Posts made by Narvik

OK, you got some good an valid points, Baron.

What if Subs roll a preemptive surprise strike, and if a hit the casualty sink fast and can not defend.
Then all warships, trannies and aircrafts that survived in that seazone now roll for defense. I believe the usual defense numbers are too high, unless every sub mission is a kamikaze mission, so maybe everybody roll a 1 when defending against attacking subs. The AA gun rolls 1 against planes in the sky, so why not roll 1 against Subs too, they are under water after all. The Destroyer has no special ability when defending against subs. Then surviving Subs can submerge or continue attacking.

Attacking a Sub is another matter. I think only Destroyers should be able to hunt and attack Subs. To keep it historical correct, the Destroyer should attack at 2 and the Sub defend at 1

This is the most simplified system I can think off

Since the cheapest unit always will be fodder, why not just change the cost ?

Destroyer cost 8, A2 D2
Submarin cost 9, A2 D2 and submerge
Tranny cost 10, D1

so, there is a reason the old World at War is never played. When the rules got too specialized and difficult, people don’t play it

@Der:

Really, with tactical bombers now available, they should take on the role that the old bombers had - attacking along with infantry & tanks, etc. The Strategic bombers should only wreck infrastructure and economy and perhaps lower morale.

No, I don’t think a unit should be limited too much. As you know, subs did sink battleships too, even if cargo ships were the main target. And heavy Bombers did carpet bomb soldiers on the ground and warships, even if bombing of infrastructure were the main purpose. I just think, that since we now got all this new units, they could get more special abilities.

Submarines should be stronger in attacking convoys, but for that to happen, only destroyers should be able to hit subs. If not, then no sub will survive the 1 Destroyer + stack of Bombers combo.

And, slightly off topic, I think the new Tactical should cost 10, att 3 and def 4. Special ability, target Tanks and Mechs before other casualties.
The fighter should cost 6, att 1and def 2. Special ability, target other aircrafts in dog-fights before taking land unit casualties.
The St Bomber should cost 12, att 4 and def 1. Special ability, do SBR against ICs

@ShadowHAwk:

D-Day saw a lot of strategic bombers dropping bombs all over the place.
Strategic bombers where used as mobile artilery where tactical bombers where more for close air support.

Perhaps not the main topic of this thread, but I will answer you. Heavy Bombers were not very accurate or effective weapons. They dropped bombs from high altitude, and the majority missed. Against the industry, they were not effective, and killed more cows in the nearby fields, than it ruined factories. Submarines that sank convoys did much more damage to the economy than Heavy Bombers. But in all A&A games it is the opposite, SBR is an option but convoys are not.

On D-day more than 1000 Heavy Bombers targeted the Blockhouses at Omaha beach but missed. Then hundreds of Battleships, Cruisers and Destroyers shelled the Blockhouses, but they missed too. Then 250 US Rangers climbed the cliff and killed the big coastal guns at Point du Hoc. So go figure.

The Heavy Bombers main contribution on D-day were to bomb railroad stations in the cities, to block German movement. They tried to bomb some bridges too, but that failed. Even carpet bombing infantry failed. And the mobile artillery you are talking about, that was Stukas , not B 17

In the current A&A Global game, the units are misused in a gamey way. Subs are used as fodder in naval battles, and this is historical not correct since subs were the most expensive and time consuming ships to build. But even worse, to kill a group of 5 subs, you can send in one destroyer with 10 Bombers, and you only lose your destroyer. Or you can send in one destroyer with 5 Battleships, and they absorb all the hits. Now this are all tactics that an experienced player can use against a beginner just for fun, but it feels wrong.

Among the tons of house rules to fix this issue, I favor to let destroyers be the only units to hit subs. This is almost historical  correct. The game start in 1940, and planes did not sink subs before 1945. It will also get rid of a lot of special rules, like the sneak attack etc. So, if you play on the current Global map, and want to target the convoy zone outside UK, you just send in 2 German subs. Now, if there are a UK fleet there, they cant roll against subs. Only destroyers can. And one destroyer roll one dice, and maybe sink one of the subs. Now if there are 3 UK destroyers there, they roll 3 dice. That is a simple rule, and I cant understand why its not an OOB rule.

