Posts made by Ozone27

@EmuGod:

Nice calculations. On T2, I usually like to make one attack either on Midway or either on Hawaii, while using the 2 other transports (one on the Sea of Japan and one on the Okhtok Sea) to ferry troops and tanks from Japan into Manchuria. I also like to purchase a complex if I can afford to, which I place either on India, French Indo-China or Manchuria. I like to use all the remaining infantry in China and Indo-china to attack Sinkiang. you’re right about the Germans crying for help by T3, but I find that unless I start quite an aggressive campaign on T1, the Russians can simply prepare their forces in the east and setup a reasonable defence. the invasion of Hawaii on T1 doesn’t put any pressure on Russia at all like the invasion of Soviet East Asia. By attacking Soviet East Asia, I find that Russian players move an infnatry unit or a tank eastward to help defend against more Japanese incursions. At least one infantry moving toward Japan from the East Front is better than nothing moving there.

True, but hitting Hawaii immediately puts pressure on the Americans, which is something Germany cannot do. Will they cede the Pacific to the IJN and risk a costly invasion of North America? Or will they launch an attack against you with whatever available units and hope they kill the same # of you as you of them? You have the advantage in the Pacific if you take Hawaii.

Besides, maybe later you can land a BMR or 2 and start Strategic Bombing USA… :lol: It could happen…

Basically if you play smart (that is, conservative) the 1st turn, you can just bottle up India & Ssinkiang till you’re ready to take them while driving in heavily on USSR on T2! Hawaii is not valuable economically, but is valuable strategically–the reason you take it T1 is to ensure you will hold onto your superiority in the Pacific. With your flank secure, you may drive in with all your might against Asia.

On a side note, many players discount USAs ability to do damage in the Pacific if let go. Keep in mind that there are 7 IPCs in the Pacific (11 counting Australia/New Zealand/Hawaii!)–a dominant USA can negate all your conquests in Asia by controlling the Pacific. Worse, if you don’t attack Hawaii T1 (or lose all your ships doing so) you enable a good USA player to fight you in the Pacific AND build a decent D-Day force in East USA at the same time. They are that rich. If you don’t attack P.H. and have a good reason, fine. But if you DO attack P.H. T1, you’d better be prepared to finish the job. Take Hawaii.

Ozone27

@Ozone27:

@TG:

The Destroyers in A&A:P (and A&A:E) are great “in between units” with the sub and battleship.

BTW: Don’t worry A&A: WWI will have Naval units up the wazoo (though no carrier :() so I’m sure you’ll have find something you like. Super-Dreadnoughts Drool :)

Cameron, I like your idea of half BB’s. Mind if I use it?

Axis & Allies WW1? Aside from the total contradiction in terms–can this be for real? Are they really planning this? How do you know? If this is true I will be STOKED BEYOND BELIEF–you can keep the CVs (although I will miss them :( ), watch me crush London with my Zeppelin raids! Hopefully they will enable one to recreate such forgotten events as the battle of Coronel, where the German Pacific Squadron defeated the ill-prepared British off the Chilean coast, or the flight of the L-59, the Zeppelin Germany launched to resupply their beleagured garrison in Tanganyika, Africa, flying continuously for 96 hours and covering over 4500 miles! An official WWI A & A variant would be a MUST-HAVE for me. Are you for real? If so, when, when, WHEN???

Sorry for the outburst :wink:

Ozone27

@TG:

“the funny thing is, i understand that at the end of ww2 we (canada) had the 3rd largest navy in the world.”

Where’d you hear that from, me? :wink: But CC is correct, Canada did have the 3rd largest navy in the world following ww2.

3rd LARGEST–sure. But don’t forget that most of those ships were tiny “corvette”-class sub-hunters–primitive even by 1940s standards. The fact that Canadian sailors in WWII were able to accomplish so much in such creaky ships is a testimony to their bravery and fortitude…

Ozone27

@TG:

The Destroyers in A&A:P (and A&A:E) are great “in between units” with the sub and battleship.

BTW: Don’t worry A&A: WWI will have Naval units up the wazoo (though no carrier :() so I’m sure you’ll have find something you like. Super-Dreadnoughts Drool :)

Cameron, I like your idea of half BB’s. Mind if I use it?

Axis & Allies WW1? Aside from the total contradiction in terms–can this be for real? Are they really planning this? How do you know? If this is true I will be STOKED BEYOND BELIEF–you can keep the CVs (although I will miss them :( ), watch me crush London with my Zeppelin raids! Hopefully they will enable one to recreate such forgotten events as the battle of Coronel, where the German Pacific Squadron defeated the ill-prepared British off the Chilean coast, or the flight of the L-59, the Zeppelin Germany launched to resupply their beleagured garrison in Tanganyika, Africa, flying continuously for 96 hours and covering over 4500 miles! An official WWI A & A variant would be a MUST-HAVE for me. Are you for real? If so, when, when, WHEN???

Sorry for the outburst :wink:

Ozone27

@EmuGod:

I still think that Japan should take China, India and Soviet East Asia on turn 1 while knocking out the fleet at Pearl Harbor. If Japan buys 2 trnsports and 3 infantry on turn 1, it can use those on turn 2 to attack either Midway or Hawaii if the US does not counter-attack or if it doesn’t succeed in defeating the fleet there. Japan can use the carrier, battleship and fighter from the Caroline Sea to attack Pearl on T1 along with the fighter from the Philippines and the sub form the Pacific. Attacking Indiea with the 2 infantry and fighter from Indo-China and the bomber from Japan should also be done, along with an assault on Soviet East Asia using 2 infantry and a fighter from Japan and the battleship there. The 2 infantry from Kwangtung, along with 2 infantry from Manchuria and the fighter there should attack China. On the non-combat move, Japan uses the transport on the Philippines to land either 1 or both of the infantry from the Pilippines at French Indo-China.

I can see you are an experienced player, but I must disagree. The odds in all these attacks are long. If you win 2 of these battles, you are likely to lose 2 as well, and that is bad.

Assuming there is only 2 INF and 1 FTR on India (in our games there is often 3 INF) , you are attacking w/ 2 INF 1 FTR and 1 BMR. The UK get 2 rolls at 2, 1-at-4. You will get 2-at-1, 1-at-3, and 1-at-4. That means the odds–while slightly in your favor–are more or less even, which means you are likely to take at least 2 hits (In my knee-jerk probability analysis). Will you lose a FTR or fail to take the territory?

What about China? There you are attacking w/ 4-at-1 and 1-at-3, where the U.S.-Supported Chinese Forces are defending at 2-at-2 and 1-at-4. You’d better hope that you score 2 hits on your first attack, or the Chinese will undoubtedly make at least 3 total hits (they may anyway) before they die, leaving you again holding a territory w/ 1 INF.

In Hawaii you will most assuredly win, with your 1-at-1 (CV), 1-at-2(plus no counter-SUB), 2-at-3 (FTRs) and 1-at-4 (BB), vs. 1-at-2, 1-at-3, and 1-at-4. But the US will practically ALWAYS score at least 1 hit at these odds, and might withdraw their SUB for a future counterattack. Assuming they’ve sunk just your SUB, they can then on their turn attack you w/ 1 TR, 2 FTR, 1 BMR and 1 BB. That’s 1-at-0, 2-at-3, and 2-at-4. They will score at least 2 hits, and you will have to lose 2 FTRs or 1 FTR and a BB (if you lose the CV, they can just rtereat and you automatically lose a FTR). Depending on how determined they are, USA may score another hit on round 2. Either way, it is now up to USA to decide whether they want to build another fleet to challenge you in the Pacific, or just build a D-Day force against Germany in the East–you have just ceded the initiative to USA.

The assault on Soviet Far East is sound, providing the Soviets have only 1 to 3 INF there (as they usually do). However if they left only 1 INF in SFE, which you destroyed w/ your BB, you are still leaving only 2 INF in SFE, 1 INF in Manchukuo, and (at best) 3 FTRs in Manchukuo. So you launch an attack against the Soviet forces in Yakut S.S.R T2. You can attack with, at maximum, 3 INF 3 FTRs and a BMR. That is 3-at-1, 3-at-3, and 1-at-4 vs. (presumably) 5-at-2. The Soviets will score either 1 or 2 hits before being destroyed, leaving your land forces in Asia in complete tatters. The Soviets will need to commit only, I’d say, 3-4 INF to prevent you from making any further inroads into their territory until you’ve had time to build up again–say 1-2 turns at best; and this is only assuming you have NOT made the attack on Midway/Hawaii you say you have planned for T2. This is not helping your German partner much.

