Posts made by Lynxes

Should we try to guess the changes to the A&A Ann Ed.? I list only those not confirmed by Larry and compiled on this thread;

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/307782

So, bypassing set-up and territory IPCs values:

• Italy: 20 IPCs, Germany: 35 IPCs, Soviet Union: 28 IPCs, UK: 32 IPCs.
• Italian-related territories: Sicily, Malta, Southern Europe added, four new africa areas added (Marocko, Tunisia, Tobruk and Western Desert), added 4 sea zones in Med.
• German territories: Western Europe divided into Northern France + Southern/Vichy France, Eastern Europe into Baltic States + Poland.
• Italy: Controls Italy + Southern Europe + Sicily + Balkans + Marocko + Algeria + Tunisia + Tripoli at-start (+ Italian East Africa in '41).
• Atlantic: sea zone 12 (Azores) borders Gibraltar.
• China territories: divided into six areas, each allowing for one Chinese inf/ turn in Chungking.
• Pacific territories: French Indo-china divided into French Indo-china, Burma and Singapore. Australia divided into two. Hong-kong, Iwo Jima, New Britain and Marshall Islands added. Six new sea zones added in Pacific, of which two around India/Singapore.
• VCs: added in Honolulu, Sydney, Alexandria, Stalingrad, Tripoli, Ploesti, Warsaw, Djakarta.
• UK ICs: one in Egypt, one in India.
• Naval unit costs: BB 20 IPCs, CV 15 IPCs, CA 14 IPCs, DD 10 IPCs.
• CV: defence down to ‘2’.
• DD: attack/defend ‘2’.
• CA: attack/defend ‘3’. Special ability: shore bombardment at ‘2’.
• Subs: may only be attacked if a DD is present in attacking force.
• Victory conditions: individual or collective.

What do you think?

/Imperious leader

Interesting stuff, I had only a vague idea of how this process has been working out. Was Mike Selinker a great influence on the AA revised design?

Subs are normally used in the Pacific by the US as a part of their fleet, it’s the Atlantic that’s the problem. Every sub the Germans build is blown away before reaching the enemy fleet!! The only counter to this is building a CV but this is of course a bit strange. My “sub bunker” rule would be a simple fix as the subs could be transferred to France and then harass UK and US shipping with air support. I have no problem with subs dying quickly, they had a 80-90% loss rate in the war after all, but they MUST be able to cause serious damage otherwise they won’t be built and even less now that the German economy will lose the Italian IPCs.

Probably Larry Harris thinks the search rules are too complex. I think you could have similar effects with other changes, such as: battleships and cruisers may not fire vs. subs.

Not having an IPC damage rule is OK for me as what the subs did was basically to sink ships. The cargo losses I think was not what worried the Allies, it was about sinking more ships than could be built. For every transport sunk, you must build a new one => IPC damage. If subs are really good at sinking ships then there’s no need for convoy zones.

/Imperious leader

The naval balance could be fixed with a few nice changes, will be interesting to see how they do it. If they could fix the sub unit the way they fixed the battleship unit for AARe I would be thrilled.

Maybe we could have a new special ability instead of “first strike”, that one being taken over by cruisers, e.g.:

"Cruiser special ability: fires in “first strike” if no enemy battleships or carriers are present.

Sub special abilities: 1) May avoid combat if in a sea zone adjacent to a friendly land area (i.e., bunkers).
2) May choose to make a strategic attack: may pass through any units and move to a sea zone containing at least one transport. There it fights a combat vs. carriers, fighters, destroyers and transports only. Only subs may take part in the strategic attack and they may not retreat. If only fighters remain on the defending side, the combat ends."

Probably nothing like what Larry et al have done but subs are broken as it is, and they can be fixed in many, many ways…

My guess is that they might split Balkans into two, but not in order to put an IC in either of the areas. Maybe Italy will get both areas and all the Axis Minors would be included in the Italian forces (except Finland). This will unable the Germans to build an IC in Roumania/Balkans since this would unbalance the naval operations in the game.

/Imperious leader

Now we’re getting down to it! Trying to figure the Italy situation, I think that the changes will be smaller than you propose, if we try to extrapolate from the AARe changes I think:

Italy 16 IPCs;
Italy 8 IPCs (AARe never divided Germany into different areas!)
Balkans 3 IPCs
Sicily 2 IPCs.
Tripoli 1 IPCs
Tobruk 1 IPCs
Italian East Africa (1941 scenario) 1 IPCs

6 Infantry + 1 German Infantry (Afrika Korps)
2 Artillery + 1 German Artillery (AF)
1 Tank + 1 German Tank (AF)
1 Fighter
1 Bomber
1 BB
1 CA
1 DD
1 AP

More than this would make Italy too powerful! In the Med. I would expect: something like 6 sea zones, so that the British fleet in East Med. wouldn’t need to be reachable first turn. Malta would be added. It could probably be easily taken but with only one AP reinforcement of Africa could be more important (just as in the real war).

In Africa you would have Tripoli, Tobruk, Western Desert and Egypt areas, with an IC in Egypt. Then you could have a tug of war and everything not decided on the first turn. If balanced correctly, UK would have to move troops through the Med. to actually win vs. a good Italian, making the naval war all-important and Malta useful as a landing zone for troops (perhaps not totally historically correct but in the spirit of the war certainly). The naval campaign could be even in that Germany couldn’t commit subs and planes just like that due to different turn order, otherwise UK med. fleet would just be massacred!

Maybe the Afrika Korps could be able to forfeit its move and wait till the Italian move, in that way the desert campaign would be easier to conduct (?).

/Imperious leader

Yes, no TRN involvement in combat at all! Because you on some posts imply that you know more than you can say on the end-product A&A Anniversary Edition, I assume that none of these changes have actually been put into the product, except for the cruiser addition and consequent destroyer modification.

I can only hope for good NAs to resolve the sub issue, maybe some of the NAs can be used as a standard rule for all nations. I sometimes have a hard time getting friends to try out house rules, so having them in the rule book is perfect.

Anyway, even with only China, Italy and cruisers added this could make for a much more active Pacific and Mediterranean operation zone and that alone is worth buying the game, even if Larry Harris dislikes convoy attack and interceptor rules…

Actually I hope the inclusion of Italy will have had the consequences of making some good changes to the game that would otherwise not be done. My guesses are:

1. Changed sea zones in Med. At least North and South Central Med., maybe even more.
2. Changed naval setup in Med., so that UK:s navy isn’t obliterated in the first turn.
3. More IPCs to Axis. To be balanced, Germany should have around 32 IPCs, Italy 15 IPCs.
4. More land areas in Africa, should have the same good effects as in Russia for AARe.
5. UK factory at start in Africa and/or India. The only way to make Africa a more interesting battlefield.

Overall the balance could be good as UK would be forced to put a lot of production in Africa, postponing the invasion of Europe to when it can be coordinated with the US.

/Imperious leader

I’m fully aware of the inherent conservatism of Larry Harris, and have followed some of the forums of the last few years. My questions are not related to house rules, which me and my friends have some of their own as I’m sure most gamer teams do.

I just wanted to figure out what the already finished product will be like. Since Revised was such a great improvement with a few simply fixes (territories, IPC boost for Germany), I actually have a good hope for real improvement this time around.

Of your ideas, I think the transport defend on ‘0’ is the best of the lot, but doubt if it’ll be implemented. But it would be a great leap for A&A-kind! I don’t think CV and CA should be 2 hits, that would be some kind of inflation in special abilities. Should Cruisers be able to move to a different sea zone if having a movement point left, even if that means participating in two combats? That would be a blitz-like ability that at the same time would not be too powerful since these occasions are not that common as players usually pool their fleets to one sea zone. In Guadalcanal, cruisers don’t even have a special ability, do they?

/Imperious leader

I found an answer of a post by Axis_Roll by Larry where the former suggests some changes and the latter seems to be quite positive.

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/bb2/viewtopic.php?t=1519

They were:

1. Destroyer cost - from 12 to 10
2. A/C cost - from 16 to 14
3. BB cost - from 24 to 20
4. Subs - You can not attack subs with planes only. You must have a naval ship.

