Posts made by mikecool70

@Hobbes:

It is impossible for the UK fighters to reach Moscow by turn 4 since the fighters can’t reach any of Russia’s territories while on the UK. They can reach only Caucasus through Gibraltar and Egypt on UK4. Unless the UK gives up the Taranto attack and send the fighter from Egypt and the tac from the carrier.

Actually, if UK builds an airbase in Scotland on turn 1, then they can send all of their airforce to Russia by turn 4, even the one in Alexandria.  Alternatively, they can send all planes to the Med/Gibraltar on turn 1, land on Egypt or Trans-Jordan on turn 2 (perhaps after taking some casualties from destroying the Italian navy, then move to East Persia on turn 3, then Russia on turn 4.  I’m not saying either of these options is a good idea; just saying that it’s possible.

@Hobbes:

@calvinhobbesliker:

If GERMANY is spending most of its income on 10 tanks, what is delaying the Anglo-American landings?

It’s actually all of its income since 10 tanks cost 60 IPCs. Ideally that would be 10 tanks on G2 plus 10 more on G3 (if possible, depends on money saved from the G2 buy). All of those can reach Moscow on G5. The G4 buy really depends on what the UK has been up to and the US won’t be able to attack until US4.

Can Germany still take Russia on turn 5 if the entire UK airforce lands on it on turn 4?

@Pelanderfunk:

The Soviets get a 5 IPC bonus for being at war. In all of the global games I’ve played so far, the Soviet player has simply “declared war” on Japan on R1, regardless of whether or not they had plans to attack.

Is there any reason that the Soviets wouldn’t declare war on Japan as soon as they can? Is there any reason that being “at war” is a requirement of this NO if the Soviets can always be at war?

This has been addressed in the FAQ thread.  The Soviets have to be at war with either Germany or Italy in order to receive the 5 IPC bonus.  Of course, it would have been nice for the rulebook to say this directly.

@Bodeacious:

I would just capture Gibraltar I1 and then the UK could not touch me.

My strategy prevents Italy from taking Gibraltar since the entire UK navy is in the Med next to Gibraltar.

It’s been well established in other threads that Germany would have to be extremely lucky to take UK on G2.  Assuming that Germany loses one or two planes on G1 while taking out the UK navy and builds an aircraft carrier and two transports, I think it is best for UK to preserve the remainder of its fleet and keep Italy from expanding… even if it means allowing UK to fall. 
On UK 1, build all infantry to force Germany to build mostly transports on Germany 2 (if they intend on pursuing a Sealion strategy) and then move all of the fleet that you can to SZ 92 (next to Gibraltar).  Yes, I know that not blocking the sea zones around UK will allow Germany to get two bombardments, but that is only in the first round and it will still take luck for Germany to take UK on G2.

Moving all your fleet in the Med creates a real dilemma for Italy.  Their planes can’t reach your fleet and therefore they will lose most of the time if they send their entire navy against yours due to the slightly lower attack value versus your defense value (they would also have only 5 hits versus your 6 or 7, depending on how many of your destroyers survived).  If they attack the French fleet with their navy then you can destroy their navy on UK 2.  If they try to block you with a destroyer or cruiser then the French navy has a good chance of taking that out, allowing the UK navy to finish off the Italian navy on UK 2.  They could try to block you with a destroyer AND try to take out the French navy with their planes, but then they risk losing planes and might still not destroy the French navy.  Italy can’t leave their transports unprotected because UK’s planes can reach anywhere in the Med, unless Italy takes Crete… but wouldn’t Italy rather be putting those units in Africa to put more pressure on Egypt?

Then on UK 2, since UK is going to fall anyway due to all those German transports and tanks, abandon UK by moving all your fighters to Gibraltar.  Also, either build destroyers off of Canada or a transport and two bombers in South  Africa, depending on where you think you need it the most.  Your cruiser off of Brazil will join up with the Med fleet on turn 2 and your destroyer is ready to enter through the Suez canal, so on UK 3 the Italian navy is dead, Italy will never get any of its national objectives, and the surviving UK surface fleet will start convoy raiding German and Italian IPCs in the Med.

The USA can bring in just enough subs by the end of turn 5 to make sure that every convoy territory is disrupted by Italy’s turn 6, putting Italy’s income down almost to zero (perhaps 1 economy for Bulgaria).

Now obviously the Soviets will be having a hard time against Germany since Germany will need less infantry and tanks to take out UK and may use some of those loaded transports to attack the Soviets.  But without that Cairo victory city, Germany has to take out all three of the Soviet victory cities while keeping the ones the Axis already have.

I don’t think the Germans can take out UK AND Novgorad on turn 3; most likely it will be turn 4 when Novgorad falls.  After that, Russia is three turns away;  but surely a competent Soviet player would not lose both of its remaining victory cities on turn 7.  I don’t know the absolute earliest it could be taken against competent Allied players but it seems like turn 10 at the absolute minimum (and I think I’m being generous).  This would require Germany sending almost everything it can spare against the Soviets WHILE trying to defend UK, France, and Southern Italy.  I don’t see how any competent USA player can’t take back and hold at least ONE of those territories by the time that last Soviet victory city is taken, especially with Italy earning almost zero starting on turn 6.

Of course, I understand that Germany can help out Italy by building more navy and/or fighters to help clear the Med of UK naval units, but then that only helps keep the Soviets in play for longer, giving the USA more time to liberate a victory city.

@larrymarx:

Well, I just finished a game where I employed my submarine strategy and it failed miserably. I violated my own rule of not using it if America puts 100% into the Atlantic from turn 1. I arrogantly believed I could hold them off because they began producing straight ground units and transports to follow up their initial fleet. My problem was that he flew four bombers against my surface navy, crushing it and eliminating any chance of blocking him with my destroyers. It swung the naval standoff in his favor. Meanwhile, the Luftwaffe continued to dwindle. He was able to make a landing with 22 land units in France after liberating the UK. I might have been able to salvage the naval war, but then I wouldn’t have been doing anything against his invading force. I ended up hurling 19 submarines and a bomber against the US navy in a last ditch effort. I rolled down, and the game was over.

However, I realized something. If the Italians had had an air force, or if the Japanese had flown a bunch of planes to Europe, I could have salvaged the game. Because my subs could only damage naval units, he ended up damaging all five of his carriers and landing his planes in France. His navy was reduced to only about 20 pips defending 11 transports. If the Italians or Japs had had a followup attack, they could have finished the job for the Germans. I still would have had to deal with the French and the American liberators, but at least their reinforcements would have been stalled.

One thing I did well in this game, however, was eliminate the Russian threat with minimal use of force. I used the flanking maneuver discussed elsewhere on these forums, landing north of Moscow. I took Leningrad with 2 units (it was defended by 1 infantry) and put 20 units in Nenetsia. Russia shrank like a frightened turtle. A combined German and Italian offensive shortly cleared the eastern front of all remaining Russians, killing most of their offensive units. Italy and Germany then had respectable economies, especially since Italy had captured all of Africa. The game rested entirely in the hands of the Americans, whose punches were unfortunately just too strong to block.

With better strategic planning, I might have been able to pull off a naval Germany this game. I am considering alternatives to the submarines, such as destroyers and loaded carriers. It could be that this strategy may never work against a pure KGF strategy, but I’m still keeping the possibility open.

A final thought that ties this post back into the forum’s topic: if I had kept my subs in the Baltic, they would have been a fairly effective deterrent to building naval units out of a Norway factory, assuming I could also hold Denmark. It would take a lot of American IPCs to put something in the water that could stand up to 19 submarines. Thoughts?

Do you think building all subs would have worked better had you not gotten within range of those USA bombers?  If you take out London and Scotland, then your fleet is safe from bombers in SZ 109.  I suppose the USA could then try to lure you out by sending some of its fleet out towards you but then you should respond by only sending enough to have slightly better odds.  Of course, Italy and Japan have to be doing their part too to harass the USA.

@larrymarx:

Has anyone considered a primarily naval Germany?

The idea struck me when I was considering what to do once Germany takes London. In a game I played, I attempted to hold it with land units. I turtled up and it ended up costing me. Russia was able to take my border territories and gain their +6 bonuses, getting +26 for three territories on one turn. Even with huge stacks of infantry, the game was a slow defeat for the axis.

I began to reconsider my turn 4 options. What if instead of buying tons of infantry, I had used UK’s cash to build about 11 submarines and 2 destroyers? Navy is capable of defending multiple territories at once, so I would have been able to pull all remaining land (including turn three purchases) to the Russian front, ideally taking Leningrad for the IPC bonus and to eliminate the Russian national objective. In the Atlantic, the Americans would have to have a sizable navy to hold off my new fleet. The idea is that you send out destroyers as blockers so they can never attack your submarines, then counterattack whatever they send at the destroyers with an appropriate number of subs and air units. You keep building 1 or 2 destroyers per turn, and the rest submarines. Because the Americans need to invest some money in transports and ground units, and because subs provide the best deal on offense for your money, the naval race will be even or at least you’ll be able to hold them off for quite a few turns.

Meanwhile, the Russians are pounding away at you, and this is the biggest problem with this strategy. You only have a few turns of few to no land purchases before they take Berlin. For this reason, the strategy can only work with concerted aid from Japan and Italy. Italy needs to climb quickly in production and start pumping infantry, and Japan needs to climb in production and start hurling tanks at Moscow.

If the Americans put 100% of their money into the Atlantic from turn 1 and pull their Pacific units as well, I doubt this strategy should be attempted, but depending on the setup on turn 4 after a Sealion, I think this strategy should at least be on the table.

I think this is an excellent post Sealion strategy.   I think building all subs on turn 3 (assuming you are very sure that you will take London on turn 3) is the best move that Germany can make.  On turn 4, you can move all those subs, along with your surface fleet, to the seazone just west of UK and build 10 more subs in that same seazone.  This plan will work best if Japan waits till turn 3 to go to war since it severely limits how much navy USA can build by turn 3.  And the best thing is that the USA might be building some transports and land units on turns 1 and 2, limiting their navy even more.

Edit: I forgot that the major factory turns into a minor factory after Germany takes it.  Building all subs and moving them west might only work if Italy combines it fleet with Germany’s.

@bugoo:

@WILD:

@bugoo:

Don’t forget the 1 inf, 1 arm, 1 fig from alexandria that can get up there.   8-)

That’s something I don’t think I’ve heard before. They have the movement points to get to England in two turns. Could they (tpt w/ground troops) get through the Med though? They would have to be in sz 92 end of UK1. Sz 92 is not exactly safe from the axis.

Is is with a cruiser block in SZ 94.  Only way for the germans to hit it would be to land planes in africa on G2, out of range for G3 sea lion.

Also, if the transport by the UK survives, it can join up with the transport from Egypt and load up two French infantry from North Africa which then unload on UK on French turn 2.

@technobabble66:

Just out of interest, has anyone playing Japan tried to take Panama?

I kinda thought among several strategic options for Japan (aside from possibly a few better ones  :-)) that japan could focus its attention on hitting Hawaii J1, then taking Panama J2; or maybe J3 after destroying the US Pacific fleet first.
Obviously Japan would still employ a strategy to strike China and maybe russia at the same time to maintain other lines of pressure, but the idea with the Panama strategy is that it attains a base for Japan that enables the fully massed Japanese fleet to strike either the US East or West coast. This would probably be backed up by landing Bombers and fighters into panama asap. Without a navy the US should be rendered impotent for at least a few rounds…
To be extra tricky, the Japanese fleet could also cross the pond to hit the english fleet and strike into the heart of the tyrannical european dogs!!
Possibly would want to coordinate it with German airstrikes on the UK fleet in G1 or G2.

Thoughts??

I’m thinking that having either Germany or Italy take out West Indies and then building an airbase so the Japanese airforce can land there and scramble would be a better idea.  Then let the convoy raiding begin.

@Imperious:

If Germany does not have a large enough fleet to shuck to Norway or does not have its own factory in either Sweden or Finland, and if USA takes Norway and builds a Major factory…. what can Germany do?

Forget France or Spain. Major USA factory is Norway is game over for Germany.

Right?

It all depends on how close the Axis are to gaining that last victory city needed to win the game.  What turn can USA reasonably take and hold Norway?

@calvinhobbesliker:

What do you think?

If everyone says that Germany can both take out UK and all three of Russia’s victory cities, then I have no reason to doubt that.  What I don’t understand is how they can do all this while Italy doesn’t lose both the Egypt and South Italy victory cities, keeping them one victory city short of victory.  Combine that with all the convoy raiding that USA should be doing by this time, then the Axis now have an income disadvantage that they can’t recover from.

I think the two key questions that need to be answered is this:  1) What turn does the third Soviet victory city usually fall when Germany does the Sealion, ASSUMING expert play on the part of the Allies?; 2)  Can the USA take out both South Italy and Egypt by the same turn?

@calvinhobbesliker:

It’s not that hard to roll dice. For example, to roll 2 infantry, a tank, and a bomber, you’d type : aaa 2@1 1@3 1@4 : without the spaces

Rolls: 2@1 1@3 1@4; Total Hits: 32@1: (4, 1)1@3: (1)1@4: (1)
This also tells you how many hits you got

Perhaps if my computer and board were in the same room I’d be willing to do it, but since they aren’t I would have to write all the rounds down on paper and THEN type it out on the computer.  I’ll probably just wait till my friends can get together to play it in person.  Unless there is someone out there willing to play an email game without all the rounds of combat being shown?

@reloader-1:

I had a brainwave looking at the pieces that come with the new version of Risk  - their “city” pieces are perfect as Major Industrial Complexes!

The cost is $2.50 for 15 cities (you get a set of blue arrows as well, they are in the same bag):

http://www.hasbro.com/customer-service/orderform.cfm?sku=45086

Or for those of us too cheap to buy Risk pieces, you can always just use monopoly houses and hotels for minor and major complexes.

@calvinhobbesliker:

Usually, the order of losses is obvious(inf, art/mech, tanks, ftr). If it’s not, ask the defender(and do it before you roll their defense).

The problem with rolling the dice in real life is that each of us could lie about the results.

Yeah, I can understand the possibility of someone lying.  But it would be much faster just to email the other player the final results of all the battles so they can adjust their board accordingly.  If it’s not obvious what casualties to take for a specific battle, then break that combat down round by round.  I myself and not worried about someone lying.  If they want to win that badly, then they can just tell me upfront that they might lie about the dice rolls and I’ll just concede the game to them at that point. ;)

@calvinhobbesliker:

@mikecool70:

@calvinhobbesliker:

Interesing. Why don’t we play a forum europe 40 game to test it?

I might be up to it.  But I’ve never played an email game before.  What do I need to do?

You basically type out your moves and roll dice with a certain algorithm. You can download ABattlemap from Functioneta or just use your actual game board

Yeah, I own the game so I think I would prefer just setting up the game and rolling the dice myself.  But how do we handle choosing casualties for the defender?  Do we email EACH round of combat?  That would be a bit tedious since my computer is in a different room than where I can set up the game.  But it’s still doable I suppose.  I am off until Wednesday.

@calvinhobbesliker:

Interesing. Why don’t we play a forum europe 40 game to test it?

I might be up to it.  But I’ve never played an email game before.  What do I need to do?

@calvinhobbesliker:

@mikecool70:

I think it would really help out Germany a lot to let Italy take Normandy/Burgundy on turn 1 with 1 tank and 2 fighters (after Germany takes France).  Also take out Southern France with Italy and don’t spend any of your money.  Then on turn 2, build 3 transports next to UK and move your Southern France forces to Normandy/Burgundy.  You now have 6 land units and up to 2 fighters to suicide against UK on turn 3 and and soften UK up for a German turn 4 invasion.  Or, if Germany took UK on turn 3, then you can now help reinforce it with 6 units.  Of course, there would be the occasional game where you lose your tank and two fighters to that one infantry on turn 1, but thankfully such disasters would be rare.  Also, this may slow you down in Africa since you aren’t using either of your fighters down there.  But I think it would be interesting to try it out.  Thoughts?

Wait, does Italy build the 3 Transports next to the UK?

Yes.  Of course, they would have to be protected with a German aircraft carrier build on turn 1.

I think it would really help out Germany a lot to let Italy take Normandy/Burgundy on turn 1 with 1 tank and 2 fighters (after Germany takes France).  Also take out Southern France with Italy and don’t spend any of your money.  Then on turn 2, build 3 transports next to UK and move your Southern France forces to Normandy/Burgundy.  You now have 6 land units and up to 2 fighters to suicide against UK on turn 3 and and soften UK up for a German turn 4 invasion.  Or, if Germany took UK on turn 3, then you can now help reinforce it with 6 units.  Of course, there would be the occasional game where you lose your tank and two fighters to that one infantry on turn 1, but thankfully such disasters would be rare.  Also, this may slow you down in Africa since you aren’t using either of your fighters down there.  But I think it would be interesting to try it out.  Thoughts?

@robbie358:

So here’s my after-action report for the game we finished tonight.  I was Germany and Italy vs. 3 allied players in Russia/France, UK, and USA.  I did my typical G1 craziness and beat down France and Yugoslavia.  Much to my surprise, the UK player did not build anything actually in the UK, let alone bring his fleet out to stop an invasion.  Italy got their fleet trashed, then managed to regroup and take Greece and eventually (on I2) Egypt.  G2 I built 7 transports and wiped his navy off the map with my air, G3 I invaded England and took it.  It was turn 4 before I ever devoted resources to Russia.  Meanwhile, Italy took THE ENTIRE MED and by turn 7 was raking in 34 bucks a turn… enough for a whole bunch of fighters and infantry.

Turn 4 I had a decision… built Navy to contest the USA or plow into the now very-formidable Russian front, I chose the latter (could have been a mistake).  With my 92 bucks on turn 4 I bought a whole lotta tanks and I did the minor in Yugoslavia-thing to get troops to Africa (like I needed it, should’ve just sent my navy down from England into the Med) and built up for the Russian campaign.  I ended up going north and hitting Leningrad with 17 tanks, 24 mechs, 10 artillery, and 4 inf.  It was at this point we ended the game.  The USA had built up his fleet enough to go to Gibraltar and kill the Italian fleet, and was sitting there with a sizable force.  There was 10 German infantry in France ready to hit any landing zone in Europe, 12 infantry and 2 fighters defending London, there were 10 infantry and 4 fighters and 3 tac bombers in Southern Italy ready to repel an invasion, Italy owned Iraq, Persia, and India, and I was two turns away from Moscow with no sense of urgency to attack.

Final IPC count was Germany: 77  Russia: 23  Italy: 34(was going down because of allied ships in the Med now)  USA: 68.

We ended up rolling the dice for Moscow, assuming a 2 turn Soviet build of just infantry (10 a turn for 20 total, seemed a bit high) and a build of 6 tanks for two turns in Leningrad.  He ended up defending with 48(!) 2s.  We came out of it he had 4 art, 4 tanks, and 2 fighters left to my 3 tanks and bomber.  My point was that I didn’t have to attack him right there as I was not sufficiently threatened by the US fleet.

Who do you guys think would have won?  I call it at tie at best, but opinion was against me, they all thought they were going to win by virtue of an Italy crush.  I though that I would have taken Russia eventually.  Did the Sea Lion build on turn 2 kill my chances of taking Moscow?  Could I have been there 2 turns earlier with the same force minus the 20 Russian infantry?  Please let me know.

It’s hard to say who would have won since you didn’t tell us exactly what the USA had sitting off of Gibraltar.  If I had to guess, I would say the Allies would have won.  They could easily take out Egypt, denying you two national objectives and then convoy raid the seazone next to Italy while using their transports to quickly capture Africa.  I’m also assuming they had fighters on aircraft carriers.  They could easily enough move their entire fleet to the eastern med and then land fighters in Russia to help the Soviet Union last longer while Italy’s economy eventually got down to zero.  Plus, with them dominating the Atlantic, there are just too many places they can attack with their transports.  You don’t mention what you had defending Norway; remember, if Germany loses Norway then it loses out on two national objectives.

@strategic:

I like the strategy but what are the logistics?

Try this and see how it goes:

G1:  Build five subs.  Use two subs to take out  the British destroyer by Canada.  Use three subs to take out the destroyer by the UK.  Ignore the battleship and cruiser by Scotland.  Use your airforce to take out the rest of the British fleet that you can reach.  The point is to sacrifice your airforce to keep your navy alive.  You may even use your bomber with the three subs and take it as a hit if the destroyer hits you back.  Then noncombat your battleship and cruiser into SZ 109 with your three subs.  Place your new subs in SZ 112.  This gives you 10 subs (if both of them by Canada survived), 1 battleship and 1 cruiser.  The UK can most likely destroy any one  of your fleets but there is no way they can destroy the other two.  SZ 109 is more important to them since they got to take out that fleet in order to prevent you from convoy raiding 8 IPCs.  The side benefit of them taking out your fleet in SZ 109 is that the Italian navy will not be destroyed and they can then quickly secure the med and earn their national objective.  If UK attacks the Italians anyway then no problem since you now are convoy raiding them for 11 IPCs (assuming that both of your subs off Canada survived).

J1:  Do not make any attacks that would get the USA involved in the war.  Since the USA gets to declare war on you at the end of turn 3 and get their income bonus on that turn, you will be attacking the UK/ANZAC/USA on turn 3.  Of course, you can still attack the Soviets with your infantry and massive airforce.  Just make sure that airforce is in position by turn 3 to take out the DEI, Malaya, Hong Kong, the Phillipines and the British fleet (if they are still in the area) on turn 3.

I1:  Either secure the med on turn 1 if your fleet survived or start rebuilding if it didn’t.  You may have to save your money for one turn in order to build more naval units on turn 2.  Also, take out as many friendly neutrals that you can as well as Southern France and Greece.  Once all enemy destroyers are gone then you can build subs without fear of being attacked.

G2:  Build 10 subs.  By the end of turn 3, you want to have around 25 subs.

Remember, you goal isn’t so much to take out territories right away but to deny UK /ANZAC/USA IPCs by convoy raiding them.  After the first 4 or 5 turns, you have to spend some money buying infantry to protect yourself from the Soviets.

I haven’t tried this, but it seems like it would be possible for Germany to take out the West Indies on turn 3 while Japan takes out Brazil, also on turn 3.  All three of the Axis would have to coordinate this to pull it off.  Then, on turn 4, Germany builds an airbase while some of the Japanese airforce lands on West Indies, allowing them to scramble if the USA attacks back.  Perhaps Japan should also build a minor IC on Brazil to help dominate the Atlantic