Posts made by Lucifer

If you play with tech or NA’s, it’s a completely different game.
Imo it’s not an overall “big” difference between LL and reg dice, but the mindset might be.
It still is revised 4th. ed. right?
The Ukr attack R1 is a good example. This battle is just a minor detail, if you do it the right way, but the mindset and
thinking/philosophy during a game and throughout several games can be very different if you’re using reg dice or LL.

I agree with Switch who stated that he thinks 10%-20% of all games are decided by dice rolls.
I think it’s more like 15%-30% in reg dice games, but we all agree with that GENERALLY it is not luck that decides the
outcome of games in more than 50% of all games. It’s well below 50%, and even with reg dice, tech and NA’s, if
players play enough games (100 + ?) then the best player will be known by his stats.

Jennifer, you cannot do a test KJF game with tech and claim it’s not easy to win as axis if allies try a KJF.
With tech, one diceroll (one dice, 5 ipc!) may change the outcome of the whole game.
Not so with reg dice, generally … :)
Jen, you might wanna tell us why and how allies can win a KJF with tech, cause I don’t play tech, but if you do then
all discussions of tactics, opening moves, KJF, KGF is worthless.
I have bashed you in KJF threads, but I cannot know if a KJF could be a good overall strat as KGF with tech, and I don’t  wanna know either. With tech or NA’s you could be right, without tech and without NA’s, I know for sure that KJF is not as good as
KGF.
I have challenged you earlier Jennifer, if you wanna play with triplea, LL, no tech, axis bid 8, all ipc to G, one unit pr. TT.
All of my G bid goes to Afr.

Generally speaking, if allies let G have afr then in most cases axis win.

The UK sub and trans in Australia have no place in my overall strat, so might as well use it to weaken Jap a little bit.
The Borneo attack is a tricky one, 4 ipc is very tempting, and leaving the AC in Philli to block for Jap retake on J1.
Afr is much more important so one has to look at the map, if G didn’t attack Anglo then Afr is secure, but in most
cases allies should land in Afr with both US+UK. rnd 1.
Sometimes, to take 2 inf from Aus+NZ and move the trans to Afr can be a smart move.
I won’t do this if the sub attack went wrong…

As Jap I don’t care if UK got NG, I wanna kill those trans, but the 1 ipc is no big deal.
Landing the India ftr on the US AC is not a good move imo. I use it in Afr, or with DD in sz59, sometimes I land
that ftr in Bury. The India ftr can land in Cauc together with UK bmr, and 2 ftr from london, (UK1 to WRU) might do a 4 air units
attack to the G med fleet in UK2/UK3, before axis merge their fleets, this is something I usually hate as allies.
If all 3 ftrs land in WRU then they’re set for a baltic wipeout UK2, presuming G didn’t buy any naval units in sz5.  :wink:

To have the US trade Italy and UK trading WE means birdy for allies  :-)

@Cmdr:

For all of you who think you can stop a KJF easily I make this challenge:

To keep extremes out of the game, it should be Low Luck
To balance the game Germany should be given 7 IPC for equipment, this is the mid-point of the average which is 6 to 8 IPC and generally goes to Germany anyway.
To allow others to follow the game, the in house dicey will be used for all battles.
To allow others to follow the game, ABattlemap will be used to track the games.

Note:  Definition of KJF is the reduction of Japan to the Japan Territory ONLY or the conquering of the Japan territory.  Either effectively ends Japan as a treat for the duration of the game, in most circumstances.

How easy it is to stop a KJF will depend, but it will always be easier than stopping a KGF.
What I would do if I were you, Jennifer, is first to (try) beat all the best players in your playgroup with whatever strat that
will accomplish this goal, and then you can claim that the KJF better than KGF, as in: KJF wins more games than KGF.
But the fact is that with the current revised map TT’s, a KFJ will always be less effecient than KGF.
If you say KJF is more fun than KGF, fine. I don’t agree beacause imo it’s not fun to lose, but if you are winning more games than you
lose anyway, I guess KJF can be more fun sometimes, or maybe even very funny in most games…?
If your goal is to reduce Jap ofc it can be done, and has been done. But reducing Jap is itself pointless. The goal is
to win the game, or…?

@ncscswitch:

To be honest Jen, I am not going to accept that restriction on a bid.

I won;t go $7 to Japan, but as I posted, I often use $1 or $2 for Japan.

I also will NOT play Low Luck as it is a completely different game from ADS.

You want to roll the dice and accept a game from someone against whom you have NEVER won a game and test your strat, then go ahead and accept MY challenge…
$7 bid.  Not more than $2 to Japan.  ADS.
I will do a “traditional” opening with the Axis, until the Allies SHOW KJF.
Examples of showing KJF:

• USSR sends offensive units toward Japan on R1
• UK builds an IC in India, Australia, etc.
• UK sends RAF to Russia R1
• UK takes Borneo or other Island territory UK1
• UK does fleet consolidation in SZ30, or skips Egypt Counter.
• USA drops significant income in the Pacific.
• USA builds an IC in Asia

I’ll be using TripleA, and since you do not, that means in-site Dicey, force summaries and land/cash summaries each move.

Put up, or shut up!
:evil:

Some of those opening moves are standard by many decent players also within a strict KGF.
Should have a good defenition of KJF so we’re all familiar with what KJF is in details.
As I mentined before, KJF may also be a KJF even if Berlin falls before Tokyo.
IF Jap is significantly reduced by rnd 4-5-6-8, then it’s a KJF.
And it cannot be because of stuipid gameplay by the axis.
To take mainland TT’s, island TT’s from Jap and hold it for several rnds then it’s KJF.
US must build a lot (imo 90% + ipc) in sz 55, else it’s not KJF, it’s not KJF if Jap skips pearl, and US builds everything in EUS, but uses the remaining fleet in pac to disturb Japan. That is slow Japan down…
What determines a KJF or KGF is how allies are spending and moving which units during an entire game.

@ncscswitch:

If Germany is building INF THAT heavilly, then you have lost the offensive against Russia and are trading much closer to the vest as Germany.  That means Russia poses a greater threat, and that Germany has to fight harder just to stay in the 30’s for income.

You cannot BOTH build all INF AND trade at the Archangel/WR/Caucuses frontier turn after turn as Germany.  Sorry, it just does NOT happen  unless MASSIVE dice fracks come into play early in the game (or unless the Allies are playing poorly).

What games are you playing?

I hardly see G trade Arch, except rnd 1, never WRU, and when G starts trading cauc thats bad for allies.

It takes longer time for allies to get fully functional for KJF.
And KGF is not easy by any means. Not if the axis player is as good as the allie player.

A couple of days ago I actually witnessed a real KJF in the lobby!!!

Tokyo was captured and held before Berlin. I think the allie player was better, and ppl told me that allies had a big lead, but then he switched to KJF, and Germany had all of caucus moscow etc. Game went on for about 12-13 rnds and I only saw the last few rnds. I call it freak show…  :mrgreen:
That KJF player is not a top player in the lobby, but he is among the better ones.
And he readily admitted that he didnt use this strat often, and when he faced good opponents they wouldn’t “let him” do a KJF.
The KJF strat is inferior to KGF by efficiancy, but I it can be more fun when it succeds.

The KJF only works when the allie player is way better, or dice favorable for the allies.

Personally, if UK succeds with every UK1 attack in Pac, I would kill the UK units before attempting pearl.
Maybe pearl light, but US dont have any ground units which can occupy any TT’s, UK trans would be my priority nr.1.
The UK sub is no big threat, the most important is to do the most damage J1. by J2-J3 and further, Jap should not spread to thin ofc, but the J1 attacks are really important. To have Russia take Manch, US take either Fic, Kwang or Manch is bad, UK should not be allowed to take Fic, but UK might take back India for 1 rnd, only.
Jap is so strong in the beginning, and only bad dice can f…k  up a good Jap start, except poor judgement that is…

Not attacking China J1???
Are you serious?

@newpaintbrush:

UNLESS u get ur opponent good and drunk, of course.   :roll:

Have u ever tried to play opponents who are high on crack?

I’m pretty sure that u also have played A&A while u were high on crack…

@Romulus:

A&A is really different with LL and ordinary dice.
A lot of things change. Tactics, logistics and Strategies have to take in account the LL, so you ave to adjust and adapt playing style.

It is not a question of better or not. It is a question fo difference.

The issue about LL specifically belongs in specific thread but I do not agree that strats have anything to do with
LL or reg dice.
If someone plays with techs, NA’s or VC regularly then imo this is an imortant difference, i.e. in some competitions
they play with a set amount of time and VC’s that means completely different gameplay than the usual domination rules
most ppl use both in the lobby and in this forum (I guess).
KJF strat or opening moves are not very different between LL and reg dice.
The ukr attack R1 is a standard by most players, although u can use 2 tanks and everything else that can reach, this is usually enough with LL, not so obvious with reg dice, but this is a minor issue imo.
A KJF will not work better or worse with LL or reg dice. Same as the US shuck-shuck from WCA to Afr.
As already mentioned, strafing is a completely different aspect with LL, but general strats are not.
I can’t see that logistics, which is one of the most crucial elements for all players, have anything to do with either LL or reg dice settings.