Number 4 could be even better I would say if you would need a destroyer, as in AAE. If we add in a cruiser at cost 15, A3, D3 and some special ability you would have a very interesting situation! Can’t wait till October!

I can’t find any information on the actual changes except the addition of cruisers, Italy and a “minor” China, and the addition of some extra terrítories, presumably around Italy and China.

As “no convoy zones” have been announced by Larry himself, I do hope that they add something to the Subs special abilities. The 2 hit rule for battleships was perfect and made it a good buy when it wasn’t in the earlier game.

Subs: blockade of IPCs if situated next to enemy ICs (“interdiction NA”) ?

Cruisers: I’m at a loss here, maybe a “blitz” function at sea ?

Was planning to playtest these ideas before posting them, but maybe you have some impressions right away. This is strictly historical stuff, so Japanese have much less than Germany but this is due to the historical facts of Japanese types being inferior to American. Kamikazes and the like rules could be added to give the Japs a boost.

Note that air combat values is for one round air-air combat in both SBR and ordinary combat, normally fighters hit on a 2 and bombers on a 1. Night bombing in SBR reduces these values by 1 and also 1 less IPC damage. Subs attack convoy zones, causing one die of IPC damage. My house rules also uses the following base costs: 
Battleships: 20 IPCs. Destroyers: 10 IPCs. Submarines: 7 IPCs.
Bombers: 12 IPCs. Fighters: 8 IPCs. ICs: 12 IPCs.

/Lynxes

Tech rules:
*The original rules for technologies are replaced by the following rules.
*To play with these rules, you need the units from an earlier Axis&Allies edition. Each side has 7 high-tech units that are built as separate units of the same kind, below are listed the values that differ from the original values, the unit sculpt used to represent the unit and the turn that the unit first may be built. The type of unit not listed below is represented by units from the other edition (i.e. ordinary Soviet tanks are represented by earlier A&A ed. tanks). Each side starts with 3 high-tech units, choose standard units of the unit type to be replaced at start, starting with Allied side. If bidding for sides, extra high-tech unit replacements may be bought for 2 IPCs each. Note that only units available turn 1 may be chosen in this way. For internet play, use control markers next to high-tech units (except: Me-262s and Type XXIs).

Soviet Union:
T-34 tank: cost 6 IPCs, combat 4/4, rev. ed., turn 1.
Sturmovik fighter: cost 7 IPCs, if enemy has tanks: attacks on a ‘4’, functions as a bomber in air combat (fires on a ‘1’, no air combat when defending, no CAP, no escort to SBR), rev. ed., turn 1.

Germany:
Ju87 Stuka fighter: attacks on a ‘5’ first round of land combat, functions as a bomber in air combat (fires on a ‘1’, no air combat when defending, no CAP, no escort to SBR), rev.ed., turn 1.
Ju88 bomber: may function as a fighter when escorting or intercepting Night bombing SBR missions and then fire on a ‘2’, subtract one from IPC damage caused, rev.ed., turn 1.
Panther tank: cost 7 IPCs, combat 4/5, rev.ed., turn 3.
Me262 jet fighter: cost 10 IPCs, defence: ‘5’, fires on a ‘3’ in air combat (on a ‘2’ at Night), mark w. control marker under earlier edition fighter (internet: use “destroyer” sculpt), turn 5.
Type XXI submarine: cost 9 IPCs, attack: ‘3’, add one to IPC damage caused, cancels the first enemy hit to a sub-only force, mark w. control marker under sub (internet: use “bomber” sculpt), turn 5.

UK:
Lancaster bomber: cost 14 IPCs, attack: ‘5’, add one to IPC damage caused, rev.ed., turn 1.
Mosquito fighter: cost 10 IPCs, range 6, fires on a ‘2’ when escorting or intercepting Night bombing SBR missions, may not land on carriers, early ed., turn 2.

Japan:
Zero fighter: cost 10 IPCs, sea zones: ‘3’ in air combat and attacks on a ‘4’ first round, rev.ed., turn 1.
Yamato battleship: cost 22 IPCs, combat 5/5, fires first fire if enemy has no air units, rev.ed., turn 1.

USA:
Lightning fighter: cost 10 IPCs, range 6, sea zones: ‘3’ in air combat, may not land on carriers, rev.ed., turn 1.
Flying fortress bomber: cost 15 IPCs, fires on a ‘2’ in air combat (can’t hit at night), rev.ed., turn 2.
Escort carrier: cost 10 IPCs, defence: ‘2’, carries one fighter, negates sub special abilities like destroyer if carrying a fighter, early edition, turn 3.

Ok, here’s the “Light” version, some ideas in any case;

Dogfights: one round before SBR and land & naval combat, if defending fighter(s) choose to intercept. Fighters fire at ‘2’ and bombers at ‘1’. The max number of fighters that may intercept is the number of enemy aircraft. The first loss in dogfights is chosen first by defender as usual, but the next by the attacker, and so forth. This is to force bomber losses.

AA: divided into fixed and field AA, fixed AA are the normal pieces and fire at every incoming bomber in SBR raids only. But in normal land combat only Artillery units may fire, each fire on a ‘1’ on one aircraft taking part in the land combat up to a maximum of one roll per aircraft. All AA hits cause the hit air unit to abort and return to base without taking part in combat or SBR.

CAP: in your turn, you may in your Combat Movement put fighters on Combat Air Patrol in an adjacent controlled land area or sea area without enemy units. Place CAP fighters on the border between areas to show they haven’t moved there. CAP fighters takes part in any dogfight combat(s) in enemy turns in the area, but may not take part in land or naval combat. At the start of your turn, all fighters on CAP land in that area or any adjacent area and then move as normal in Combat movement. They are not destroyed if the enemy captures the area, but if they have no adjacent area to land in in your next player turn they are.

SBR specials: UK may choose to conduct night bombing, bombers then can’t hit in dogfight combat and fighters hit only on a ‘1’. US fighters increase their range to ‘6’ when escorting bombers that SBR.

Well, the big thing to decide is whether you have combined fighter/bomber units as in Axis & Allies or separate them as I propose.

Even if you decide to combine them, defense reinforcement and interceptions of strategic bombing can be used to improve the game. The problem is that US or UK fighters can’t reach Germany from Britain- that’s why I have Lightnings and Mosquitos, it’s NOT just chrome… =)

/Lynxes

Just some ideas to support your work here, on the airplane issue. Note these are not play-tested, just some ideas from my earlier World in Flames where I loved the aircraft names on counters but hated the countless hours needed to play the game… Just like in that game, fighters now only shoot at other aircraft. Carrier air still is combined naval bombers/ fighters.

Air combat: if there is a bomber and at least one ftr in a land combat, there is a round of air combat before each land combat round. Naval combat w. carrier air on both sides always includes an air combat round. When there are no fighters on either side, the air combat round is skipped. Fighters are never subject to AA fire. Only bombers are attacked by AA and only after the first air combat round. Bomber hits always hit fighters, may not hit other bombers. Every second (fourth, sixth etc) fighter hit is designated by the attacker. When an air unit is hit in air combat, they may avoid being destroyed by rolling a dogfight roll. This is equal to the air combat value for bombers, for fighters it is different for each fighter type. Attackers that win this roll retreat, defenders continue to fight.

Fighters- Standard fighters: 3/4 air only, range 4, cost 8 IPCs. When defending in non-air combat rounds, ftrs do not participate until they are the last units remaining when they may be taken as losses. If only ftrs are remaining after a non-air combat round, they may retreat to any adjacent land area that was not attacked this turn (SBR doesn’t count). If no such area exists, they are destroyed.

Carrier air- fighters bound to the carrier, but can be killed in the air combat round or be killed in the naval combat separately from the carrier. When bought they are placed directly on carrier next to a friendly land area. Fighters mat be converted to carrier air for 4 IPCs, or vice versa. Have 3/4 in both air and naval combat, cost 10 IPCs. Also 2/2 land bombing on islands only (note UK and Japan are not single-sea zone islands), they are too small aircraft to influence a major land campaign.

Bombers/special fighters- here I think you could use the different pieces in Revised and 2nd A&A, w. these air units for each nation:

Germany:
AA2nded fighter- standard fighter (Messerschmitt Bf-109). Dogfight: 2/3.
AAR fighter- Junkers 87 Dive bomber, 4/2, range 4, cost 10 IPCs, 1 in Air combat, no SBR.
AAR bomber- Junkers 88 Medium bomber, 4/3, range 6, cost 12 IPCs, 2 in Air combat, half SBR. May be used as night fighter: then 3/4 in air combat.
AA2nded bomber- standard bomber.

Soviet Union:
AAR fighter- standard fighter. Dogfight: 2/2.
AA2nded fighter- Sturmovik IL-2 bomber, 3/4, range 4, cost 8 IPCs, 2 in Air combat, no SBR.
AAR bomber- standard bomber.

USA:
AA2nded fighter- standard fighter. Dogfight: 3/3.
AAR fighter- P38 Lightning, 3/4 fighter, range 6, cost 12 IPCs. May not be carrier ftr. Dogfight: 4/3 (also represents P-51 Mustangs).
AA2nded bomber- B-25 Mitchell medium bomber, 4/3, range 6, cost 15 IPCs, 2 in Air combat, half SBR.
AAR bomber- B-17 Flying Fortress heavy bomber, 4/2, range 6, cost 18 IPCs, 2 in Air combat, SBR +1.

UK:
AAR fighter- standard fighter (Spitfire). Dogfight: 3/3.
AA2nded bomber- Mosquito light bomber, 3/4, range 6, cost 12 IPCs, 2 in Air combat, half SBR. May be used as night fighter: has 3/4 night ftr.
AAR bomber, Lancaster heavy bomber, 4/1, range 6, cost 15 IPCS, 1 in Air combat, SBR +1. No naval bombing.

Japan:
AA2nded fighter- standard fighter. Dogfight: 2/2.
AAR fighter, Mitsubishi A6 “Zero”, 3/4 fighter, 4/3 naval bomber (no land bombing, exc. if carrier ftr, islands at 2/2), cost 12 IPCs, costs only 2 IPCs to convert b/w ftr and carrier ftr. Dogfight: 3/2.
AAR bomber, standard bomber.

Standard bomber: 4/2, range 6, 1 in Air combat, 15 IPCs, one die of IPC damage. Bombers can fly night bombing: reduce SBR damage by one, all air units fire on one less (except Ju88/Mosquitos used as night ftrs). Lend-lease restriction: UK and US may only send ordinary ftrs to base in Russian home areas due to Soviet lack of training for advanced aircraft. Jet fighters: 4/5 air only, 12 IPCs, need tech. Dogfight: 4/4.

Starting forces: Each ftr unit on land, replace w. 1 standard ftr and 1 bomber, the latter Ju87s, Sturmoviks, Mitchells, Mosquitos. UK and US bmrs at start: Lancaster and Flying Fortress. Exception: Germany replace one Ju87 w. a Ju88, US replace 1 ftr w. a Lightning. Japan: one of carrier ftr and the ftr in Japan are Zeros, but only 1 bmr at start in Japan.

Strategic bombing: IPC damage capped at half cash at hand. AA hits are aborts, roll an extra die, only on a 1-2 is bomber killed, only killed on a second ‘1’ if bomber has Air combat: 2. Note you must fight one air combat round if intercepted, before AA fire. Escorting fighters are designated before interceptions but are not subject to AA fire.

Defensive use of air units: you may reinforce air units to adjacent land or sea areas under attack, if these air units are not defending against another attack (including SBR). They take part in the first round of air combat and the first round of land or naval combat with one less in defense value. After that they are returned to their area of origin. This gives the defender a much needed advantage since the attacker can draw air units from his entire front. It also gives island bases in the pacific a greater historical use as air bases. Note that Pearl Harbor and the British and German Home fleets now become much, much harder to attack!

/Lynxes, swedish gamer, now waiting to play “Europe Engulfed”