Posts made by ossel

It’d be kind of cool if there was some sort of breakthrough rule…like, if a territory is captured (read: overrun), the attacking player may move all his tanks and 1 inf per tank to a territory adjacent to the captured territory, and may engage in another combat round there. That’d give an awesome incentive for buying tanks, and it’d be pretty accurate to what they were actually used for.

Has anyone ever thought of combining both the board game and the miniatures game into a gargantuan, Total War-like strategy game?

I know it’s probably not even close to doable, but what if you played the game on the world map, then instead of resolving each battle with dice, you took it to another table with miniatures (representing the size of the force on the world map), and played a miniatures game to decide who wins the battle?

Let me go ahead and say that I know this type of game would take weeks (months?) to finish, and I’m almost completely ignorant of how well the miniatures game would mesh with the inputs and outputs of the world map game, but I can dream, can’t I?  :lol:

@Flashman:

OK, but the issue is more acute here when we consider the huge difference in combat effectiveness that tanks have changing from attack to defence.

What I’m wondering is: What happened between WW1 and WW2 that made tanks 3X more effective at defense? I know tanks in this period were used mainly for offense (because the Allies were pretty much the only ones who had them, and they were on the offensive), but what’s to say a tank sitting still couldn’t contribute a lot to defense?

@Gargantua:

You cannot hold a castle without first having legal title to it.

Uhmm…

I’m going to dispute this ludicrous claim.

Unless you agree, that ‘legal title’ is a synonym for ‘claimed by force’.

Sure, to a certain extent. But it’s a lot easier to become the Queen of England by marrying the King of England than by invading it.

@Flashman:

Capture the castle, eh?

Medieval history was nothing like that. An accurate game of the middle ages would be mainly about arranging marriages.

I have such a design, but strangely nobody seems interested in developing it.

Not to mention that, as most medieval strategy games seem to forget, THERE WERE NO STANDING ARMIES. Everyone just went home at the end of the campaign season, and harvested their crops. Get ready to remove all your units from the board at the end of each turn.

I actually have a game design for a medieval strategy game I made. It involves seasonal armies, noble lineages, supplies, and yes, arranged marriages. I’d like to compare notes Flashman. PM me if you’re interested.

@Flashman:

Given that (I assume) an unlimited number of units can be built directly into the capital, these tts are likely to be very tough to crack; so why not have revolution rules for every power? If you want to KISS and not do the morale thing then relate it simply to number of home tts occupied.

Yeah, I like your morale system (haven’t read it, where’s it posted?), and especially the fact that it applies to everyone. After all, the Germans had their own revolution at the end of the war.

@Flashman:

Has what always been the case?  This is a completely new combat system.

I think what he means is: Hasn’t it always been the case that a unit can only attack once, and yet can be attacked multiple times (from multiple nations)?

@CWO:

@ossel:

If using my “Operation Valkyrie” scenario (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30059.0), all SS units are arrested if a zone chooses to comply with the order, and are removed from play until the scenario is resolved. If a zone stays loyal or converts back to loyal, the units are moved back onto the map.

What I’m wondering about this rule is: exactly who would arrest the Waffen SS?  The police?  By 1944, the police forces in Germany were pretty much under the control of the Nazi Party, if not actual branches of the SS and the Gestapo.  The Wehrmacht?  Since the Waffen SS are elite military units, I’m not sure why they’d quietly lay down their arms and agree to be arrested by the regular army without a fight, especially following the assassination of Hitler by high-ranking army officers.

This is why in my Operation Valkyrie rule, there is a caveat that each zone can decide whether to comply with the order. In the actual event, the Wehrmacht did indeed manage to neutralize the SS in some areas. From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944_Adolf_Hitler_assassination_attempt):

Meanwhile, Carl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel, military governor of occupied France, managed to disarm the SD and SS, and captured most of their leadership. …. City Commandant, and conspirator, General Paul von Hase ordered the Wachbataillon Großdeutschland, under the command of Major Otto Ernst Remer, to secure the Wilhelmstraße and arrest Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels. In Vienna, Prague, and many other places troops occupied Nazi Party offices and arrested Gauleiters and SS officers.

If you read my rule, it states that if the assassination is successful, the remaining SS units will absolutely fight those allied with the responsible army officers.

@Flashman:

Good luck with that.

Reminder: Revolution is an optional rule.

Really Flashman? I expected you to dive into this one headfirst.

Well, this one’s tough, because in history, Russia and Germany haggled over territory Germany had already taken, and in the game, we don’t know in advance how many/which territories they will take. We can assume, however, that Germany (or the Central Powers in general) will have at least 4 Russian territories, since this is a condition for the Revolution occurring according to Larry’s rule.

Three or more territories adjacent to Moscow are controlled by the Central Powers.

At least one other original Russian territory is controlled by the Central Powers or contested.

Moscow is controlled by Russia or contested.

So maybe the CP have to return all the territories adjacent to Moscow, and get to keep the additional territory? I don’t know. Not even sure if Larry will address it; from his writeup its seems like Russia just disappears from the game.

I know this type of thing doesn’t appeal to everyone. Is it necessary? No. Is it balanced? Not really, there’s no insta-lose for the U.S. or Japan. But I tend to like things like this that break up playing “just another game” of A&A and giving players a story to tell.

For instance, in one of my games in college, the Russian player felt like his U.S. and U.K. allies were not making a good effort to engage Germany in the West; he was taking a beating on the Eastern Front. So, I (the German player) proposed a peace treaty. Russia allied with Germany and Japan, and the remaining Allies were punished for their incompetence.

Was this game balanced? No. Was it fun? Hell yes. In all the games I played, that’s the one that sticks out in my mind, even though it was completely lopsided.

@Gargantua:

@Maofator:

We’ve use Xeno’s rules of rolling a dice 1-2 (D6), 1-4 (D12), or 1-7 (D20) assassination is successful. German player receives a permanent 5 IPC/turn increase. If the player rolls a 6 (D6), 11-12 (D12), 18-20 (D20) the German player must remove 2 Infantry and 2 Armor. Any rolls in between simply fail with no effects. This can only be attempted once per game.

This is way more exciting.

There’s a possible good, and a possible bad.  It’s also simple - Way better.

This doesn’t make any sense in a historical context…The conspirators stated that if the plot was successful they would immediately sue for peace with the Allies. Why would they receive greater production if Hitler was killed, and continue the war? Why would they lose random tank units if the plot failed?

Maybe my rule is more complex, but to me it makes more sense and adds more interest.

@Gargantua:

Uhmm… other than adding a 50% gamble on a dice roll, that germany can lose any given game -even- if they are winning.

What is the purpose of adding this?

I’m all for things -like- this, but I don’t see any benefit these rules bring to the game, or any of the playersa other than sumizing that a quick dice roll can end the game based on random reasons.

Good theory, but needs to be rehashed.

Maybe, but I think your assertion that it’s a 50% gamble for Germany to lose the game is more than a little off…Let’s look at the math.

1. Odds that Operation Valkyrie takes place (assuming conditions are met, which, if Germany is winning, may not be a safe assumption. After all, Valkyrie was attempted because members of German High Command felt that Hitler was causing Germany to lose the war):
1/2, or 50%

2. Odds that Operation Valkyrie takes place AND Hitler is killed:
1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 or 25%

3. Odds that O.V. takes place AND Hitler is killed AND all territories (let’s assume 7) go with the order (German insta-lose):
1/2 x 1/2 x 1/128 = 1/512 or 0.2%

I’m not going to break down the odds of if so many territories go one way or the other, but you get the idea.

On the other side of things, Germany has more than a decent chance of coming out of the scenario completely unscathed:

1: Odds that Operation Valkyrie does NOT take place:
1/2, or 50%

2. Odds that Operation Valkyrie doesn’t take place OR O.V. does take place AND Hitler is not killed:
1/2 + 1/2 x 1/2 = 3/4, or 75%

3. Odds that O.V. doesn’t take place OR O.V. does take place AND Hitler is not killed AND all territories go SS:
1/2 + 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/128 = 257/512, or 50%

I got the inspiration for this rule from (as you may have guessed) the 2008 film, when I suddenly realized, “Damn, the war could have been over if they had succeeded!”

In my opinion, if anything needs to be tweaked, it’s the conditions to be met. I designed them to only be met late in the game, when the tide has turned against Germany. Maybe I need to add more/different conditions to reflect that.

What is the purpose of adding this?

I like interesting historical scenarios, and in terms of game mechanics, this adds interest and may shorten the game.

(To be used with Historicalboardgaming.com’s “SS” markers: http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/HBG-SS-Marker-Acrylic_p_763.html)

Background

The SS was a major paramilitary organization of the Nazi party that grew to rival the Wehrmacht in size and influence. In this ruleset, the German player may choose to enhance some of his units by making them into divisions of the Waffen-SS, the front line military arm of the SS. The units will have advantages over normal units, but limitations as well.

Setup

At the beginning of Germany’s first turn, take 3 “SS” markers and place each on an infantry stack with 3 units. This forms an SS division. For the initial placement, if there are more than 3 units in the stack, separate them before designating one as SS. All SS divisions must remain at at least 3 units strength, unless hits are taken in battle.

Expanding the SS

Every turn, one infantry unit may be added to each division if it is based in a zone with an industrial complex. Divisions may not be split up or have units taken from them unless the division has 6+ units, in which case it may be split into divisions of at least 3. When a division splits, the new stack is considered a separate division, and therefore can be added to one unit at a time along with its counterparts. Also, division splitting may only occur in the non-combat move phase.

As the war went on, the SS grew in size and scope. Starting in the purchase units phase of turn 3, the German player can designate 2 stacks of 3 (existing) tanks to be SS panzer divisions. These units can be added to (one unit at a time) just like the infantry divisions.

Advantages

SS units have modified stats, listed below.

SS Infantry attack on 2 under any circumstances. When fighting in Germany, West Germany, or Greater Southern Germany, SS infantry defend on 3.

SS Panzer divisions can attack on 4.

Disadvantages

As mentioned above, SS divisions can NEVER divide during the combat move phase or for tactical reasons, and they cannot exist as a stack less than 3 units. The only exception is if a front line unit takes casualties in combat.

If using my “Operation Valkyrie” scenario (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30059.0), all SS units are arrested if a zone chooses to comply with the order, and are removed from play until the scenario is resolved. If a zone stays loyal or converts back to loyal, the units are moved back onto the map.

(To be used with Historicalboardgaming.com’s “SS” markers (http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/HBG-SS-Marker-Acrylic_p_763.html), can also use turned over German markers)

Background

Operation Valkyrie is an optional scenario to play late in the game to simulate the events and possible outcomes of the historical plan to assassinate Hitler that took place in 1944. If successful, it can serve to greatly shorten a Europe/Global 1940 game.

Conditions

The following conditions must be met for the operation to take place:

• It must be at least Turn 3.
• Germany must be at war with Russia.
• Either the UK or USA must have had units in Continental Europe for one complete turn.

When it is Germany’s turn and the conditions have been met, roll a die. An “even” result means the operation is initiated. Note that this can only happen once per game.

Outcomes

In history, the plan was based on having the reserve army in each of Germany’s territories arrest the Nazi/SS leadership in the event of Hitler’s death.

The scenario can have many different outcomes based on what happens in the next few steps.

1. First, for each German-held territory, roll a die.

a.  An “even” result means it will be compliant to the order, and go along with the plan to remove the SS.

b.  “Odd” means it does not follow the order, and remains loyal to the SS. Place an “SS” marker in the territory if this is the case.

2. Once all German territories declare their intentions, roll a die to see if the plot to kill Hitler is successful.

a.  If the result is “even,” Hitler is dead and it has been confirmed with all Wehrmacht officers. Immediately convert Germany to a compliant zone if it was loyal in the first check. Roll again for the loyal zones, giving them another chance to follow the directive.
          i.  If loyal zones remain, the compliant zones join the Allies, and fight against the remaining SS zones.
          ii.  If all zones join the plot (or are destroyed), the compliant zones join the allies, return all original Allied territories, and remain Neutral for the rest of the game.

b.  If the result is “odd,” Hitler survived the attempt on his life. Germany immediately converts to a loyal zone if it was compliant in the first check. Check to see how many compliant zones and how many loyal zones there are.
          i.  If there are more loyal zones, the plot has failed and the operation’s leaders are arrested. Remove one infantry from each compliant zone and convert them to loyal zones.
          ii. If there are more compliant zones than loyal zones, the loyal zones defect and join the Allies. If the remaining loyal zones are destroyed in the war, follow step 2.a.ii.

Preface: I’m somewhat new here, so I’m sure there are other house rules for this topic that I’m not aware of, but this is my attempt at what makes the most sense to me.

Vichy France and Free France House Rules
(To be used with appropriate markers from Historicalboardgaming.com, http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/Custom-Roundel–Free-Vichy-French_p_369.html)

Capitulation and Armistice

If France and Normandy fall to the Axis, immediately remove any units (Allied or otherwise) from Southern France and place a Vichy marker on the territory. Place a Vichy marker on the IPC production chart on “3” (the value of Southern France). Place 4 alternate colored infantry units (old versions of Germans work well) on Southern France and an extra Minor Industrial Complex in Germany* (As part of France’s capitulation, Germany took over 2 million French soldiers as laborers). Vichy France is controlled by the German player.

*I know technically, no more than one IC can be in a territory, and practically, Germany will not produce 13 units in the same zone, so I’m open to suggestions on how to represent the French laborers.

The Colonies and the Free French Movement

At the creation of the Vichy France government, roll a die for each French territory on the map.

An “even” result means the territory joins De Gaulle’s “Free French” movement. Place a Free French marker on the territory and on the IPC production chart on the value of the territory. Move the IPC marker up for any additional territories that join the movement.

An “odd” result means the territory remains loyal to the Vichy French government. Replace any French Units with equivalent alternate colored units. Move Vichy’s IPC marker up for each territory that joins.

Roll for each French fleet on the map, and replace all units in a fleet if they choose the Vichy government.

The units in England remain Free French.

Every turn, Free France may convince one unoccupied Vichy colony to join their movement. Roll as before, and place a marker if the territory turns.

Special Rules

When a territory is “liberated” by the Allies, it becomes Free French.

When a territory is “liberated” by the Axis, it can either become Vichy or be occupied.

Vichy France may collect IPC income, but can only purchase Infantry, Anti-Air, transports, and destroyers. It must also give 1D6 of its IPC income to Germany every turn (Germany required the Vichy government to pay for its troops in the Northern Occupied Zone).

Free France may collect IPC income, but may not purchase or place any units until an Industrial Complex is built in one of its territories.

Vichy France may not move units into any territory in Europe. It may move units out of Europe via transports, and it may attack and move normally in the colonies.
Axis troops may move through Vichy France and its colonies freely.

Collapse of the Vichy Government

If Vichy is attacked by the Allies directly, it will defend as if it was a member of the Axis. If, however, Normandy and France are taken by the Allies, all Vichy units in Southern France disband, and control passes to whatever Axis units remain in the territory. If and when Southern France falls to the Allies, all Vichy units abroad disband and control of all colonies passes to the Free French.

@BJCard:

Hell, if you have 5-6 Arm in a stack with supporting Infantry/Artillery it would be near impregnable.

Yeah, I think that’s the idea. Tanks led the way against the heavily-defended trenches, and so helped minimize infantry casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_officer_ranks_of_World_War_II

I guess according to this I should make a special insignia just for Stalin: “Generalissimus of the Soviet Union”….oh the Soviets…gotta love 'em.

But you can see that a so-called “6-star” was a real rank, General (Admiral) of the Armies (Navy), and was just under the president, and above 5-stars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Armies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_of_the_navy

In the German case, Hermann Goring was a “Reichsmarschall,” their version of the 6-star, and the direct successor to Hitler.

@Flashman:

Just reading tank rules again, and perhaps I’ve missed something, but I’m struggling to see why anyone would buy a tank instead of (for the same money) two infantry.

In attack:

Your two infantry roll 2 dice at 2 or 3; the tank rolls 1 die at 2 or 3 and cancels 1 enemy hit.

In defence:

Your infantry roll 2 dice at 3; the tank rolls 1 die at 1.

The only countries I can see investing in tanks are the US and UK, simply because a single transport can ship 2 tanks (i.e. 12 IPCs worth of units) rather than wasting cargo space on 2 infantry.

Yeah, I’m not really sure why he went with making the tank’s advantage be a defensive one (absorbing hits). The tank was almost a purely offensive weapon; it seems as if bumping up the attack value would be a natural choice.

Then again, I suppose in a way tanks did minimize infantry casualties by nullifying the defensive effect of trenches to a certain degree.

Yeah, that’s the idea. You’ll find that the higher ranks make their way to the back of the lines naturally…since they can reach farther you can afford to have then further out of harms way.

As for the whole 6-star issue…I know the rank is rare in American history, and was non-existent in the war on the American side, but I wanted it to be a possibility.

I agree it might be a bit of a time savings, but I kind of like seeing “almost” hits…like a few 3’s when I need 2’s.

I know, I know, statistically it wasn’t “almost” anything…a 3 in that case is just as bad as a 6. I just like the idea that my guys almost held out.