Posts made by miamiumike

Oztea,

Yeah - sorry about that.

China is, BTW, 4 territories - to get back on topic….  :-D

MM

Gargantua,

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some of these points. Calculating NOs can, of course, work - but hasn’t been added for the reasons BB stated in his post.

I think, though, that running a tournament where the rules of each game can be different only presents problems. In fact, I have seen some issues with arguments over rules that ARE posted and consistent - let alone things that may change from game to game. I get your point though - I just think it opens a tournament director to conflict.

Every year there is discussion on what changes need to be made to the tournaments and every year most of the people who played in the previous year are satisfied with the format and rules. Technology will probably never be introduced again - for the reasons BB indicated. NOs, however, are always on the table and, I suspect, we will ask those players that do come their opinion on it this year. I think, however, you would find that AA50 is still a lot of fun without NOs - different - but not bad.

Clyde85 - I will apologize for making the generalization that all online players are just that - just online players. That was narrowminded. But understand that we try to bring all players into the tournaments - including the casual or semi-casual (they are not idiots - we all started as a newb at some point). The exception was the old Masters tournament at GenCon which hopefully will come back.

To the point made by Scarapis - we have NOT changed the rules at all. Tech and NOs are OPTIONAL rules - by NOT using them, we have changed nothing. Larry Harris himself has been involved with many of these discussions over the years - and for the Revised/1942 game, he came up with the whole VC bouns point system to provide for a timed, tournament game. If I may speak for Greg, he’d be a lot more open to tournament format change ideas from people if they were not so insulting about it. Telling him that he and his tournament are ‘stupid’ for not using optional rules is not a good way to begin a conversation.

If enough people presented logical arguments for change - including saying that they would be much more inclined to actually come to the events and play - believe me, Greg will look at that. He wants nothing more than to grow the tournaments and get as many people there as possible - of all skill levels. To suggest that he is somehow driven by WotC or has some other reason for what he does (it’s not like he makes a living off this) is kinda silly.

MM

Shiloh,

Welcome to the conversation - but here is the key issue with your otherwise interesting suggestion…

You CANNOT discount the time factor. The closest you can come is to agree before the game begins to play a certain number of rounds (typically 5 for 1942 and 6 for anniversary - though it can vary a bit depending on the players).

Other issues are a) the use (or non-use) of a simulator - not allowed in FTF play b) the whole 'you get no break for 4-6 hours deal with FTF tournament c) different victory conditions

I actually think your idea is kinda neat - but - I just don’t see how you get past the time constraints to make things ‘equal’ between FTF and online. Suggestions?

MM

Gargantua,

I was not the one to start with the personal insults - you were when I was just posting some inforamtion about GenCon and you started ranting about how it wasn’t a real tournament, etc.

That being said - you STILL miss the entire point of my post. What works for online play (and online tournaments) in some cases, will NOT work for FTF play (and FTF tournaments). The reverse is also true. That has been my point from the beginning. However, you (and other online players) would rather just run down what we do at the Cons - which is certainly your right, but is hardly productive conversation. We sure do want as many players as possible - but, as I have pointed out Tech and NOs are OPTIONAL rules in AA50 - we are not making this up.

I play a fair amount online myself (with the NOs) and enjoy it very much - it fits a niche to allow me to play when FTF is not practical - and it does so very well. I just don’t see why online players seem to look down their noses to people who actually still play the game FTF in a tournament setting. I certianly have never had that reaction myself.

In the end - let us call a truce here - it is a small world and I would rather we meet on the field of battle in some way, shape or form than exchanging nasty-o-grams on a forum.  :-)

Regards
MM

The 27th is still the target date, yes.

As for this being a reprint of AA50 - well, I could easily see why someone might think that. It is not quite AA50, but it is pretty close really. Also - the 1942 2nd Edition will be the mainstay game in the line going forward.

One thing not mentioned yet is that there are new chips in the game as well - they are pretty cool - have A&A printed on them - and there are three colors - white (1), green (3) and red (5). IIRC the initial reaction was that there were not quite enough of them - not too bad - but more is always better. However - we also had the first ‘dangit, I forgot the green was THREE and not ONE unit’ error early on. In otherwords, while I see where they are going with it, for those of us who have played a LOT of A&A over the years with two chip colors - it will be an adjustment….I almost do not want to use them to be honest…

Oh - and armor cost 6 in this game - not sure if that was mentioned.

MM

To answer the questions about how I ‘know’ this is on the game - I am fortunate enough to know Greg Smorey - the guy who runs the A&A events at Origins and GenCon. In fact, at GenCon, I am one of his ‘helpers’. So - he has a copy of the game so that we can get working on setting up the rules and how the tournament will be run.

Also we have seen the new 1941 game - I personally will be running all the A&A for Beginners events at GenCon - and this is the game we will use.

You can trust what I have posted is accurate to the extent that my memory did not fail me… :-D

MM

Gargantua,

Huh, that is so weird. I guess all the hours that Greg and I and our other GM Kelly put into running these events, developing relationships with the players and listening to their ideas and changing things when there is a strong demand AND the large number of cool prizes and A&A gear that are given out was ALL IN MY FRIGGIN HEAD.

Perhaps you should get out from behind your computer and organize an event or two. You may be surprised to find that what works in the online world does not work as well in the real world (remembering of course that A&A is a BOARD game - which was designed to be played on a board and in a FTF environment).

THE POINT IS: People who go to tournaments, expect to play by the latest and understood rules. � They don’t expect to be subjected to arbitrary conditions, and ill-developed course of play, by tournament administrators.

That line is priceless and proves you don’t have the first clue what you are talking about. The people who GO to these tournamants (rather than sit behind a computer and criticize them) have helped develop the tournament AND the rules that are in use today. Larry, by the way, also was involved in the design and setup of these rules - his input was very valuable. But, I suppose the designer of the game really doesn’t have a leg to stand on here, right?

In closing, for someone who claims to know ALL the rules and that they are the ‘understood’ and the only rules out there - it might interest you to know, that BOTH Technology and National Objectives are OPTIONAL RULES in the rulebook. Huh, go figure.

MM

Gargantua - while I am sure you find your comments pithy, you miss the point.

Play moves slow enough as it is - a typical anniversary game will get, at best, 6 rounds in (sometimes only 5). So - while a) figuring out during a turn how to get an NO and then b) confirming that one side did, in fact, get an NO may not add much time per turn, it does add up.

Also remember, the tournaments are designed to be open to both people who play the game a ton, and those who maybe do not play as often. Therefore, a simplifying assumption was made in this case.

Lastly, the NOs could also disrupt the balance of the game AS PLAYED in the tournament format (and the tournament victory conditions). This would require play testing and commentary.

So - the first year the anniversary was played, since it WAS new and we wanted to get as many people involved, like I said - we dropped it. Now, after several years, we DO revisit it every year to see if we should add it, and there is not a compelling reason to do so other than to just ‘change’ things.

MM

I do not have the board in front of me, so, I do not have all the changes, but here are ones I do know:

a) algeria and libya were 2 territories - now are 3 - add in morrocco - all worth 1 IPC
b) china has been divided into 4 territories (each worth 1 IPC)
c) what was s. europe now has s. europe and I think Italy separate - there is an IC in Italy, but the IPC value is only 3
d) the overall IPC count at the start is almost exactly the same - I think Germany starts with 41 (not 40) and UK starts with 31 (not 30)
e) australia is now two territories (each worth 1 IPC)
f) norway is now split into finland and norway
g) there seems to be just a bit more ‘space’ between germany (berlin) and russia (moscow)
h) africa is just a bit different - including egypt being by itself with I think sudan below it (but sudan is worth nothing)
i) there is now a burma territory
j) western europe is now broken into two pieces - like global

That is all I can remember ATM…

MM

There are a fair number of map changes in the game - it really is a new game in many ways. New sea zones - sea zones that you used to know that have been changed in layout. A good number of new land territories as well.

As mentioned on a different thread, I think A&A fans will really like this new version and I cannot wait to get another crack (or two or three) at the game.

MM

Each country has their own AAA piece - it is not a cardboard chit. The ICs, however, ARE cardboard chits - but we just used existing IC pieces.

IIRC, each country has a slightly different look for their AAA piece - and, yes the other pieces in some cases ARE different - most notably the artillery pieces.

MM

The AA50 tournament will continue to be run the same way it has the last few years - no tech, no NOs. I believe the interceptor rule is in play, however.

We used tech the first year and found that it really was too random and too powerful a thing. Part of that is due to the fact that the tournament games are limited in time (and therefore in rounds). Same reason on the NOs - we wanted people to play asa much as possible, rather than spending additional time trying to figure out what NOs they had or how to get them.

The biddig system works well to allow people to decide who they want and what advantage they want to give.

I encourage everyone to play in whatever tournament they want - the more people we get, the better - don’t worry if your level of play is not as high as others - you’d be surprised - plus, even in a loss, you will learn something from it.

MM

The map is indeed bigger - I think a good size, in fact. There is still along the top of the map a place to track IPCs which I think could have been done without.

OOB - no tech, no NOs.

MM

Yes - from E. US, ships can make it to Morocco. Note that it is not Algeria - Morocco. There are now three German North Africa territories - Morocco, then Algeria, then Libya.

A few other things - fighters cannot make it from UK to Moscow in one turn. The US has added a destroyer in Hawaii - making that attack by Japan more of a risk. The UK has a decent attack it can make on the Japan carrier, 2 fighters and battleship lurking between India and Australia (speaking of that, Aus. is now two territories).

Lots of little things all add up to a new game….

MM

Had a chance to play the game with Greg Smorey (who runs the A&A tournaments). The new AAA piece, I think, it pretty much what an AA gun is in Global after the Alpha workup.

It is used as an AA gun to shoot at planes attacking the territory it is in. It gets up to 3 shots per gun (you can have multiple in a territory), it has no other attack or defense value - but it can be taken as a casualty. Interestingly, it costs 5 IPC. Oh - it also cannot be moved in combat, unless it is already on a transport.

One other thing brought over from Global is that industrial complexes also have built in AA guns when defending against bombers conducting SBR.

After one play, we found a number of items that both helped and hurt both sides in the game. For example, the Axis seem to start off with a TON of units (Germany has 6 fighters and a bomber to start). OTOH, armor costs 6 IPC - which probably most impacts Germany.

Japan starts with a destroyer off the coast of Kwangtung - no longer is that transport undefended. From Eastern US, you cannot get a fighter to UK, nor can you even get a transport there as well. UK has no sea zones where they can drop a fleet where it CANNOT be hit by German navy in Baltic Sea. US starts with 2 X the number of units in China overall (but, Japan has more units to hit them with).

Our game ended with a German conquest of Moscow - the product of a terrible first round for Russia which never recovered. Overall, a great experience - with the new set-up, rules and a map with enough changes to make it new as well.

If you like A&A, you will really enjoy this iteration of it. It is a step down from Anniversary - but not by much IMHO. Yes, there is no Italy in the game (or China), but that is not really something you miss. Cannot wait to crank out some more games and I look forward to helping Greg run the tournament at GenCon - should prove interesting.

MM

If the rules came out the same (I haven’t read through everything yet), just because one side invades a true neutral, it doesn’t mean all of the sudden ALL the other neutrals activate against you.

• They all become pro-other side
• They still need to be activated by having a land unit go into EACH zone
• The other side collects NO money until they activate a territory

Originally, I thought it insane too to invade true neutrals - but, it’s not as bad as originally thought - especially if Germany can get the big three with units BEFORE they have to deal with the Soviets.

IMHO

MM

Count me in!

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