
I got a all day game of Global set to play on Sunday and Iam the Allies. I think I will try this and just see how my friends react to it. I will report back on Monday on the 1 game sample size of its effectiveness. Might just try Global Insanity plan just to spice things up. :-D
Well this would be a interesting dilemma for Japan if Russia did something like this.
The Communist Chinese have arrived
R1 Russia builds
They are reinforced by the 2 mech and 2 arm and 1 Tactical on the map.
So, that is the totality of the Chinese Communist force. All Russian builds from Turn 2 and onward are all for the Europe map.
The plan is not to get sucked into the vortex of death in Yunnan, that makes it to easy on Japan. Instead they stick to the north, going as fast as possible to get to Suiyuyan. The idea is that this now forces Japan to cover all of China instead of just focusing on the south. It also forces Japan to move some air power north which will help UK Pacific. The 18 INF in the Far East at first pull back off the coast and once the Communist arrive in northern China they move back to Amur.
Now china can support them with some INF and they will be able to “can open” for Russia in the north. Another issue Japan will have to contend with IF China is supporting the Russians and not just throwing every unit they have into the vortex of death in Yunnan. ** foot note **: Should China on C1 build all ART and place them in the north to support this plan?
Now I hear some dudes yelling about what about Calcutta? Well, if the theory holds and Japan does not respect the Communist Chinese threat, then, when Calcutta falls on T4 or 5. The communist have taken Manchuria, Korea and Kiangsu (Shanghai) and taken a Victory city back from Japan on R5 or R6. So in essence losing Calcutta from a VP stand point is then a wash.
So, how does Japan respond to this type of attack?
(Yeah, Germany is a issue but in the end not the subject of this discussion.)
(now there is a timing to this type of attack)
R1 you move your 2ARM and 2Mech to Novosibirsk
R2 You move your Chinese Communist into Novosibirsk also, the units you bought on R1.
Now on R1 and R2 you still have these units near Moscow and can call off the Chinese incursion and head back. In the ideal world Germany DOW on Russia in G3.
R3 Russia declares war on Japan and moves into Suiyuyan with the communist forces. It is most likely Japan will have some units in this territory and thus when you take it you will violate the Mongolian Pact because you took a Japan held territory next to Mongolia and thus Mongolia will turn true Neutral at that point.
R3 to R5 the Far East Inf move back into Amur. Depending on what the map looks like and how is Japan responding. Once Mongolia turns true neutral you need to be cautious with your Far East force to make sure they do not move back into Amur and just get blown up because now Japan no longer fears Mongolia going over to Russia and the 6 INF units.
Now for my final Global insanity plan based on this plan.
USA5 they violate the Neutrals and go Spanish Beach Head
UK5 they take down Turkey with Middle Earth plan.
R6 they take Buyant-Uhann from Chahar and the 18 inf from Amur link up.
How do you defend against this?.
Do not repeat your mistake and have CV escorted at all time by CA and DD.
CV are not powerful and need to be protected at all times. CV project power up to 3 sea zones, with their planes, but the carriers themselves are very vulnerable to counter attack. Make sure you protect your CV at all times.
1-2 FTRs back home isn’t going to make or break Japan. Â
Well, Japan starts with 2 FTRS in Japan.
So, are you saying you are fine just leaving them there on Turn 1 as home defense and not move them to China? Leave 2 Ftrs doing nothing, just in case?
of course not.
Every one moves all their air assets to south east asia for the Calcutta crush / push.
Making Japan having to move air assets back north is not what Japan wants to do.
Japan has to fly 3 ftrs home? Big deal and so what.
Well, Japan most likely does not want to do that. Japan wants those ftrs on carriers or in China to crush India. That is why it is a big deal.
The #1 asset Japan has is air power, concentrated air power. If you can force Japan to diffuse that air power to cover all over the place then Japan losses its offensive punch in China/India.
Stopping bombardments is cream on the top, not the real power of Kamikazes.
The most awesome use of Kamikazes I’m aware of is to frighten US CVs away from SZ6 after Japan building a DD there. Then you can reclaim the SZ with a weaker fleet coming back from the money islands.
Well then you have failed to realize the power of Midway Island.
USA parks 2 CV with 4 ftrs and the island has 2 Bombers and they can destroy any small fleet in SZ6 and the CV never have to move off of Midway. Kamikaze cannot stop this and the only real recourse is to divert 3 ftrs back to Japan to defend the home waters from USA air strikes into the SZ.
Midway island is a very powerful sea zone to project air power into SZ6.
Iam starting to think that you guys do not know the real power of the Kamikaze.
The real power of the Kamikaze is that it stops shore bombardment.
Lets use this as an example.
USA decided to go into SZ6 and invade Japan.
