Posts made by miamibeach

I agree with BlueIguana on most of what he wrote.

Even the surface combat fleet was an economic raiding tool, rather than any assistance for Sea Lion.

Back in the 70’s the British war college or something like that wargamed it out.  In the wargame, the Germans were able to make the landings, but the Royal Navy was able to eventually cut off the landings, which isolated the Germans, game over.  I dont think you can say the attempt and landings were impossible.

Here are some if’s for a possible Sea Lion:  If the Germans had captured the 340,000 Allied troops at Dunkirk, and the Luftwaffe had concentrated their air power only over the Channel and a little past the British beaches, knock out the radar antenna’s daily instead of going far interior, make the landings in July, there might have been a chance.  My biggest problem at this point is supply…would the royal navy have broken into a heavily mined English Channel, and how long would that have taken?  Would the Luftwaffe done a number on the Royal Navy?..their showing at Dunkirk was disapointing from that view and question.  The lack of landing craft and the lack of appropriate kinds of aircraft(longer range FTR’s, and a very large number of Condor’s) make Sea Lion even ify’er.

From a AA standpoint I think a Sea Lion should be a possibility since you should not be saddled with the poor planning of Hitler, and then there is the ‘fun factor’ for the game itself.

I think I saw somewhere that one full turn is 6 months.  If thats true, some of our games have gone into the 1960’s.

Anyway, this game has to have some sort of semblance to history.  USSR should not be allowed to attack Germany prior to 1942.  Not only did the two countries have a deal that included trade, but Stalin thought he and Hitler would be allied for some time.  It came as a total shock to Stalin when he was told about the German invasion and he refused to believe it for some time.

If you want to make the USSR entry variable, fine, but the first three turns at a minimum Germany should be free of any USSR attack…which defeats the concept of putting more pressure on Germany.

The simple most solution is to change the at start forces even just a little.  Please keep this game at least semi-historical.

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

To take the political rules in another direction for a moment…

I think there should be a “Free France” rule…that after Paris falls, France can choose one of its territories as a new capitol, and with the ability to collect IPC’s from all Free Franch/captured(by Free France) Axis territories, eventually saving enough to build a minor IC and more units.  If that new capitol territory is captured by the Axis, Free France is done other than the Free France units still on the map.

I dont think 1 INF is that big of a deal, but if the UK at start forces are adjusted to make a Sea Lion less likely, perhaps adding a couple-three more French INF would be the way to do it, and give the French a bit more to work with.

If Japan DOW’s UK, will that bring in USSR?  That would be a-historical.  I think some of your concerns can be addressed with slight adjustments to the at start forces for a Global game.

Agreed concerning the poltical rules, however I do not think its necessary to do anything a-historical.  If there is an imbalance anywhere it can be addressed with adjustments to the At Start forces for the Global game.  ie…give Italy one less TRS, UK a little more in Egypt, maybe UK gets 1FTR, 1INF, 1AB, and 1 SUB in Malta, 1 INF in Gibraltar.  A few more INF for UK in Britain, etc…

I assume this (Global) game has been playtested???

I would leave Southern France for the Italians.  I think the opening moves for Germany and UK need to be looked at through the prism of a possible “Sea Lion”, thanks to SgtBlitz.  Use the 2TAC for Sea Lion and instead use the 2 MECH, 1 ARM on France.

I think doing both or either one are very valid…probably the Italian fleet in SZ92 would be the one to go after…which would make the Italian first moves less potent, and with the additional INF from India, really could stall out the Italian attack.

However, after playing AAP40 we noticed that it was best for Japan to DOW on turn 1, and if UK does not build almost all INF, they will lose India…they will lose it anyway from our experience…although faster if UK does not build all INF.

SgtBlitz did a great analysis of a possible Sea Lion, which would proabably mean all hands on deck for UK including the CV/TAC/DD UK has in SZ91…which means no nuking the Italian fleet in SZ92.  Also, that would be a suicide mission for UK to go into SZ92…next turn the Germans can wipe them out.

Your German naval strategy also means an Italian naval strategy.  I think the Sea Lion threat(or promise) might be the standard opening move for Germany.

I replied to your post in Battle of the Atlantic.  Very good analysis SgtBlitz!  I prefer your “Additional G1 Strategy”…KO the RAF on turn 1.

Excelent analysis SgtBlitz!!!  I like your “additional G1 strategy”…KO the RAF…with the economic losses UK will experience in Africa, and maybe from SUBs as well, they will be hard pressed to build enough INF to defend Britain, much less build more aircraft/ships.  Some on this site have suggested UK send the RAF to Malta(“Fortress Malta”)…turn 1?  I highly doubt there will be an RAF after turn one with your suggestions here.

Very good purplebaron!…although I see it as Malta being controlled by the Italians, and the Allies making the attack on the Italian fleet with Axis CAP as the most likely scenario.

On Italy’s first turn they should move their entire fleet to the eastern Med invading Syria and Palestine…stay there on the second turn and invade Egypt(in conjunction with other units by way of land of course)…the SZ that borders Egypt and Syria(I cant see what number that SZ is).  What can UK do to the Italian fleet out there?  On the third turn the Italian fleet can invade Malta with Axis air swarming all over the Med.  I dont see how UK can stop the Axis from taking Malta on the third turn…maybe someone can tell explain how that would work?

Malta then becomes an unsinkable CV for the Italian fleet.  Italy/Axis can place as much air on Malta as they need to, to provide CAP for the Italian fleet…with Italy building the occaisional SUB, and building as many INF and ARM as they can in Egypt.  Its going to be a very tough first few turns for the Allies.  That being said, I dont think the game is won in the Med or Africa…a lot will depend on what Germany does, and of course the die rolls.

Is there any chance this web site will provide IM-type game rooms with internet die rollers so we can all play head to head in real time?

With an airbase, Malta becomes the unlimited, unsinkable CV the Italians need to protect their fleet.  No need for Italy to build any CV’s unless they are on the offensive later in the game which I doubt.  Lots of SUBs would be nice though!

The Italian fleet should not attack the French fleet in SZ 91.  On the first turn the Germans can easily sink the French DD and CA, and in return might lose one FTR.

I think its a very strong possibility for Germany, and worth exploring.  It would however require a few things to happen:
1.  UK willing to send its RAF to other places such as Malta, Africa, or USSR.
2.  Germany destroying as much of the UK fleet as possible on its first turn.
3.  Germany to have a very powerful Luftwaffe and have it in position in the west as well as soak-offs in the way of SUBS to keep UK from building a fleet in and around the British Isles. 
Since this requires a good performance by Germany initially, Germany to be actively ready and willing to sink anything with the Luftwaffe, and most importantly your opponent to cooperate.  That makes it hard to plan for it at the outset.  I would say start building subs early and often and see what develops…then if possible build surface combat ships if you have a lot of SUBS.

What is ILs World at War?  I play World in Flames by ADG…the best WWII game created(that I know about).  Its probably the most popular too with 4 world-wide annual cons(Germany, Australia, California, and Michigan).  There is a very active Yahoo support list/group, and Matrix Games is working on a computer version…probably out in about two years.

See, thats why I made my profile name “miamibeach” so I might attract the attention of someone nearby;-)  Actually, on occasion I am in Pinellas County.  Are you part of a group of wargamers, or solo?

It seems you are kinda counting on your Italian opponent to take his eye off his primary objective(Egypt).  Once Egypt is Italian and they have built an IC there, the Italian fleet is less important…but with 1BB, 2CA’s, 1 DD…it will take quite a bit of airpower to take it all out…making Malta weaker too of the air comes from there.

The smart UK move on its first turn would be to keep 1 INF in Alexandria and move everything it can into Egypt.  If it looks like a close call you can defend Egypt, but if Italy has what it needs to take Egypt on turn 2, you might want to preserve the UK units and slow down the Axis in Africa…evacuate Egypt(-1 INF) and keep moving southwards until your units built in S. Africa can meet you coming north(send the FTR to Malta in your scenario?).

With the unit strengths the way they are now, Italy can take Egypt turn 2.  If UK has 5 FTRs and 1 TAC in Malta(again, I highly doubt you get INF into Malta, and even if you could it would’nt be worth it…Germany will destroy any fleet UK can get there by turn 3), the Axis can take Malta with a one-two punch from Germany(air)-Italy(invasion+air) on turn 3…and now there is no RAF, unless you built air the first two turns anticipating these losses.  So if you want to do a Malta gambit, you might want to build heavy on air as UK and little else…and have to live with a very small Royal Navy for a while.

It looks like a fun game, and especially so when there is disagreement.  Too bad we cant prove our positions;-(

France would be a factor if there was a “Free France” with a capitol and a factory somewhere.  As it is now, they are a speed bumb, as they were historically.  After the first turn they will have 5 scattered INF, 1 DD, and 1 CA, and have given Germany their 17 IPC’s.