Posts made by Lynxes

Ok, Herr Arnulfe, perfect! It doesn’t matter if we get everything right, at this point we just need something approximate to discuss preliminary strategies before we get the game. So:

Germany

Poland+Czech-Hungary+Bulgaria-Roumania= 5 IPCs
Baltic States+Belorussia+East Ukraine+Ukraine= 5 IPCs

Soviet Union

Archangelsk + no Allied units on red areas= 5 IPCs
Finland+Baltic States+East Poland+Ukraine = 5 IPCs

Japan

Netherlands East Indies+Borneo+Phillipines+no start area lost= 5 IPCs

UK

?

Italy

No enemy ships in Med sea zones= 5 IPCs
Libya+Egypt+Italian Africa=10 IPCs

US/China

France = 5 IPCs
XX
XX
XX

Check out the “Throw us a…” thread. These IPCs bonuses seem to be decisive and we’re trying to figure them out.

So, let’s list the bonuses, and please feel free to edit as I’m only quoting and adding up:

Germany

Poland+Czech-Hungary+Bulgaria-Roumania= 5 IPCs
Baltic States+Belorussia+East Ukraine+Ukraine= 5 IPCs

Soviet Union

Archangelsk + no Allied units on red areas= 5 IPCs

Japan

Netherlands East Indies+Borneo+Phillipines+no start area lost= 5 IPCs

UK

?

Italy

No enemy ships in Med sea zones= 5 IPCs
Libya+Egypt+Italian Africa=10 IPCs

US/China

?

/variant

Look at the game map pictures on www.boardgamegeek.com!! You can see that Japan grabs a lot of territories very quickly, since the game starts in 1941, and the same goes for Germany as the first turn is the Barbarossa campaign.

I wrote out what my predictions are for turn 2 and I do think that is quite a good balance. The ratio I predicted is probably not right exactly, but all in all the Axis might well have it slightly better than in Axis&Allies Revised.

On IPC values in -41 scenario:

Germany 30  (+ 4 IPC worth of Russia taken turn 1)
Soviet Union 30 (- 4 IPC worth lost on turn 1)
Japan 17 (+5 bonus, plus 13 IPCs taken turn 1)
UK 42 (minus Hong-kong, Burma, NEI, Borneo 11 IPCs lost on turn 1)
Italy 10 (+5 bonus)
US/China 45 (minus Phillippines 2 IPCs lost on turn 1)

I assume only the confirmed IPC bonuses of “no enemy ships in Med” worth Italy 5 IPCs and “Japan takes historical islands and holds at start territories” 5? IPCs.

Turn 2 would be around (assuming Germany taking Baltics, East P and Ukraine, Japan NEI, Borneo, Hong-Kong, Phil. and Burma, and the Allies not having any ships in Med):
Germany 34
Soviet Union 26
Japan 35
UK 31
Italy 15
US 43 + 9 IPCs worth of free China inf

Allies: 109, Axis: 84, compared to AAR: Allies 96, Axis 70.

Ratio: AA50 1.30 in Allied favour, AAR 1.37 in Allied favour.

When discussing IPC and balance, you should take into account the IPC-bonuses you apparently get with some combination of territories. They didn’t use this rule in the GENCON game, but it means that the aggressive player gets extra IPCs each turn, i.e. the Axis at the start of the game. This will probably give the game a good historical feel and also a swing effect, one major victory will give way to more, i.e. signifying morale of your nation that was very important in the war. I assume these bonuses represents more morale than resources which are well represented by territory values!

Confirmed bonuses:

No enemy ships in Med- Italy 5 IPCs

Probable:
Control all islands in Pacific exc. Hawaii, NZ and AUS and still keeping all at-start areas- Japan X IPCs?
Control of major part of Africa/middle east? - Italy X IPCs
Control of major part of European Russia ? - Germany X IPCs

Probable IPCs values in -41 scenario:
Germany 30  (+5 bonus? + 4 IPC worth of Russia taken turn 1)
Soviet Union 30 (- 4 IPC worth lost on turn 1)
Japan 17 (+5 bonus, plus 13 IPCs taken turn 1)
UK 42 (minus Hong-kong, Burma, NEI, Borneo 11 IPCs lost on turn 1)
Italy 10 (+5/10 bonus?)
US/China 45 (minus Phillippines 2 IPCs lost on turn 1)

You will quickly reach AAR values, the only difference being Germany has slightly less, Soviet Union slightly more, Italy added at least at 15 and then around 3 free China inf/turn. What does it add up to? My five cents is that it’s similar to AAR in balance, but much more enjoyable and complex and rewarding playing!

Well, if you check out the map and what’s written on BGG and Smorey Swamp forum you find that Italy gets 5 IPCs in bonus for every turn that the Med is free from Allied ships. In addition, there’s probably a similar bonus for control of all the land territories around the Med. An Italy at 20 IPCs is quite dangerous, so containing Italy with some naval concentration in the Med and land forces in Africa is probably necessary. Same goes for Japan I would think, since an unchecked Japan would probably gobble up India, Australia and Hawaii in no-time.

I agree that ignoring any Axis power is probably not doable. At least I hope the VC conditions are set to make an all-out attack on Germany very dangerous for the Allies. E.g: now Japan won’t have the time to assault Moscow before Germany would fall, but the game should be lost to the Allies if Japan grabs those 3 Pacific VCs and Germany manages to hold on to theirs (total 11 VCs). But containing Italy and Japan and then going for Germany as a kind of modified KGF might still be a good strategy albeit much more complex to carry out…

/IL

Isn’t the ship off Hawaiian Islands a battleship? It thought it was laid out for Pearl Harbor repeated? It’s pretty clear on the other BGG pic where you see the Pacific better.

So, US should be, navally speaking:

1 Battleship
1 CV +ftr
4 destroyers
3 transports

Of which the battleship, 2 destroyers and 2 transports (Hawaii, Phillipines & West Coast) would never survive turn J1… Will force the US to put loads of production into Pacific, which is fine by me, good for game balance! I assume the US can’t ignore the Japanese, now that Sydney and Honolulu are VCs.

All in all, good naval balance I think. Only four battleships at start, and you would be hard pressed to build one. Probably only US would afford it in a normal game. So, going at the battleship at Pearl for the Japanese IS a good move. Likewise, the Germans might be tempted to commit its air force to destroy the British battleship off Scapa Flow, with potentially disastrous consequences on the Eastern front…

OK, subs at ‘1’ defence, makes sense. When I look closer at the map, I see it as well. Is the rest correct?

Mobilization zone (Cost, move, attack, defend:

Infantry  3/1/1/2
Artillery  4/1/2/2
Tank          5/2/3/3
AA-gun        5/1/-/1
IC            15/-/-/-

Fighter        10/4/3/4
Bomber      13/6/4/1

Submarine  6/2/2/1
Transport  7/2/-/-
Destroyer  8/2/2/2
Cruiser      12/2/3/3
Carrier        14/2/1/2
Battleship  20/2/4/4

1942 scenario ( I read the Japanese player chart):

1. Japan
2. Soviet Union
3. Germany
4. UK
5. Italy
6. US

/IL

I suspect also that subs will have some new ability/disability. Perhaps they will have to submerge after one round if a destroyer is still present, or some other limitation. If only they have this combined with some economic attack special ability, but even so subs seem to be the real deal in this edition however they come out.

On second thoughts, bomber looks a little bit more like 13 in cost and battleship as 20. Can someone at GENCON clarify this. This would be:

Mobilization zone (Cost, move, attack, defend:

Infantry  3/1/1/2
Artillery  4/1/2/2
Tank          5/2/3/3
AA-gun        5/1/-/1
IC            15/-/-/-

Fighter        10/4/3/4
Bomber      13/6/4/1

Submarine  6/2/2/2
Transport  7/2/-/-
Destroyer  8/2/2/2
Cruiser      12/2/3/3
Carrier        14/2/1/2
Battleship  20/2/4/4

/IL

Hey, look at my editing. Of course all ships have 2 moves. Take the BGG map at the largest size (where you can see the mobilization box in South Atlantic). The only thing that was unclear to me was fighter, bomber and battleships cost, but I think I got it right.