But then we got the problem that a convoy zone adjacent to UK is very easy to protect. UK just place a lot of destroyers there, protected by scrambling fighters and a fleet. And this is just like in the real world. German subs almost never sank ships in port. But the Global map don’t have convoy zones out in the ocean, only adjacent to land, where they are easy to protect. So IMHO that is a flaw. Making the A&A Europe 1999 map superior, when it comes to commerce raiding. Â

@eddiem4145:

Another words, US subs coordinating with US capital warships. I always understood subs fought by themselves and never with capital warships.

Yu are correct. Subs never did combined arms operations together with battleships or bombers. Subs did independent operations, but sometimes together with other subs, like the German wolf packs. And in the same way, you never did see Strategic Bombers cooperate with infantry or Tanks. Strategic Bombers were designed to target Industrial Complexes, and Subs were designed to target convoys. But since this is a simple game, the fun factor is more important than historical accuracy.

The A&A Europe 1999 edition was the best game IMHO, since it had convoy centers all over the Atlantic that the German subs could target, and made for a historical correct struggle between German subs and allied destroyers. It also had a good Strategical Bombing Raid system that encouraged to use the Bombers against factories, and not against the historical incorrect ships or tanks. If you try to SBR an IC in the current Global game, you will lose your Bombers. So it is a much safer strategy to protect your Bomber behind a stack of infantry in a land battle, or behind subs in a naval battle. In the Pacific you will typically see a striking force of subs and Bombers, working together. But that never happened in the real war.

Attached is a pic of the convoy centers of A&A Europe 1999 ed, to remember how it should be

@Me1945:

What Russia makes is presented on state emblems of 6 nations. It is not a maple syrup.

They make problems, now how do you present that on a State emblem ?

@ghr2:

I really liked that 2nd map from your first post, how did you get it?

If you are on facebook, just search for Historical Board Gaming, they have posted lots of pics of the new map there, man. Pics of the old map can be fount on BGG.

Now, why do you like the 2nd map ? The eastern part of Turkey is adjacent to both the Med and Caucasus, which opens for gamey exploitations of aircrafts. The Tobruk city circle look silly, and the new map even miss Cyprus. Now, I understand that the new artwork look cool, but the old map was far superior from a gaming point of view.

…and this 9 spots were ?

@CWO:

@Young:

A&A 2nd Edition OOB National Objectives
GERMANY
1. DENMARK STRAIT

Maybe I’m just missing it, but I don’t see any such NO in the OOB rules.  There’s one which says “5 IPCs if Germany controls both Denmark and Norway while Sweden is neither pro-Allies nor Allies-controlled,” but that has nothing to do with the Denmark Strait, which is the strait between Iceland and Greenland (in A&A terms, Sea Zone 122).

Only a few people are aware of this, but the Denmark Strait between Greenland and Iceland was in fact a secret German convoy route to the South American trade marked, so yes it is definitely worth a 5 IPC no

The first pic show how I would like to see Turkey split, and sec pic is the original AA Turkey

The first pic show the old map, where the eastern part of Turkey were not adjacent to the Med, and the sec pic show the new map where a fighter can move from Caucasus into the Med and back again, which is no good from any historical or realistic points of view

Like I told you, HBG is on facebook

@oztea:

Still no map previews then?
Been about 6 months.

Look at facebook, the New map is great

wow, now that was something  8-)

You are off topic again, Kurt, 4 engines remember ?

They should have give the CV an attack factor of 1, just to recognize it as a warship

@corporal:

  I have the Global 1939 from Historical Boardgaming….was wondering if anyone has come up with a '39 setup for Global 1940

Go to House rule forum and look at the AARHE rules files, its a sticky.

Black Elk, I see your point. But this can be solved. When you play A&A Revised or 42 online at GameTableOnline, and you are confused what icon you see, just point your mouse at the icon and text will come up, like (Destroyer) etc…