So to recap, assuming you took India & lost a FTR there, T2 you are looking at: 2 INF SFE; 1 INF 2 FTR MANCHURIA; 1 INF CHINA; 2 INF 1 BMR F I/C BURMA; 1 INF INDIA; 3 TR 4 INF 1 ARM Japan, and maybe 1 CV Hawaii. You have indeed gained (given a little luck) 7 IPCs in Asia, but you must reinforce your units to make headway vs. the USSR and Ssinkiang, so you will basically lose a turn doing so. Again this is only assuming you have NOT made your planned Midway/Hawaii attack. Germany needs you to be WHALING on USSR by T3. What do you do…?

This is just intended as an honest critique. As I said I can see you are an experienced player and have planned this attack carefully. I am just not comfortable with 50%/50% odds unless the gains are very substantial. In a game where the Allies go for a “Germany pileup”–the worst case scenario–this plan would just not be effective. Perhaps if you knew the Allies were banking on a USA attack on the Pacific Islands it’d work, but if not, watch out!

Ozone27

@EmuGod:

I like to take Hawaii on turn 2 as Japan (if possible) rather than turn 1. It’s best to focus your forces on turn 1 against China and India and even Soviet East Asia if you’re feeling bold. Japan has the worst economy and needs to boost its economy quickly. Taking India, China and SEA will increase you 7 IPCs from when you started while taking China, Hawaii and India will increase your economy by only 6 IPCs.

Depending on what the Allies do T1, of course, attacking all those places at once seems like a bad idea. Unless the 3rd attack is very small, I don’t think Japan should attempt more than 2 major attacks T1–the reason is manpower–while the Allied forces in Asia are weak, on T1 so are the Japanese. Very often I’ve seen it happen that a player attacks China, Ssinkiang (or SFE) and India all at once and either cleared territories and not had enough INF left to take them, had to choose between losing a FTR or not taking the territory, or straight up lost after a couple bad dice rolls and had to retreat. I think its better to attack in just 2 places and pretty much know you are going to win and be set up for next turn’s attacks than to take a gamble and split your forces hoping for some good luck.

As far as the Hawaii attack, I think when you Pearl Harbor you should always try to sieze Hawaii at the same time–this prevents the Eastern USA FTR from participating should the Americans counterrattack on their turn. Use 1 INF from Japan, 1 from Wake Island, land them on Hawaii. Use the FTR from the CV against Hawaii as well. Use all available ships (except the Phillipines TR) against the USA fleet at Hawaii + the BMR from Japan and the FTR from Philippines (who can just barely make it). I think using both BBs is optional, you really only need 1 unless you fear counterrattack. Attack in China w/ 2 INF from Manchukuo, 1 INF from Kwangtung and your 3 remaining FTRs. You should take it w/ 1 INF.
On noncombat land all planes ( the Hawaii plane must land on the CV, the BMR should land on Manchuria, the China planes can land in Burma or Manchuria or split between). P/U 1 INF from Philippines, 1 INF Japan and land them on Manchuria. Move the 1 INF from Kwangtung to Burma. Place the 2 TRs and 3 INF you built on Japan. Next turn you will be able to land 4 INF, 1 ARM in Asia and can commence really kicking butt…

I think Japan can be one of the most dynamic & exciting countries to play, but don’t overextend yourself and start losing battles–your German ally is counting on you to steadily drive in against USSR, and having to rebuild shattered armies is a good way to let him down…

Just some thoughts…

Ozone27

Y’know crypt, TG, I hadn’t thought of that! Germany would have to split her defense forces between Western Europe and F/N, so neither terrotory would be well-enough defended. Germany would have to do this because, strategically if not economically, it’d make Norway as important as Western Europe. Germany’d have to be making a LOT of money to be able to beef up buth territories to the point where they were well-enough defended, and that’d leave precious little resources for fighting Russia.

There’s got to be a better way–the way it is now, F/N is just this wierd little island way out in the North Sea, undefendable by Germany and without resupply…

Ozone27

I’ve been thinking lately about common sense rules changes that might obviate the necessity many players feel in adding alternate rules to improve balance in the game. My crew recently (some would say finally) adopted the “Russia Restricted” rules to good results, but as many players improve they find they need more and more rules tweaks to make the game “fair”…

One thing I’ve long been an advocate of is a new Sea Zone in the central Atlantic. This SZ should separate East Canada and North Sea SZs and extend through the line between West Europe (Spain) SZ and East USA SZ. This would make the trip across the North Atlantic for USA TRs take an extra turn and open the USA fleet up for attack by Germany BEFORE they could invade. It also would prevent the illogic of a German FTR flying from West Europe to Hudson Bay and back in 1 turn. But the real advantage of this plan would be that it would give Germany some realistic chance that SUBs deployed in the North Atlantic would have some chance of doing some good for Germany. As it is no one I know even bothers with SUBs as Germany, which to me should be part of the flavor of playing the country…

The other idea I just came up with would solve a major peeve of mine (or at least ameliorate it)-- that is that the Allies just dominate Finland-Norway & the Baltic SZ! Germany held control of these important links to major raw-materials centers throughout the war, but in A & A the Allies controlling them is practically a foregone conclusion! The solution, I think would be to make Skagerrak ( the strait between Denmark & Norway) a “canal zone” just like the Suez–land forces can cross between West Europe and Finland/Norway while naval units cannot cross into Baltic Sea without owning BOTH sides. Air units would be unaffected (just like Suez). This would prevent units in Algeria from jumping over to Germany in 1 turn (unless the team held both sides), but more importantly would enable Germany to hold onto, and possibly launch attacks from, an important land/air base in Norway. That Strait is just so narrow, and the currents so (relatively) calm, that a flotilla of boats with even momentary naval superiority would have no problem navigating it. As it is, the territory almost might as well start with an Allied marker on it 'cuz it tends to go quickly, and serves virtually no strategic usefulness to Germany at all.

Just an idea…

Ozone27

Thanks, TG! :)

I’ve been experimenting with a couple of different options but I can’t seem to make it work in conjunction w/ an effective Pearl Harbor (a big problem). I think a minimum force that might be useful to Germany is either 2 BBs or a CV and at least 1 FTR + any possible support craft (thus 1/2 of the “starting fleet”). If anybody can figure a reliable way to do a P.H. and this as well it’d be really cool. Only other way I can figure is to take Australia T1 (w/ 1 INF from Philippines, 1 from Borneo, 1 TR from Philippines, 1 CV fron Solomons, 1 FTR from Solomons & 1 BB from Solomons w/ the Carolines SUB for defense). This is a pretty hefty force for a T2 invasion of India–possibly TOO much, and this lets the USA fleet withdraw into the Atlantic undamaged if such is their want. I guess the theory is that the real battleground is in Europe/Africa (in the Allied-Germany pileup) so it’s better if Japan moves her attack forces there early rather than in Asia where she will presumably dominate. Plan definitely needs some work, but I think w/ some tweaking it could be workable…

Of course, German ownership of the Suez is a MUST!

I played this scenario 1nce and it worked, next time the Suez was blocked and the plan was thwarted–watch out!

Ozone27

I think it really depends on the specifics–how experienced are the other players and how willing is the new guy to take advice from the others before getting frustrated he “can’t make his own decisions”. If the rest of the players are of moderate experience, and the new guy is willing to take some direction from his teammates, he/she should be able to have a pretty good game with just about any power (except Germany–that takes a lot of experience against good players). For instance it is very easy for inexperienced USA players to “turtle” and just keep building and building with no results, but with a little coaching, a newbie will learn to make attacks quickly. Japan would be a good country to play for this kind of game because the other players would probably enjoy the surprising moves such a newbie might make as Japan, and it might be good for everybody’s skills.

If on the other hand, the other players are very experienced and there is a newbie, the situation will be more difficult. The newbie will require a lot of direction and might get frustrated with everyone “telling him what to do”. In this case I’ll go out on a limb and suggest he/she play USSR–although USSR starts 1st, so they might need a “dry run” to see how the game is played. The overall concept of USSR (though not necessarily the execution) is easy to learn–protect your territory, exploit weaknesses–and USSR usually requires a lot of help from his/her Allies anyway, so it might be easier to get the newbie to go along.

Above all its important for all players to remember it’s just a game, and give the newbie a firm grasp of the rules, and a good understanding of basic strategy. Giving the newbie a couple of breaks the first game might help to make it more fun (like maybe a free tech). Remember that a new guy is just starting to play and might not want to play again if the game is no fun and people are unsportsmanlike, which’d be a real shame 'cuz A & A is really cool! :wink:

Ozone27

You can play on GameSpy (last I checked) but there are very few players there…

As far as the Germany pile-on strategy, it is basically an easy strategy that doesn’t require a lot of thought and is solid if unspectacular. It will win a few games, leading the people that do it to think they are clever strategists. What it really does is put all the pressure for the Axis on Japan and therefore the Japan player has to be pretty active in order for the Axis to win.

One thing to do, heathbar is think of the game in naval terms–UK/USA/Japan have it (and depend on it), Germany and USSR don’t. The only way USA/UK can put pressure on you (aside from a buildup in USSR or by airraids) is to build fleet units to attack you, so the easiest way to prevent that is to block their fleets. But this is hard to do for Germany because they are not essentially a naval power, so have to rely on expensive FTRs rather than less-expensive SUBs and more efficient CVs: often if you try to float any of these they are immediately sunk and HUGE IPC investments lost.

You definitely need to take over Africa, but this will get difficult when the Allies sink your navy. One thing you can do is have Japan sieze India w/ support of 1/2 her navy and then sail thru the Suez–now you’ve got a more substantial Navy in the Med which helps to threaten the Allies’ TRs–it also makes it less risky to build a few SUBs when they have a force defending them–a few SUBs, if they survive the trip to the Atlantic and combined w/ air power, can majorly disrupt Allied invasion plans and are a LOT more cost-effective for this purpose than just FTRs.

Most importantly, don’t let the Allies get off with an easy trade: if there is NO PRESSURE on Japan, they should have to suffer for it–Japan should take advantage quickly and start attacking in Asia and linking up w/ German forces to help them out.

Arggh! TG Moses 2-Hit BBs, while a perfectly good A & A rule, are NOT “militaristically” nor historically correct! BBs were by WWII dangerously vulnerable to aircraft fire and/or the torpedo–in spite of various improvements since the 30s including reinforced bulkheads, increased speed & compartmentalization and additional AA defense. CVs just DOMINATED WWII and this is reflected in (regular) A & A. Not knocking “2-hit BBs” as a rule or BBs in reality (they are very cool!) just pointing out “2-hit BBs” is not historically accurate, as I am sure the U.S. Defense Dept. would agree :wink: !

As far as the strategy suggested, I think KING TIGER, as usual, summed it up…'nuff said…

Ozone27

Yes…North Sea and the Barents SZ are indeed already 2 separate Sea Zones.

I have always thought there should be an extra SZ between Canada and North Sea–ships SHOULD hafta take an extra turn to cross the Atlantic, giving German U-boats a realistic chance to confront them. As it is, this important aspect of WWII is totally ignored, as ships built in East USA can sail into England totally unopposed on a single turn–unless Germany can block the route entirely w/ U-boats which as we all know is impossible unless the Axis have already basically won…

Ozone27

P.S. The Bering Strait should remain 2 SZs however–do you have any idea how difficult that Sea is to cross? May be only 50 miles at it’s narrowest point, but shifting ice, sudden squalls and powerful currents (not to mention towering waves and biting cold) make the Bering one of the most treacherous of seas. When its frozen over its little better, in some ways even worse–recently an expedition set out with fully modern tractors and equipment to cross the ice from Asia to North America and were defeated by the shifting and dangerous pack ice near Alaska. That’s with 90’s technology, not '40s. The only reason people were ever able to “walk” across the Bering Strait was because it wasn’t there at the time–when the (future) native Americans came over it was dry land…

[ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-04-24 21:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Ozone27 on 2002-04-24 21:42 ]

I recall hearing a legend somewhere of the last known Japanese “MIA” being discovered by some children in the Philippines sometime in the late '60’s. Sounds like “Weekly World News” type of stuff to me, but ya never know.

In WW1 a Zeppelin crewman somehow survived the crash of his ship and wandered around England for several weeks before being caught. If that was possible in a densely populated Great Power, where there was no “Resistance Movement” to lend a hand, who knows how long a single guy in the bush (especially one as highly trained in jungle survival as the Japanese soldier) could hold out. Still, merely conjecture…

Ozone27

Yeah, it was more like a CA with BC guns. Cool design idea, but the “Deutschland class” was downgraded during the war to CA status…

Ozone27

Screw the 3 IPCs for INF–spend 12 IPCs for some FTRs!!! :grin:

Good ol’ Swiss-built “Zeros” for use by the Fatherland…

Ozone27

Huh! I always thought a SUBs submerging ability was the same as “withdrawing” in place–that is, you get a counterattack at any naval units attacking you and may then submerge or withdraw. That adds a different dynamic to things…

Ozone27

Graf Spee wasn’t technically a BB, but what the hell–cool rules… :grin: !

Ozone27

I assume you mean “evac Australia”…

Ozone27

No, he’s talking about numbers not values in other words–if yer playing defensive, buy INF, if you are playing aggressive, go roughly 50%/50%.

I agree with some reservations depending on circumstances–interested to see his #s

Ozone27