USA pushes all in and in a grand fashion pushes their units onto the shores of Japan. The USA has 3 BB and 5 CA and they are counting on those units to push the odds in their favor, DD and CV in the SZ do not matter.
Japan launches 1 Kamikaze into the SZ. It does, what ever it does on its epic 1-2 roll. It did its job though regardless of if he hit or not. Now the USA cannot shore bombard.
The role of the Kamikaze is to protect all Japan islands from assault by denying the invader from using shore bombardment. In essence Japan can protect it self from 6 invasions if you use just 1 Kamikaze per invasion.
So, the power of the Kamikaze is that it forces, lets say the USA, from having to invade islands with enough force by just using ground forces and any air assets they have in range.
The Kamikaze rules really beef up Japans defense of Japan, Phillipines and Iwo Jima IF Japan actually puts some garrison units on those key islands. Which, IMO, the vast majority of players refuse to do. The action is in China and India, no need to leave lets say, 6 INF on Iwo Jima or the Phillipines.
Lets take a look at the Japan homeland, the most common scenario. There are times during the game that the USA could jump from Hawaii to Japan with lets say 4inf and 4 art, plus 2 BB and 4 CA. Japan only has 6 IINF, 4 ART and 1 FTR. Well that is around a 50/50 battles with the shore bombardment. Now japan could scramble its FTR to SZ6 to defend the invasion and deny the shore bombardment but that really weakens the defense of Japan. That is where sending out just 1 Kamikaze comes into play.
It is a free move by Japan, they have 6 free Kamikaze strikes. So, the Kamikaze would deny the shore bombardment, the FTR stays on Japan to help in defense, the USA knows this and calculates the odds of the quick strike, caught them napping on the homeland plan and realizes it is a lost cause and does not invade.
I think the best time for the Axis to declare war is on Turn 1. Germany starts the game by declaring war on everyone, true neutrals, Mongolia, your mother and your keg of beer you have in the corner. It sets the tone for the game and gets every one very excited which is why we play games to begin with. Lets face it, the guys who are controlling Russia and USA are bored, drinking to much of that beer in the keg until T3 or T4. Lets just get it on.
Now on a more serious note.
This DOW of the Axis seems to hinge totally on Sea Lion VS J1 on the Allies. Also it goes to the very discussion the Axis players have before the game starts on how do they think they can win the war. It is so much easier for Japan to achieve a Axis Victory compared to Germany in Global. In my experience the vast majority of Axis victories are achieved on the Pacific map.
So, if you agree that Japan has a easier path to Global victory, you need to J1 every time.
** Foot note **
This is what is at the “heart” of what should the USA do at the start of the war. Go full in on KJF plan or a more balance approach early and get the units required on the Euro map to at least pester Germany/Italy in the early part and then go full blow against Japan. Once again in my experience if Japan goes j1 and the USA goes all blow against Japan that is when Germany wins on the Euro map in Global.
I have seen some guys doing all sub bids. If you can get the bid to 30 -�  5 subs with all major fleets can do alot of damage, and can really assist UK / hamper axis early; And make G1 painful to plan.
1 off canada,
2 off UK with fleets,
1 off gibraltar,
1 with med fleetSounds like a sub-standard strategy to me….�  :-P
I’ll be here all week, folks.
LOL
You are very witty good sir.
:-D
PS: is there a cover charge at your next gig?
I have a plan for the Italians that is pretty out of the box to help secure the European flank.
In every game that fleet in 111 has been irrelevant and by the time it could become relevant it’s too late because of my secret Italian strategy.
Ok man, stop teasing me……I want to see this strategy.
:-D :-o
Axis and Allies is a dice game. One of the things that screws up dice games are the dice. I play another game called Blood Bowl, a fantasy football game of Orcs/Humans and so forth. That game is a dice game also, teams can purchase rerolls to represent skill and so forth.
SO
For Axis and Allies I propose you can purchase rerolls. We will call them Offensives or some such name.
Here are the rules for Offensives/rerolls
So, this is a way using a game mechanic to influence key battles and key dice roll. It is a resource that must be used wisely which encourages smart play. Also it gives players at least one or two chances to reroll a disaster because of the dice.
What do you guys think?
Rerolls cost to much to purchase? � or need to be adjusted to, lets say, 8 IPC? Or need to go up to 15 IPC?
Do, you like this concept/idea?
As a German player, to see this London calling strategy would make me giddy,this strategy is incredibly flawed….worthless in fact…people miss the point of Sea Lion which is to secure a flank, and prevent landing spots for US Bombers
Germany and Italy must play as one with same objectives in mind
Well, I don’t think people miss the point that knocking out the UK and securing the island is key to Axis success.
I just want more insight on how the plan is flawed to the point of worthless. That is the real “meat” of your post. Back it up, lets get some insight on why it is flawed and pointless.
Well, if you put 4 subs in 106 on G1, the US can decide to move the cruiser to 102 as well, 5 subs vs 1 DD, 1 CC, 2 CV, 4 fighters may very well result in 5 subs lost against the destroyer and cruiser, leaving the carriers.
That is true.
But Germany could then go into Eastern USA SZ and blow up what ever TRS and fodder units they have on G3 instead.
Iam a big believer in making my foe have to make some hard choices on what to do. He has no clue what Iam doing and sometimes people way over think what you are doing when put under pressure. It is possible that the USA backs down from SZ102 in response.
Also leaving carriers fully loaded in SZ102 does have some risk. If the Subs get some good rolls they could damage all the CV and most likely all the subs die in the process. Â But that also means the USA loses not only their DD and CA, in the scenario laid out but also all 4 planes. I think that would be a really nice trade off for Germany.
I agree it is unlikely that the German Subs would hit 4 out of 5 shots. But will the USA risk it? That is the whole point of a passive counter. Your foe is more concerned about it going bad and losing a ton of units and set them back 2-3 turns. That is why passive counters work.
The proper response to a passive counter is to challenge it and flip the script and make the guy setting up the passive counter to actually spring the counter move and maybe losing his shirt in the process.
This plan isn’t to actively prevent Sealion, it’s to dissuade Germany from doing it.
Well, now that the video is out GHG has shown the counter for Germany to hold SZ110 after Sea Lion and blow up the entire German fleet.
My 2 Air Base plan on SZ110 was a counter to the first question of how does Germany hold SZ110 and their ill gotten gains in the UK.
So, now we enter the realm of counters of counters.
So, the USA stacks SZ102 like GHG laid out. What can Germany do besides bailing on Sea Lion which is the entire purpose of stacking SZ102.
Well, the 2 X Air Base plan most likely is a doomed counter. Mainly because it is to passive. Germany does not need passive plans that dissuade the Allies from doing something, they need to be bold and aggressive and make it abundantly clear that the Allies have no choice but to back down.
So, here is my second stab at this discussion, in classic manner, a counter to a counter.
Germany is going in on Sea Lion on G3, that is a given.
Germany plans to counter this SZ102 grand plan.
So, instead of being passive to dissuade the USA, Germany goes right at them.
Germany moves all 4 Atlantic subs into SZ106 and obliterates the Canadian navy.
Germany blows up SZ111, mainly to get rid of one of the UK DD sitting up there. Going in with the BB and air power.
Germany ignores SZ110 fleet.
Germany is only concerned in the first 2 turns about UK DD.
Germany needs to build a DD on turn 1 to take out that pesky Russian Sub on G2.
Germany in the non combat moves the lone sub in 124 to 108.
Ok, so what has Germany done.
IF all goes to plan off the coast of Canada Germany has 4 subs and one sub in the middle of the Atlantic in range of SZ102.
SO UK now has to make some choices. Do they go standard opening move and go Taranto and ignore the subs? They do have one DD left in SZ109 who go back to Canada with some air support and blow up the Subs. But how many planes do they divert? they need all of them in the Med. So, if UK goes back to Canada to destroy the sub menace Italy keeps almost all their starting navy in tact. which is always good for the Axis.
** This is very Important to the counter ** Germany is forcing the UK to make a hard choice on UK1. Depending on their choice now Germany on G2 can make any changes to Sea Lion they want or just throw in the towel and forget about Sea lion. If the UK goes after the Subs with their planes that leaves Italy un molested in the Med which is always good for Italy navy and the German player on G2 can do a all into Russia build with land units.
You are now having the UK make the hard choices which always leads to good things.
So this is a aggressive counter move to SZ102 which then also effects what the UK will do on Turn 1. SZ102 now has up to 5 subs going into SZ102 on G3 at the latest. Heck they could go on G2 and declare war on the USA if they drop 2CV and a DD in SZ102. It will not effect Germany on a G3 invasion because the USA counter is sunk. Furthermore Germany now has subs sitting in the middle of the Atlantic that causes disruption for the UK.
So, that is my counter to the counter.
IF Germany on G1 purchases a DD and a Sub. They could have up to 6 subs in the Atlantic at the start of G3 to contest SZ102. I cant see how making the UK chase subs with 1DD in the Atlantic is a bad idea.
Well what if on G3 they go with 20 units into Scotland?
USA is not at war until USA4 which means Germany can reload said TRS and hit London from both Scotland and SZ110 with up to 40 units. Now granted USSR will have some issue with this on USSR4 BUT London has fallen and fallen to the point that the USA might not be able to liberate it.
This goes back the give and take of the first 4 turns of the game. Axis do this and Allies do that.