In almost every game I’ve seen in the lobby, and a few games i played against a friend, Jap has
about 40-49 ipc production.
I cannot remember a single game either watched or played, in which Jap has been reduced to that amount
Jennifer is claiming. But I do not doubt that this has happened in several of her games.
By KJF I define it as building everything from LA, or/and taking all Jap islands which have any production
value (except Tokyo).
In another thread there were several players who were claiming that KJF was used regularly, but not
the most used overall strat.
If more than one out of ten players use KJF more than one out of 10 games I’m really suprised.
Or maybe the KJF is mainly used in games with tech, NA’s, and VC’s.
LL or reg dice doesn’t matter much for this strat.
I played lots of multiplayer with both reg dice and LL, but still hardly any KJF which I can remember.
Oh yes, 2-3 games in which ended with terrible quarreling by my behalf, and I even tried it myself once,
that was when I made up my mind about the KJF.
This happened in the very beginning I started playing revised, and I have only played very few games f2f, still
I’m newb, cause I’ve only been playing for a few months, so maybe the KJF is more often used than I realize.
But I have fairly good overview of what strats the top (lobby) players are using, and learning from them is as
important as learning from own mistakes and victorys.

If someone let me (as axis) have moscow, then u can have all the islands u want. I don’t need them if
G or J got caucus and moscow.
And I ask again, why have I not seen this strat tried and succed in the lobby, is it because all lobby players are
inferior?

@newpaintbrush:

There’s always a regional difference as to preferred strategies.

However, the level between the two playgroups are different.

Which playgrup do you believe has the highest level??

Another difference between the lobby and this forum, is that (my impression) in the forum, most players and/or (?) the
top players, play with reg dice, and sometimes even tech. NA’s and VC is another issue.
But the LL or reg dice is a significant difference in playing style.
The top lobby players uses LL. There a few good players who prefers reg dice, but the major majority of the
best 1vs1 lobby players only plays with LL setting.
Someone who can give me a good answer to the cause of the differences?

The one I know best is the triplea warclub bid placement rules, which states 1 unit pr. TT.
All ipc spent before game starts. Ipc which is not spend can be used afterwards.
This variant is also used with bids down for axis, a player who wants to play axis may bid 10,
the other player bids 9, and down to zero, sometimes.
With 1 unit pr. TT the sides should be about equal strength with 8-9 bid for axis.

There are other variants, which I’m not familiar with.

Jennifer, I can’t remember ever have seen a game where Jap has crumbled by rnd. 7-8.
And I’m not the most experienced player here, but 100% of games lost as axis, Germany is reduced and cannot
threat anyone, Jap cannot take moscow, (even with 42-45 ipc) Russia’s too strong so axis lost…
If someone tried your KJF strat against me I’m afraid that I might beat players who are generally better than me.

By no disrespect, I think you like to tell fairytales.

IMO a KJF, if Jap does pearl, is even less likely to be a good strat, then if Jap skips pearl, which in most games
i’ve seen seems to be standard J1. Some do pearl light, others attack pearl heavy, but I regard it as a standard opneing move J1. Maybe because the US might cause problems, I’m saying it cannot.
But without the US pearl fleet, US have to build more pure naval assets for 1 more rnd than if Jap skips pearl.
And with or without J1 pearl attack, I still don’t see US go island hopping if not for some strange reason the J players let US do want it wants…

The siberian insertian, I have only seen this strat in very few games.
I don’t have any higher regards to this strat than the island hopping US strat.

As this forum have a lot of different players from all over the world, and also some posters play in a local
playgroup, and others (like me i.e.) are lobby players, it would suprise me if the best lobby players
are much better players than the best forum players, and vice versa.
But I’m just a poor noob so wat do I know…?

http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki

@ncscswitch:

The typical KJF that folks use here is not a “Siberian Insertion” (landing US forces in SFE).

Island hoping, or a quick rush to SZ60 seem to be more common (with Island Hoping being the most common)

Why is it that I almost never see this strat played in the triplea lobby??
I have never played by forum so I can’t tell where the best players are, as someone said, the best forum players
often uses KJF (island hopping), the best lobby players never uses this strat.
And I would think it’s strange if the level between the two “playgroups” are any different.
Anyone who has a good answer?

I would challenge a girl for a game of A&A revised edition.
Not low luck of course…… 
The loser will be totally dominated, winner takes all…  :mrgreen: