Posts made by mojo

ok gnasape i went to your link,  and to be honest i have no idea where these rules come from and have a hard time using rules outside of the book. but  go down to subs and it states you have a choice to submerge or not, thats my point. it’s your choice.  and air units can hit subs not submerged. it states that under the dd heading.

this is one of my problems with online games.  i use the actual board, and i have the rule book.  where do these other rules come from,  and who wrote  them, and why do we use rules not in the book?  i actually really like these subs rules better than all the other games.  subs cannot be attacked by any unit unless a dd is present,  because they have the CHOICE to submerge or not.  i think it’s pretty simple.  i don’t understand this hang-up with air units.  once a sub is submerged no units can attack it,  but out it the open they can be hit by all units.

ya know guys i keep reading the rules and no where do i see air units cannot attack subs. give me a page #.  i believe this is an assumed rule because air units need a dd to hit subs…  and don’t point out a rule that should be added,  tell me rules that are there.

this debate over subs has gone back 20 years, all the way back to classic.  why can’t we seem to get it straight?  i believe we’er playing it wrong again.  no where in the rules does it say air units cannot attack subs.  it says air units can’t attack submerged subs, and with a dd present subs cannot submerge so they can be attacked.

under the sub heading page 30 it states when a rd. of combat starts and a sub is in combat with only aircraft, it CAN submerge( before aircraft fire).  it states CAN submerge it deosn’t say must submerge.  so i believe it’s the defenders choice to submerge or not, and if not choose subs as hits.  of coarse subs cannot hit air units, but i don’t see why we can’t choose subs as hits against air units.

if i’m wrong please let me know.

as soon as i finish up my current game,  i’ll set up pacific and look for a game.  i still need to get europe.  only played it once,  but i’ll go ahead and get it.

put me on the list big dog.  i’ve only played pacific 4 times,  but i do like it,  and wanna play more.

again to both of you guys,  thank you for your input. we will have to agree to disagree, but i would like a few more people to chime in.

hey luckyday, if you agree with the interpertation of the rules by krieg & a 44, i’ll give in and continue the game. let me know

man the more points you bring up the more i think i’m correct.  in your case things would totally be differnt if i had a sub + 1 tran,  because step 2 subs fire, he would get the sneak attacks so if that sub hits i would pull trany as casuality,  that would leave just my sub against his figs so attack is over.  they don’t all attack at the same time,  it goes in steps.

as for your second piont it doesn’t say anything about subs that have not fired, nowhere,  thats my piont by step 3 all attacking subs have attacked or submerged.

do the attack with your pieces and actually move them and follow the steps 1-6. the’er are no grey areas here.  it’s black & white.
subs fire ,  remove causalites, rest of attacker fires, defender fires, again remove casualites.

so your saying having a dd was to my disadvantage,  as a defender.  but if i had a sub + 1 tran it would be to my advantage.  i guess i just can’t grasp that concept.  i don’t believe you skip steps because defender has a dd.  what says it all to me  is step 3:  attacker fires all remaining units except(subs which have fired or submerged).  nowhere does it say subs which have NOT fired.  so by step 3,  all attacking subs have fired or submerged.  its plain as day to me there.  again 44 thanks for your help on this issue.

a44bigdog i think you have the scenerio wrong.  you are thinking the attacker had the dd as you just stated.
attacker had 1 sub + 4 fig,  defender had 1 sub + 1 dd.

i’m not applying revised to this because in revised figs can shot at subs.

sorry krieg i’m just not convinced.  you know when luckyday started this thread we were looking for the correct way. i just knew we were doing it wrong.  i didn’t have a position on this until we started talking.  now the more we discuss this the more i believe i got it correct.
but i am willing  to compromise on this for the sake of the game.

thanks a44bigdog.  heres the hang up.  step 3.  attacker nows rolls ( EXCEPT SUBS THAT HAVE ALREADY ATTACKED OR SUBMERGED)
it does not say subs that HAVE NOT ATTACKED.  it says subs that have attacked which means they attacked in step 2.  by step 3 there are no subs that did not attacked or submerged. thank you

as for a dd negateing a sub to submerge i can’t find that either,  in revised it does.

i do understand what your saying.  but  maybe we’re interperting the rules differnt.  dd negates “first strike ability”,  not “first strike attack” subs always fire first. it says usually because the attacking sub can submerge.   if you read step 2 to launch a first srtike attack,  after you hit and remove casualities, theres a note about dd’s.   so the steps stay the same.  the dd only comes into play when you remove casualites.
it doesn’t say anything about if a dd is present all attacking units fire at the same time.  it still goes in steps.

again i do believe i have it correct, i even called a A&A buddy of mine, who freaking knows all the rules inside and out to all the games,  and told me i was correct.  i hope to have more input, because luckyday & i just wanna get it correct.

hey krieghund i thank you for your input, i really do , i hope i’m not coming off sounding like an arse.  i’ve read and re-read these rules for a week now, and i do believe i have it correct,  but i wanna make sure. so thank you again.  for 2 rds. now my subs have been attacked by figs,  and because i  have a dd present somehow that hurts me.  so if i had a tran + 1 sub i’d be better off. i just can’t believe thats the case.  i just think your hung up on the frist strike ability. the steps stay the same.

man i totally disagree.  the word usually attack is there because subs can submerge.  so step 2 states subs may make a first strike or submerge.  those are your choices. attacking subs do 1 or the other.  you don’t get an advantage by not bringing a dd. figs cannot attack subs without a dd.  so because the defender has a dd your telling me now figs can attack.  i believe you have it wrong.  it goes in steps thats it.  no steps are skipped.  the dd just allows for defense of that units.

i think we need another person to chime in.

kreighund  you just agreed with me.  step 2 atacking subs fire or submerge.  step 3 attacker now fires except subs that have attacked or submerged.  exactly i agree.  step 3 you roll for all other units except your subs which either attacked or submerged in step 2.  step 3 does not say subs that have NOT attacked or submerged.  the word NOT is not there.  it states subs that have attacked or submerged which what step 2 is.

i have to disagree. i think the steps remain the same.  just as it states.  the only difference is when you remove sub hits.  if a dd is present they go to the casuality area for a defense shot.  without the dd they are removed from the game.

bob dylan  baby

i don’t know nirvana at all, and only know a little pearl jam,  but eddie vedder did the sound track for “into the wild” which was excellant.
good movie, better book.  alexander supertramp rocked.

ok the dust is off,  the board is set,  and i’m thinking of ideas for wacking.  come on now don’t be skeered

long time a&a player.  i’ve only played pacific a couple times,  but i’m ready to pull my board out, wipe off the dust, and rock-n-roll.  any gamers?

how many boards are there in this aa50 game?  do they sell the actual board?  i’ll move on to aa50, but i can’t give up my board man.  :mrgreen:

anyone up for a game of revised?