Have you noticed that on the map, there are 6 areas from Manchuria to Moscow, instead of 4 as in AAR? And that most of the Japanese transports seems to be placed at Truk? This combined with new VC placing and the Chinese production rules could make the Japanese tank assault on Moscow a rare sight in the game.

Its not 100% clear, but I think I can read this on the map board:

Mobilization zone (Cost, move, attack, defend:

Infantry 3/1/1/2
Artillery 4/1/2/2
Tank       5/2/3/3
AA-gun     5
IC         15

Fighter       10/4/3/4
Bomber     15/6/4/1

Submarine 6/2/2/2
Transport 7/2/-/-
Destroyer 8/2/2/2
Cruiser         12/2/3/3
Carrier         14/2/1/2
Battleship 18/2/4/4

By the way folks, if you register at board game geek you can get a really good pic of the whole board.

VCs added are: Ottawa, Warsaw, Stalingrad, Hong-kong, Sydney and Honolulu. All good choices, even though Singapore was what I thought. Makes sense though, it gives the Chinese two VCs to attack at the coast.

No ICs in Egypt or India. But with Burma there, you would be able to build your IC in peace in Ìndia, and this might be used to reinforce Africa as well.

China has 7 territories at start, so if the Japs takes the three they can reach the Chinese still spit out 4 inf, correct? Should make for tight fighting!

New SBR rules, superb, tell me more! What’s on subs?

Territories in Europe, Northeast Europe was a surprise. Gives the Allies the choice of Calais or Normandy when invading. Will the Germans be stretched by that long coastline? Is that Bismarck in the baltic? =) Waiting for more details…

After helpful comments I have made some changes to my guess for the Anniversary edition (BOLD). Now let’s wait for Gencon!!

Again, bypassing set-up and territory IPCs values:

• Italy: 20 IPCs, Germany: 35 IPCs, Soviet Union: 28 IPCs, UK: 32 IPCs.
• Italian-related territories: Sicily, Malta, Southern Europe added, four new africa areas added (Marocko, Tunisia, Tobruk and Western Desert), added 4 sea zones in Med.
• German territories: Western Europe divided into Western Europe + VICHY FRANCE (borders Western Europe, Italy), Eastern Europe into Baltic States (borders Carelia, Belorussia, Germany, Poland) + Poland (borders Baltic states, Germany, Belorussia, Ukraine, Central Europe, Balkans). Added, so that two capitals are not connected: CENTRAL EUROPE (border w. Germany, Poland, Balkans and Italy).
• Italy: Controls Italy + Southern Europe + Sicily + Balkans + Marocko + Algeria + Tunisia + Tripoli at-start (+ Italian East Africa in '41).
• Atlantic: sea zone 12 (Azores) borders Gibraltar.
• China territories: divided into six areas, each allowing for one Chinese inf/ turn in Chungking.
• Pacific territories: French Indo-china divided into French Indo-china, Burma and Singapore. Australia divided into two. Hong-kong, Iwo Jima, New Britain and Marshall Islands added. Six new sea zones added in Pacific, of which two around India/Singapore.
• VCs: added in Honolulu, Sydney, Alexandria, Stalingrad, Tripoli, Ploesti, Warsaw, SINGAPORE.
• UK ICs: one in Egypt, one in India.
• NAVAL UNIT COSTS: BB 20 IPCs, CV 15 IPCs, CA 13 IPCs, DD 9 IPCs, SS 7 IPCs.
• CV: defence down to ‘2’.
• DD: attack/defend ‘2’.
• CA: attack/defend ‘3’. Special ability: shore bombardment at ‘2’.
• Subs: DEFENCE DOWN TO ‘1’, may only be attacked if a DD is present in attacking force.
• Shore bombardment: does not take place in first fire.
• Lend-lease rule: conversion of US and UK units to Soviet units in red territories.
• Victory conditions: individual or collective.

/timerover51

The '41 scenario was added I think to increase the options for Italy and Japan. Barbarossa will be interesting of course to play, but it will not change gameplay dramatically as I suspect any killer blow to Russia will probably have to wait to '42 and even '43 as in A&A Revised. But Italy in '41 can choose to boost its land help to the Germans, or to invade Gibraltar and move vs. West Africa or to focus on taking Egypt. Japan, of course, has massive amount of options as in A&A Pacific.

Italy switching sides will be represented by the Italian IC being taken over by the Allies, and being a really dangerous threat to Germany. The victory will also be represented in Italian IPCs being lost to the invading player. That is, when it switches sides, it is conquered as an Axis/fascist power and is included like the Free French in the Allies. The big question is if Italy will be divided into different territories. My guess in a post on another thread is that Sicily will be included as an important air base either for Italy vs. Malta or for the Allies vs. Italy proper. I don’t think Italy will be divided. That way the '43 landings of Sicily can take place even though southern Italy can’t be taken separately. It won’t be totally historically correct but good enough for a simulation!

/Adlertag

Maybe you’ll be right in the end. My guess is that shore bombardment will be exactly like in A&A Pacific, except that Cruisers strike at ‘2’ instead of Destroyers. Hopefully they will realize that both Battleships and Cruisers bombarding in first fire is too powerful and go back to normal shore bombardment.

I think that the real limit to amphibious warfare is Transports. In this new game, Destroyers will probably be bought instead of Transports for hit points in naval combat, and Transports will be more rare.

I do think, however, that Imperious Leader is right and would welcome a limit on supporting units in amph assaults such as one shore bombard and one air unit per invading unit (or transport even). But again, Larry is a conservative guy and we should probably except just the dropping of first fire SB.

/03321

I think that all powers with naval ambitions, UK, US, Japan and Italy will be hard pressed to raise cash for a BB, since they all have land campaigns to attend to. This will probably counterbalance the equations you refer to.

/03321

Well, maybe the cruiser will be at 13 IPCs and the destroyer at 9 IPCs. The bombard ability is the only one I could think of, and I thought it likely it would be in the game since it featured in research and AAP for the Destroyer unit.

Attack/defence per IPC + hit points per IPC:
BB at 24 : 6     / 12
BB at 22 : 5.5  / 11
BB at 20 : 5     / 10
CA at 14 : 4.7  / 14
CA at 13 : 4.3  / 13
CA at 12 : 4    / 12
DD at 10 : 5    / 10
DD at 9   : 4.5  / 9
SS at  8   : 4    / 8

As BBs have the two hit capability they should be more expensive. I guess for 20 IPCs since then Italy might be able to buy it with their starting cash (and more than 20 IPCs for Italy isn’t likely). If we use this as a starting point then CA would be at 14 or 13, DD at 10 or 9. I doubt if they will weaken subs further, maybe they will stay just the same and their weakness vs. air units will then outweigh their cheap cost. Reducing them to ‘1’ in defence is OK by me if they get other advantages such as lower cost and/or only able to attacked if DD in attacking force, they were only an offensive weapon after all.

/Imperious leader

I just try to guess what has been done. I would be surprised if defender retreats is in the game, as I think Larry would think this changes gameplay too much.

I’ve tried to think what changed from original A&A to Revised, and also that some, but not all, of AAE and AAP features will be included, and then extrapolate this to this edition.

VCs are an all-important change, and I base my ideas on that Larry seemed to be very positive to using VCs to promote historial play on a thread I read. So, no VC in China and plenty out in the Pacific fits this well. Maybe Singapore would be chosen instead of Djakarta, of course then UK would have 5 VCs at start of '41 scenario which is why I thought it unlikely. On the other hand, Netherlands East Indies forces might well be UK-controlled anyway, and then the point is moot I guess.

China will probably have been designed to take up a lot of attention from the Japanese, so that an offensive vs. the Soviets is possible only if other fronts are ignored and massive air power is diverted vs. China to achieve victory there. The Japanese will be rewarded if they play historically -> Pacific-oriented. Maybe more land areas will be added in Siberia as well to stall any offensive further?

When it comes to the Russian front I think Italy will be thought to control Romanian and Hungarian forces. This will actually be quite historically correct as the small forces they had never contributed in the great offensives but plugged holes in the front, which will be nicely simulated by the Italian turn coming after both the German and Soviet turns!

One thing I didn’t consider is if naval bases will be in the game, with a similar mechanic as in AAP. Would be quite interesting to see this applied to the European theater as this could make Gibraltar and Malta more worth fighting for.