BB in 111 doesn’t repair at the beginning of its turn - no harbor in Scotland.
Good call on that. I was too 110 centric.
I suppose if I had a BB survive in 111 I’d send it to 109 to meet up with any ships I had left. If people send the house at 110 and 111 you may be looking at 2 DD, the BB and a cruiser. I usually buy 2 fighters for UK1, which would mean 6 scrambles (if both bases are utilized).
Can someone further explain the strategy of retreating the BB back to SZ112 during your attack on SZ111 or SZ110? I do not fully understand how it works. Also are you only retreating the BB or everything? I don’t have my rules to reference, can you retreat individual units out or is it all or none? Thanks for the help and info.
Ideally, you leave the UK with a damaged BB that can’t be protected from a follow-up attack on G2, and your BB retreats to SZ112 where it covers the trans/cruiser and any ships bought in G1 (usually AC, often also a DD/sub). BB+AC+5 planes (3 from scramble) makes it a poor choice for the UK to try to attack, leaving you with a fleet that can be used in various ways, either protecting Germany, setting up for Sealion, moving down to the Med, or moving troops through the Baltic. Since Germany really doesn’t have the luxury of buying ships past G1 if it wants to be successful in the attack on Russia, the fleet becomes an irreplaceable strategic asset. If it survives into G6, it can then form the core of a larger fleet (supplement with additional AC/subs) to be used more offensively.
Not seeing how the UK BB in either 110 or 111 cannot be protected from a G2 attack. It’ll repair at the beginning of its turn and can retreat far enough as to not be hit.
Am I missing something?
Great point on the DD in 110. The BB is definitely overkill, albeit a fun thought.
I just like the idea of having a big fleet up by London on UK1
If Germany needs to give up the attack on SZ111 in G1 it’s not a huge deal, there are better benefits the Allies can get on a 40 bid.
I agree there are better ways to spend, but I don’t necessarily agree that it’s not a big deal for the 111 fleet to survive. Starting the game with an extra UK BB, C and 2 DD (assuming the bid I mentioned earlier) would be a big. Park them in 109 with your other surviving ships (the DD and transport in 109 and possibly the DD and transport in 106) and you’re talking a BB, C, 3-4 DD and at least five planes that can scramble. Turn one and the UK already has a large Atlantic presence.
If I get to Norway fast enough as the US I’ll build a minor on Finland after taking it (having two minors up there can be great).
As for Germany? I don’t know if it makes sense. If the plan is to build infantry, you’re talking G5 before you can even have 3 inf in Leningrad. Doesn’t seem worth it to me
Yea, an extra Scotland fighter (Bid) really throws a wrench in the plans.
Agreed.� Still crazy to me when I hear about bids in the 30s and 40s.� UK can hold onto a lot of fleet under those circumstances.�
Not when you take into account that you can only place 1 bid unit per territory, so stacking Scotland with 2 extra fighters is out. Adding one makes SZ111 more treacherous but it’s still in Germany’s favor. You’d have to also bid extra cruisers or BBs to save one or the other, and there are better places to put bid units than that.
That one extra fighter in Scotland from a bid makes it difficult to take out 110 and 111. You can get away with either one but you cant do both without risking some serious Luftwaffe losses.
Exactly. If the Allies took a 26 bid and went ftr in Scotland and an extra DD in 110 and 111 it causes serious problems for Germany. There may be better places to put units, but these options would help.
I saw someone mention a 40 bid recently and instantly thought “Ok, fighter in Scotland, DD in 111, BB in 110, with 8 ipc to spare!?”
Correct.� I should’ve clarified; since JDOW1 is very popular the US may have the chance to get over there as early as US2
Not to change/hurt this topic but I do not have the experience many of you do so I don’t understand this strategy. Why is JDOW in round 1 popular?
Plenty of people will chime in on this, but the general idea is that a JDOW1 is the most powerful Japan move, as you can wipe out some extra Allied units that normally get away, specifically the India BB, the sub and DD off the Philippines, plus reduce India’s income immediately.
I personally don’t like it. I’ve played it myself (following the guide written by Cow) without much success, and I’ve played against it with ample success.
More games I play the more I like the neutral crush for the Allies. Hell, with a heavy enough EUS buy in round 1 the US can be in Spain as early as US2.
I must not think outside the box enough. US can attack neutrals when not at war with the Axis and before they are brought in during round 4?
No. Must be referring to a J 1 Dow.
Correct. I should’ve clarified; since JDOW1 is very popular the US may have the chance to get over there as early as US2
With bids now getting solidly up into the mid 20s, a lot of things now depend on what kid of starting bid the allies choose.� There will be cases where it may make sense to skip either z110 or z111 and go for the z91 cruiser or even the french ships.
Yea, an extra Scotland fighter (Bid) really throws a wrench in the plans.
Agreed. Still crazy to me when I hear about bids in the 30s and 40s. UK can hold onto a lot of fleet under those circumstances.
@ABWorsham:
You could also try playing Europe or Pacific separately just to get a feel for the differences.�
Best way to go about it if possible: play several live games with experienced players
You can’t beat the experience of playing with flesh and blood players, good way to make friends.
Exactly. This is one of the reasons I really don’t play online. It’s just not the same for me. I’ve been fortunate to find some great players on this board who have become great friends.
OP, take a look in the find players section and see if anyone lives nearby
Usually in the minority here but I’m a firm believer you build heavy early in the Atlantic and then catch up in the Pacific.
Early investments in the east can pay off quickly. I’m a big fan of 4 transports, 1 DD and 1 CV in EUS on US1. The Atlantic Allies have to create a threat early or Germany will run away with the game. Japan can certainly become a beast, but you can harass them enough to at least slow them down a little (i.e. get the Siberian troops to Amur turn 2, do what you can with China, etc.) Even after Japan gets India they still have to get Sydney or Hawaii.
Something that is always odd to me: the general consensus seems to be that the US should attack Japan first. However, the popular thinking on the Axis side is that Germany can take Moscow by turn 5 or 6. If Germany can take Moscow that early, effectively ending the game, then why wouldn’t the Allies want to create a strong Atlantic presence first? :?
This Norway move takes way too long to execute and doesn’t do much to cripple Germany. Under the best conditions, its US 4 at Gibraltar and US 5 at SZ112 to Norway, which is often a very dangerous place for you to put your fleet as the Allies. You could potentially be crossing to SZ 119, but that costs you a SeaBase and you are still only gaining the SZ 125 position.
The sad fact is that by the time you take this 8IPCs away from Germany, he has already got 60-70 income. You don’t really diminish his forces this way, as in most games the pieces that Germany had in Scandinavia have joined on the attack with Russia. Ideally, it is Russia that takes Finland and Norway rather than the Western Allies since that gives them a NO of +3, but of course that would require diverting critical troops.
It does potentially create a backdoor to revive Russia, but a relief fleet can reach Novogrod as well, which is a much more strategic position to be in with both your fleet and your land.
It is not really any more appealing for the Western Allies to attack the Atlantic Wall or the Mediterranean either, so attacking Norway may be a “best of worst” option since it is much harder for Germany to defend and could potentially diminish their income at a time when they need to build in many directions. But because they will be right at the door to Moscow at this point, you may not have your UK support fighters to count on, and in any event, it doesn’t seem like the Allies are capable of taking a well defended Norway AND attacking some other useful objective at the same time.
If that were the case (that you could take Norway with a small, sacrificial fleet and not be subject to any german counteroffensives) then do it. But it won’t usually play out like that and in order to safely build the MiC there you will have to bring all the US and probably all the UK pieces up there to do it.
Some good points in here. I like to take Norway with the US (or UK early on if possible) but I do agree that if Russia can get in there it’s more worthwhile.
More games I play the more I like the neutral crush for the Allies. Hell, with a heavy enough EUS buy in round 1 the US can be in Spain as early as US2.
You could also try playing Europe or Pacific separately just to get a feel for the differences.
Best way to go about it if possible: play several live games with experienced players
Welcome to the boards. Feel like we’re seeing a lot of new faces lately.
Come on, man, it’s even on the front page of the forum at the moment:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30776
Regardless, welcome!
Thank you for your assumptions and condescension, I am sure you are a treat to play with. I have read through that topic and it was not clearly stated. It was full of many rulebook quotes but no direct answers or explanations.
Teslas is good people. I assure you he (she?) was being friendly
Very well said Shadow. I’ve been a big advocate that the Allies are not doomed from the get go and you articulated it very well.
Someone mentioned that the Allies require a different mindset and that’s certainly true. One thing I’ve learned to be absolutely true: the Allies cannot win if the US and UK are not on the exact same page. Let’s say you’re playing a 2 on 2 game, with the Allies broken up as Russia, UK, France, and US, China, Anzac: if the US has an idea and the UK will simply not cooperate (or vice versa) you may as well just pack it up.
A recent game I played as the UK I had this exact problem. The forces were ready to hit hard and I was pushing for Norway. It was there for the taking, but the US player absolutely would not do it because they wanted to hit the Med. I firmly believe that if the Atlantic Allies are hanging around the Med turn 5, 6, 7, etc. that they have lost the game (which is exactly what happened).
Shadow, I’ve been working on an Allied strategy guide but I’m having the exact problem you mentioned: writing a guide based on completely theoretical moves. Still working on it though!
Also why not allow more then 1 unit for each zone.
Too easy at that point, no?
On a 28 bid the Allies could absolutely stack a spot. If you’re talking unlimited, how about 9 inf in Yunan? Japan will never gain control of Asia.
And, once again, since I love these theoretical bids:
8 inf 1 art in India
4 transports in EUS (like Marsh said: the Allies will be heavily in Europe by turn 3)
2 fighters in Scotland and a DD in 111 (one of those fleets is going untouched)
8 inf 1 art in Paris
a ftr and 3 subs in 98
and my personal favorite: 7 artillery in Amur
@Private:
Took a look at the League board pp 1&2 - bids vary between 12 and 28, averaging 20.5. wittman is offering me 18. Mmm!
I know I’m a broken record, but 28 is just insane to me.
Just off the top of my head:
Ftr in Matla, inf in Alexandria, tank in Egypt, sub in 98, inf in Yunan. So now Sealion is on without taking any fighters off of London and Libya is gone. Italy is effectively out of the game before they’ve even had a turn and UK doesn’t have to worry about the Med
The 1 inf in Yunan isn’t a game changer, but it increases the chance of a bad J1.
Just because I enjoy coming up with bid scenarios here are a few more for 28:
3 new Russian art, 1 in each of the far east territories (really pushing for that Japan attack), 1 sub 1 ftr in the Med
1 BB 111, 1 DD 110
1 BB 106, 1 DD 91
7 art spread across the Russian territories, or a ftr and 6 inf
CV in 101, British subs in 91 and 96
There’s no shortage of fun ideas, but I stand by what I’ve said before: no idea how the Allies lose more than the occasional game with a bid like that.
I’ve never considered doing both, but I really like how it’s laid out here. If successful, Italy has effectively been eliminated from the game before they even get going.
Japan isn’t winning the game, I totally agree, but the post I was responding to (Elk’s #12) was talking what China can do after it’s already kicked Japan out. The answer: not much apart from providing landing zones.
Japan can still turtle up on Japan proper, skirmish in the pacific where practical, and bee line to Egypt to facilitate a European victory. China can’t do anything about that, other than reduce Japan’s income so that it can’t skirmish as well in the Pacific when the bulk of its oomph heads to Africa.
Got it. I’d like to see China be allowed to go into FIC. Would spice things up a bit down there!