Posts made by MrMalachiCrunch

Last Jack, I agree, getting the elephants over the alps was more of a feat then getting them across the sea.  However, Carthage didn’t have control of the sea or have much of a navy in the second punic war.  But I do agree with you, alps crossing more impressive.

Perhaps we need to go back to the basics and define WAR and BATTLE and CAMPAIGN.

WAR
1. a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.
2. a state or period of armed hostility or active military operations: The two nations were at war with each other.
3. a contest carried on by force of arms, as in a series of battles or campaigns: the War of 1812.

The two nations were Carthage and Rome.

Those nations primarily were based in different continents with a sea between them.  One nation launches a war on the other and the nations have a sea between them.  I do not count Spain as an integral part of Carthage, it was a colony and on net took more resources from Cartage then it provided Hannibal.

Battle
1.a hostile encounter or engagement between opposing military forces: the battle of Waterloo.
2.participation in such hostile encounters or engagements: wounds received in battle.
3.a fight between two persons or animals: ordering a trial by battle to settle the dispute.

Campaign
1.Military .
a. military operations for a specific objective.
b. Obsolete . the military operations of an army in the field for one season.
2. a systematic course of aggressive activities for some specific purpose: a sales campaign.
3. the competition by rival political candidates and organizations for public office.

The overseas war that Carthage launched on Rome started with a campaign launched from a base/colony in Spain where many recruits were gained and many battles occurred.

See, IL, the problem is you don’t know meaning of basic words.  But again, you were sure Hannibal was born in Turkey so its no wonder big words confuse you.  Please consult a dictionary before engaging in a battle wits with me as you are poorly armed.

I wonder if that was me?  I did get my paypal confirmation.  Yeehaw!  But it seems it is not a registration for the site itself which I have not had time to fully investigate.

We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction. - by Aesop.

BigDog four-legged robot now sports throwing arm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21630212

Witt, it was at +1 and I made it +2, so there!  lol

I’d fight Mike Tyson for lots of money too!  Not that Most Holy is like Tyson, Holy’s voice is rather deep and impressive.

It was already at +1 by the time I put my 2 cents in nickel in!

I just read that! Yeah, biblical……

LOL, now that would make for an interesting alternative history novel!  I suspect the soviets would have gotten a bit more powerful without the soviet/sino split.  The cuban missile crises could have gone hot.  Talk about the law of unintended consequences!

It’s almost like saying the US didn’t have to fight an war overseas because eventually they got bases on the enemies continent.  Almost.  Carthage really had no presence in Spain prior to the end of the first punic war.  So in 237 BC they start the conquest of Iberia.  The second punic war starts in 218 BC.  So 19 years of conquest in Iberia does mean they had some land and some allies, but again, hardly a pillar of the Empire.  It was mostly a piggy bank and a way of reclaiming wealth and power after being spanked by Rome in the first punic war.

I never once stated the attack didn’t come from the direction of Spain.  I said the war was launched by Carthage, primarily a power across the sea from Rome.  I stand by that assertion.

Does IL stand by his assertion that Hannibal was a turk or at least born in Turkey?

Got me on the where rather than wear.  Effects of almost being killed a few years ago and the resulting brain injury.

So IL, back to your assertion Hannibal was a turk?

And bring the Canada Dry

I drink my rye with water.  First drink is on me dick.

I said he was not born in Spain.  It is not correct to imply from that that I didn’t know where he was born.  My degree is in computer science so I know a bit about logic and your logical conclusion is invalid.

So again IL, Hannibal was born in Turkey you say?

IL says:

“New Carthage” as it was known was part of today’s Spain. The logistical support are not “bases”- they are part of the empire, so Rome didn’t really have a sea barrier since Spain was practically next door.

Wikipedia says New Cathage served as a stepping off point for the conquest of spain.  So your argument is that a stepping of point is not a base?  Sure, they are different words.

Well my point was that that stepping off point was not an integral part of what was that empire of Carthage, it did not contribute to its original greatness.

IL says:

Only if you can wear that pathetic wife beater shirt and the 99. cent sunglasses in the white trash Jimmy…

So we have a deal then, I shall where wear the pathetic wife beater shirt and the 99 cent sunglasses and I will take my white trash Jimmy and hopefully tow a trailer and hang out with the gang in Oshawa where I will see you and I will be able to say politely you are a dick to your face and you would be wise to be polite to me in return, it is the Canadian way to be polite after all.

My Masters in History from Stanford says it. It is common knowledge and i don’t do your homework.

From your degree you assert Hannibal was born in Turkey?  The urge to crack a joke at the expense of the US educational system is nearly overwhelming.  I would however truly regret insulting my American family and friends so I shall refrain from picking the low hanging fruit.

You are a dick however and I would love to tell you this to your face.   :wink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartagena,_Spain#Ancient_history

The town was originally named Mastia. Possessing one of the best harbors in the Western Mediterranean, it was re-founded by the Carthaginian general Hasdrubal in 228 BC as Qart Hadasht (“New City”), identically named to Carthage, for the purpose of serving as a stepping-off point for the conquest of Spain.

True, a “stepping-off point” is not the same phase as a base, but it sure is pretty much the same thing in my opinion.  But we can agree to disagree on if it was a base, a stepping off point or a huge part of the empire.

Garg, in your neck of the woods the native treaty issue is more hot.  Like I said before, as you move west the natives were less pacified/diluted/weakened.

On the other hand, the war of 1812 really had very little western component.  I had miss-wrote a previous sentence.  The natives are largely responsible for ‘upper Canada’ being Canadian.

If it wasn’t for the Natives most of Canada would belong to the natives Americans as the war of 1812 was won primarily with the help of native allies.  Their reward was to be screwed over by the British.  60 cents a day is a bargain for that classic betrayal.

The land out West was very thin on Europeans loyal to the monarchy.  Don’t underestimate the fear the US army would come in and crush the natives of the west and take that land for themselves as it was ‘un-claimed’.  In order to secure the land and form what is now Canada, a certain bit of bribery was required.  The alternative was to let the US pacify the natives at which they were getting quite good at.  Do not forget the context of when those early compromises were made.

I said Hannibal was no Spanish, am I not correct in that statement IL?

IL says:

It was ( the 1st and 2nd Punic wars) where Hannibal the General born in Turkey ( not Spain or Carthage) commanded an army dispatched from part of the empire in what was to become Spain in an attack against Rome.

IL, you claim Hannibal the General was born in Turkey?  Can you cite your sources please?

IL, you are correct in that I should have used the word sea rather than ocean.  Point for you.  So, where was Hannibal born again?  Is this where I would say “Get it right?”  Such an unfriendly statement that is……  Glad that was put to rest.  And yes, it was and continues to be fun.

The 19 years was the length of time New Cathage was a possesion of Carthage, hardly an integral part of their empire in my opinion.  Again, I assert Carthage was primarily an African based empire and that an ocean…rather a sea was between Rome and Carthage proper sans their recent conquests in Spain which did not make them a European power.

I read that, you beat me to the punch!  I wonder if some of these folks just like screwing with little animals!

Hannibal spent the 8 years in Spain prior to MARCHING his army into the Italy

Hannibal only took over in 221 BC.  He did spend a number of years at the side of his family/father in pacifying Iberia.  A newly conquered land in my opinion is not an integral part of the empire, moreover it was only a portion of Spain.  I don’t recall ever saying part of spain was not part of the empire, but straw-men are so much more fun and easy to defeat.  I would not consider the Spanish holdings as a major portion of the empire, to the extent it would transform Carthage into a European power rather than an African power.  So I maintain that Cathage was primarily an African power fighting a primarily European power and that those two powers had a SEA between them that would hamper reinforcements and communication.

By the second punic was Carthage was not as strong as it once was, but stronger than I had thought upon further readings.  I also should have used the word sea rather ocean so point taken, Mea Culpa for poor choice of word.  My point which seems to be lost was that in my opinion it took a bit of skill to fight when you have a large waterway that separates you from your center of gravity.

Napoleon did revolutionize manpower.

I read that article too.  I suspect citizens of the west are a bit more free to do things than those in China, like hacking.  I am sure ECHELON is a form of hacking that has benefited the english speaking nations that are the controlling members.  But the primary purpose of ECHELON is not to steal secrets.  I am sure some information does trickle down the benefits friendly nations companies, but again, not the primary purpose as unit 69318.

Interesting stuff to me at least!

Not exactly they type of Shake I was thinking of.  I imagined a well spoken moderate religious guy……

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/02/27/20614336.html

Perhaps there is hope in the world if the phase “Never trust anyone over 30” is adapted by the youth of Islamic countries!

With comments like “Get it right.” it implies to me you just want to be dick.  I think for me this topic is just about done. IL, see you in Oshawa.

Splitting hairs comparing England as a base but not owned versus New Carthage.

Again, my point was that Hannibal was fighting Rome for Carthage and that the empires were primarily across an ocean.  We can politely agree to disagree on what degree Carthage was considered an African Empire.  Iberia was barely part of the Carthaginian empire, certainly not a key portion of the empire as say Italy was to the Roman Empire…western roman empire that is.

This was a fun polite debate IL, I encourage you to keep to that spirit and refrain from less than polite discourse.

I guess the war against Japan wasn’t overseas… because those were part of your territory.

Perhaps England is not overseas from Argentina and never fought a long distance across the ocean war since the Falkland Islands are close to South America and part of the British Empire.

But this debate as to whether or not Carthage is considered overseas from the Roman Empire should perhaps get a thread of its own and not hijack this thread.  We should discuss WHY Hannibal was the Best who Lost!  :wink: