Posts made by Lynxes

/greand stone

The way tech rolls now work, you get to keep tech rolls you buy to the next turn. So if a nation buys two tech rolls/turn, they will get 2 tech rolls the first turn and FOUR tech rolls the next turn if they don’t succeed the first turn. So you’ll get a tech every 2nd turn -> US will only have to wait 6 turns to get HBMBs w. 10 IPCs/turn investment on average.

/Romulus

The idea with tech to counter HBMBs is to get the tech before you get hit by a massive bombing campaign. Investment from turn 1.

/axis_roll

I’m basically with you in your critique of HBMB rules, but I also think I understand Krieghund’s position. He’s been recruited to be an answer guy for AA50, and not discuss the rule changes critically. From what he’s written so far, I understand that Jets won’t have any interception function, and I now edit that out from my starting post.

Balance-wise, it may be that the national objectives saves the Axis. Either to put money into techs to counter HBMBs or to win a victory on VCs before those HBMBs will able to put into effect. Take a look at the thread on NOs that I started, Germany and Japan will get 5-15 IPCs extra EACH TURN just by taking historically conquered territories. Maybe the idea is that US needs to be able to get HBMBs to counter that?

/axis_roll

I have to disagree.  Tech was SO MUCH a part of the second edition, that it basically broke the game IMHO.  A&A boiled down to a game of yahtzee then, get all 6’s and wallah!  You win the game.

Now I know this tech system is better, but I still do not like the randomness of the tech.

Well, I thought of AAR, not the 2nd ed, and esp. the LHTR set of rules. There were two ways of doing it I guess: either make you able to choose a specific tech and make them less strong (LHTR) or make them cheaper, random and stronger (AA50). I think the choice is really good in a sense, because you will see a lot of techs in the game, but worry that HBMB is too strong.

/IL

I’m pretty sure you can buy ICs in AA50. If you zoom in on the map on the BGG pic you can see this on the mobilization zone.

Fun to discuss strategy. Just some observation on the -41 J1 moves: they have 2 TRS and 1 DD at Marshall Islands. You can invade Netherlands East Indies with 1 TRS and 1 DD, but that is very vulnerable to attack from the UK India fleet. I guess the best way is to sink the India fleet with an attack by 2 FTRs from your CV off Formosa, and then send that DD into action at Hawaii. Then take NEI w. 1 TRS. Then you could send 2 FTR vs. Hawaii and 2 vs. West Coast. You would have 8 attack, 3 hits vs. 1 BB, 4 defence, 2 hits, OK odds. And the odds vs. West coast are good. Leaving your carriers off Hawaii is insane I think, you must send them to Marshall Islands. J1 strategy is to get as many IPCs as possible and not lose too much, and I think sending too many FTRs vs. China is dangerous. Phillippine Islands needs 1 BB, 1 CA and 2 TRS w. four land units to take with good odds, and even a FTR to be completely sure.

/axis_roll

Germany has only one IC, look at the board game geek pics! Krieghund’s point is only valid for Russia in that they can build in Karelia and Caucasus if Russia gets hit.

I’m beginning to wonder if the strong HBMB tech is a way to make techs more valuable and important in the game. If HBMB can be acquired, people will spend more money on tech and that maybe is what Larry wanted.

Now that I think about it, “Improved production” also makes Germany more resilient vs. bombers. If you have 10 as the prod limit, you can’t afford to lose many points, but if you have 12 you can afford 3-4 maybe. And you can build a new IC and use it to shelter your production, especially if it’s inland and protected by more AA-guns. Czech-Hungary has an IPC value of 2 I think, not worthwhile for an IC as it is, but if it’s prod limit is ‘4’ it could be a good thing. Any bombing run can be shot at twice if attacking Czech-Hungary, and it must be based in Norway or Libya to even reach it.

Ways for Germany to protect vs. BMB and esp. HBMB, in order of effectivity:
1. Radar, the best way, since it also protects against ordinary attacks and not just SBR, as well as vs. FTRs.
2. IC repair. Negates HBMB in SBR in halving the cost to repair.
3. Improved prod. (see above).
(4. Jet fighters? If they have an interceptor capability, and anyways they will be more rare since Germany probably won’t choose the Air/Naval tech chart that often. No-one knows how Jets will work in AA50 yet, unless Krieghund will enlighten us…)

Well, it’s there if we like it or not. I think this will influence strategy a lot. US can spend 10 IPCs per turn on tech and get a tech every second turn. This way they will get HBMB in the majority of games.

Maybe Germany and Japan will be more or less forced to do research to counter this risk. Germany to go for Radar and IC repair and Japan for Jets or HBMBs. Germany and Japan gets a lot of IPCs from national objectives, but they might be forced to put this into research if they will be able to stand up to the US in the later turns of the game!

/IL

All the ones that are without parenthesis are from posts by people from GENCON. They might not be totally correct (one territory might be askew here and there) but it’s probably correct most of it. Japan’s I read from a pic, as I wrote.

The ones in parenthesis are just my guesses if you take into account the objectives in the war itself. Krieghund helped me discard two of them, and most likely several more are wrong.

I don’t think there are any markings one the board for any objective. It’s all just on the chart for each power.

Well, if Jet fighters still defend on a ‘5’, I guess a gang of those could be a counter to HBMB, but again only partially.

4 jet fighters= cost 40 IPCs, defence 20.
3 HBMBs=cost 39 IPCs, attack 24.

And you still have to buy carriers for those jets! I would have been more happy with HBMBs attacking at 5 and doing two dice of SBR damage.

So, Krieghund, you’re teasing us…  :wink:

I think there’s something fishy going on with the HBMB tech. On land, “Radar” is a partial counter, as you can see:

BMB vs. AA
4 - 1/6X 4 = 3.33 effective attack

HBMB vs. AA
8 - 1/6X 8 = 6.66

HBMB vs. radar-AA
8 - 1/3X 8 = 5.33

But at sea, HBMB on their own would totally unbalance the whole tactical situation. If this has been countered in techs, you could have either of these;

“Supercarriers - carriers may now carry AA-guns”

“Jet fighters - when defending, fighters roll two dice”

/Krieghund

Thanks, edited the post! After we get it all corrected, we can start to discuss what all this will mean for the game strategies. I think this is the biggest change in the game, apart from the addition of Italy!

National objectives in AA50, what do we know? You get an IPC bonus each turn for holding a set of territories. This is the complete, confirmed list. Please feel free to join in the discussion of the meaning of this decisive element of AA50!

Germany

• Axis control of France+Northwestern Europe+Germany+Poland+Czechoslovakia/Hungary+Roumania/Bulgaria = 5 IPCs
• Axis control of at least three out of: Baltic States+East Poland+Belorussia+East Ukraine+Ukraine= 5 IPCs
• Axis control of either of: Karelia S.S.R. or Caucasus = 5 IPCs

Soviet Union

• Allied control of Archangelsk + no UK or US units on Soviet-controlled territories= 5 IPCs
• Allied control of at least three of the following: Norway, Finland, Poland, Bulgaria/Romania, Czechoslovakia/Hungary and/or Balkans= 10 IPCs.

Japan

• Axis control of Manchuria+Kiangsu [Shanghai region]+French Indo-China/Thailand=5 IPCs
• Axis control of at least four out of: Kwang-tung [Hong-kong region], Netherlands East Indies, Borneo, Phillippine Islands, New Guinea and/or Solomon Islands= 5 IPCs
• Axis control of at least one of: Hawaiian Islands, Australia or India =5 IPCs

UK

• Allied control of any Japanese 1941 at-start territory [Manchuria & Kiangsu are Japanese-controlled Chinese territories]= 5 IPCs.
• Allied control of Eastern Canada, Western Canada, Gibraltar, Egypt, Australia and Union of South Africa= 5 IPCs.
• Allied control of one of: France and/or Balkans=5 IPCs.

Italy

• Axis control of at least three out of: Egypt, Trans-Jordan, France and/or Gibraltar=5 IPCs.
• Axis control of Italy+Balkans+Morocco/Algeria+Libya+No enemy ships in Med sea zones, sz 13,14,15 [transports and submarines do not count]= 5 IPCs.

US/China

*Allied control of France = 5 IPCs
*Allied control of Phillippine Islands=5 IPCs
*Allied control of West US+Central US+East US= 5 IPCs
*Allied control of at least 3 of the following territories: Midway, Wake Island, Hawaiian Islands and/or Solomon Islands= 5 IPCs.

/Krieghund

Thanks for the correction, I edited my post. Are the tech specifications correct? I’m especially uncertain about HBMBs, at Smorey Swamp they wrote two dice in both attack and SBR but at BGG Ryan Hanson wrote that it’s only two dice in SBR!

That you choose chart when you succeed gives you some flexibility, but I guess Germany and Soviet Union will choose the Land/Production chart almost always. Japan would be the power that can make a choice, as “Improved production”, “Mechanized infantry” are techs that could bring the Tank factories in Manchuria and Kwangtung back from the dead and be as powerful as they were in AAR. Most of the time though, I think US, UK and Japan will pick Air/Naval chart. I don’t see how Italy can afford techs.

/axis_roll

Edited the post, hope it’s clearer!

PLEASE restrict this thread to getting the details right about the techs and then possible strategies. If you want to discuss house rules etc start another thread. Heavy Tanks are surely not there since they would have reported that from GENCON.If someone who was at GENCON remembers more exact details, can that be corrected?

I find Heavy bombers very strong, but again techs are random within a chart so that is of course balancing together with the anti-SBR techs “Radar” and “IC repair”.

As for Rockets, they can really be on both sides I guess, this is just what I think it’s like given information so far. Unless more of the old techs than “Combined bombardment” were cancelled, but there’s no indication of that.

Techs in AA50

Each researcher costs 5 IPCs, each means you get one roll for R&D per turn until you succeed, at which time you must buy new ones. (Not as before where IPCs spent on R&D only bought one roll.) Once you succeed you choose from one of two charts and then roll a die to determine which tech you actually get (not as in AAR where you research a specific tech). All techs are now 100% confirmed. What will these new tech rules mean for the game? Join the discussion!

Land/Production

Mechanized infantry- tanks may now carry 1 inf each 2 areas.

Advanced artillery- each art may now support 2 inf to attack at 2

Rockets- as per AAR, one die free SBR/turn, 3 range from AA-gun

War bonds- add one die of IPCs each turn

Improved production- each IC may now produce two more units per turn and one IPC repairs two points of IC damage.

Paratroopers- Each bomber may carry one infantry to a combat, and it may also still participate in the conventional attack in that territory, but not do an SBR.  When doing this, it must attack the first hostile territory that it enters on its flight path.  Paratroopers may retreat normally during combat, as long as other attacking land units are in the battle that are eligible to retreat.

Air/ Naval

Heavy bombers- attack and SBR roll two dice

Improved shipyards- Your sea units are now cheaper to build.  Use these revised costs: Battleship 17, Aircraft Carrier 11, Cruiser 10, Destroyer 7, Transport 6, Submarine 5

Super subs- subs now attack at ‘3’

Radar- AA-guns now fire at ‘2’

Long-range aircraft- fighters now have a move of ‘6’, bombers ‘8’

Jet fighters - fighters now attack at ‘4’

Hey, this forum has been around for some time, this one actually was linked to by Illustrious leader on another thread. And don’t believe the hype by Perry, he’s an old friend of mine…  :wink:

Seriously though I think we all can see Axis made some big mistakes in that GENCON game, which is good since then we know that the issue with balance might be quite good in the end. Right now I only have two worries:

1. Why isn’t Singapore included? I would’ve loved taking that place. But that’s minor, I guess Hong-kong will do…
2. Techs, are they balanced? Heavy bombers still seem to have game-breaking force and Germany can’t possibly stop that with another since it’s random. Rolling “Radar” doesn’t seem to be a very sure counterstrategy to those heavies.

All in all, this game is gonna be great! Can’t wait to get my hands on it.

Tech details in this thread;

http://aaswampform.forumandco.com/gen-con-anniversary-game-f23/i-played-the-anniversary-edition-t17.htm

According to one thread on the “smokey swamp” forum, one air/naval tech is heavy bombers and means you roll 2 dice when determining IPC damage. I think “Radar” is meant to counter that. Probably its on the land side of the production chart, which would be worthwhile for Germany to invest in since you could also get Mech Inf, for example.

Think of “Radar” as improved air defenses, improved AA-gun tech, day fighters and night fighters working together around the clock. At the strategic level, all this can be considered to be included in the tech.

All of G1 strategy should be directed to getting as many inf into Russia as possible. You should build at least 6 and up to 10 inf, and choose a CV, BMB or tanks if you want to. UK fleet will be able to avoid Italy and rebuild, so your subs should either fall back to North Sea or attack that BB. In North Sea they can lure in the British fleet, submerge after one round and then you can pound it with your air force and cruiser. The BB attack is a bit risky since if you fail and retreat with your FTR it is sitting duck in Norway and I suspect you can’t lose a single air unit as Germany. I suspect attacking the DD and TRS off Canada is the safest attack w 2 subs, and might be a standard opening.

UKR: taken but only with a token inf force w air support. Italy can then destroy any invading Russian force if necessary with sea power.
BAL+E POL: move in your tanks and inf, make sure not to lose more than 1-2 inf.
KAR: take on turn 2. You need 4-5 inf from BAL to take it.
EGY: crash that Afrika Korps into the Brits, along with inf+tank from France. Italy will mop up the remains, if any.

Next moves: starting moving your inf through Poland. The Russian campaign will be long and tough! Either build a CV and defend the baltic sea or use your navy to attack aggressively vs. UK. KAR and CAU are good targets for the first offensives, neither is directly connected to MOS so once you get them, they can be held and you get two ICs in the East. Expect to take CAU on turn 5 if you play well (counting the movement of that inf stack you bought on turn 1).

/Herr Arnulfe

So, Larry, that old sneaky guy, first said “no convoy zones” making all of us a bit annoyed and then got it back as well as Lend-lease in another way with the Archangelsk bonus, smart…  :wink: