Ac ouple questions I had in another post but didn’t mark clearly.
Can I send three fighters in a zone where I know the only landing spot is a carrier knowing that a fighter will get shot down during the battle?
Can a bomber take place in an amphibious assault after a naval battle? The rules clearly state that a fighter cannot, but say nothing about bombers being unable to?
Thanks
Okay, last reply to my own post promise. Even though this move will probaly end up sucking, it might be cool in one of those bid games you were talking about. Getting an extra trannie and a few INF with Japan could either allow to push forward with more, or do this move and still land and take back Manchuria.
Sorry to keep replying to my own message but it wasn’t well thought through and may still not be.
Conditions:
Premise:
Since the allies have no troop production in Asia and Russia can ill afford to stream more than a few infantry east per turn, a one turn delay will not prove too detrimental to Japan as, Japan ramping up its production will not win the war anyways. In order for the axis to win the U.S. must be disrupted. A one turn delay in Japanese conquest is worth disrupting U.S.
Negatives:
Japan will lose most of it’s air power in Asia
Positives:
Japan can out produce and pour into Asia anyways.
J1:
Sub, 2BB, AC, 3 Fighter, Bomber, TP with 1 INF from Japan and 1INF from wake attack U.S. HAwaiin fleet. and land at Hawaii.
Average loses (1.5/less if Sub hits): Fighter/Submarine
You will always lose at least a fighter here (Kamikazee)
The Bomber can attack in the land battle at least from what I understand. Lands in Wake.
TP from Philapeans grabs 1 INF and 1 INF from Carolina and drops in Wake.
This TP is now out of U.S. bomber range since Hawaii has been taken.
Since you now have four landable infantry at Western, the U.S. is forced to protect, or retake with either case being a misdirection of there forces.
If they protect, you have several options.
The TP at Wake is within range for a landing in Asia on the next turn (threaten U.S. shores then double back).
-It is within range of Alaska, force more U.S. forces to be misdirected.
-It is within range of Mexico, force more U.S. forces to be misdirected.
-It can reinforce Hawaii, if you choose to restation Hawaiin forces forward, then double back to Wake out of Bomber range.
-It can drop south to New Zealand, and pick up more island INF on way back
The Main navy can double back, land, or push towards the Atlantic to disrupt Allied shipping.
By pushing through,
The idea here is simply to suicide the Japanese Navy and large portion of teh airforce in an attempt to destroy both the Pacific navy, Airforce and R1 TP builds of the U.S. while misdirecting land forces, buying Germany considerable time
Although the U.S. can still land in Africa they do so considerably weaker.
By dropping 2 INF in MExico, 1INF in Panama, and 1 INF in BRazil, we can force the U.S. to either lose 7 I.P. including Hawaii or have to misdirect forces.
Yes this leaves JApan weak in Asia without it’s airforce to carry the day, but ramped up Japan can’t win. Germany needs time. It’s also not like the Allies have ways of getting more units in Asia anyways.
Also pushing into the Atlantic is an option. One can simply, retreat the Wake TP back to Japan and land in MAnchuria. 1Hawaii INF could swing south to New Zealand and this TP could pick up island INF on way back.The rest of the fleet could then return netting you one lost fighter.
In essence, since Japan ramping up doesn’t win the game, would Japan pushing troops forward to force a U.S. misdirection, be worthwhile. With four INF pushing forward, he has to guard with something, or allow you to take (10 IPC) and then retake. In either case it makes for a weaker Africa landing.
The essential task here was to try and find a way to exploit the fact that by UK building a navy on turn 1 the U.S. has committed it’s fighters. Japan has foreknowledge of this. Is there an aggresive posture they can take with the U.S. to exploit this?
Hmm this might be made effective, if Russia draws back into the YAkut stack, so that you wouldn’t need a TP on turn one to retake Manchuria.
Hmmm, unfortunately that would ceed MAnchuria with no retaliation on turn 1. Perhaps this more radical idea would work. Same situation. Use only one TP. Pearl harbor and take HAwaii. On turn two, take Panama and move JApanese navy into Atlantic, to disrupt U.S. entry into the war. As holding Panama is not important and simply taking it forcing a U.S. to go out of its way to take it back. You could swing that one unit down to BRazil for 3 I.P. The idea here would be just to disrupt U.S. shipping as long as possible in the Atlantic, suiciding your navy knowing that you can operate off the 3 TP and 1 TP without support ships in Asia. Here the allies are kindof put in a hedge situation. The brits just wasted their money on a fleet while keeping the majority of the german airforce intact, or the U.S. just got all its TP sunk without requiring the use of the German Airforce and has infantry out of place.
HAwaii could also serve as a Bomber runway for strategic bombing runs on U.S. that they could never retake unless they rebuilt their wetsern navy.
Germany opens by destroying the British navy.
England rebuilds navy waiting for U.S. to rebase it’s two fighters.
As Japan could it be wise here to “Over Pearl” and move Trannies to Hawaii with Inf. Purchase 3 Trannie on turn 1 to make up for trannies moving east.
Here the U.S. Western is within striking distance. If the U.S. moves the fighters to rebase on English carrier, they cannot counterstrike the approaching Japanese navy. If they do not counterstrike the Japanese navy they may get landed on so need to build INF in western or move INF from Eastern to Western. If they do this, this delays their force movement to Africa by one turn.
If they do reinforce, then you could move the TP from Hawaii back and drop the INF off in Manchuria next turn while taking the TP from WAke down to New Zealand. Said threat also prevents U.K. from pulling troops back form Austalia.
Any thoughts silly, or wouldone turn forebearance against the Russians not be worth buying one turn of forbearnace of the U.S. against GErmany.
The only bad thing I dislike about not even contending for africa is that the U.S. no longer has to divert resources their which means they can land and take Finland/Norway instead and buy a few extra bombers to assist the Brits in bombing the mac-cheesenits out of Germany. Typically in our games, Britian has an IC in India pumping out 3 INF and purchases a Bomber everyturn. The U.S. can also purchase a bomber everyturn and if Japan is not thretening in the Pacific can just pile on the strategic bombing. 6 Bombers is 21 IC a turn with a likely loss. Thats the one thing I really dislike about not using the GErman airforce to attack the BRitish Navy. They can support U.S. landings witha few troops, pump oput enough INF in India to hold it long enough or deter Japanese forces south, and bomb the crap of Germany. Maybe my AA guns just never hit, but not-contending in Africa usually leads to a crapload of bombs falling on teh fatherland.
Scratch this. We play with ahouse rule were Industial centers are limited to territorial I.P. Hence Russia cannot drop all its troops directly on the front line. Anyways, I’m changing it up.
What I do now, is attack the BRitish home navy while ignoring the trannie in EAstern Canada. Converge on the Battleship with two infantry on trannie, leaving the submarine for next turn. 1 INF goes to Gibraltar. 1 INF goes to north Africa. I purchase 10 INF and save the TP for turn two along with a AC. This works with the home rule of KArelia limit. This rule essentially gives GErmany breathing room on even numbered turns unless Russia invests more heavily in armor.
The Russians can invade Turkey to allow for British bombers to land, so that they may attack the GErman fleet even if GErmany grabs Gibraltar, North Africa, and Syria. Probably right about Spain. Just a thought. I have seen the turkey invasion in an actual game though.
Yo, hah, hah, hah. I figured out why I think you guys are crazy and you guys think I am crazy. We have played with a house rule for so long I thought it was a standard rule. We play were all production centers are limited to the I.P. value of the territory hence Russia cannot plop down massive stacks at KArelia. They have to march the the bulk of the ground troops up. Good rule. Makes the Russian/German war more messy and doesn’t leave GErmany with -5auto. Hence they can afford to contend for Russia and Africa. Also you will have some stalemate turns which leaves more room for tech development to break open the war. My bad. Seriously, We’ve played that way so long I thought it was a classic rule.
Okay take that back they can land at Gibraltar. So I need to invade spain on turn one, so that if they land in Gibraltar I rumble in with couple tanks.
The Uk does not have a navy after round 1 ever. It’s gets blown up by the GErman’s round one every game. How do they land in Africa without a Navy?
My BB and sub are at Gibraltar. That three away from GB. No where to land. The TP is 4 away from GB. The only landing lone is Anglo-Egypt Sudan. Not the best landing zone.
I spend 8 ipc’s extra… (2 trannies and 3 inf to your 1 tran and 5 inf…) Uk can send troops to Africa as wel, or you just send 6 inf to Norway and 2 to Africa, whatever you want, but you can’t see that, because you are rather shrotsighted…
UK has no navy by turn 2. If it wants to build a new one, it has to save up and the U.S. has to send fighter support. We’re now talking turn 3-4 and they don’t get to build any bombers. Germany bridges troops every turn from southern Europe into Africa. Good luck keeping up with that while shiping 6 INF to Norway. The U.S. can only ship troops every other turn to Africa or offset half forces. Germany “bridges” every turn. If I was dumb and just threw everything I had at Russia despite you dropping stupid amounts of INF in Norway, yeah you would would beat me. But I’m guessing I would just take all of Africa while Japan took all of Asia and rush towards an easy I.P. victory. The way you look at it, Germany throws everything at Russia. The way I look at it, Germany makes reasonable incursions into Africa and Russia forcing the Allies to divide their forces while Germany has relative flexibility do to maximal placement.
Germany doesn’t need Russia. The game doesn’t hinge on Russia. The game hinges on I.P. swing whether that be in Africa, Asia, Russia, whatever.
Japan gets +10 of Russia prod and Germany can hold border with Russia, possibly exchanging Ukraine back and forth.
That leaves Russia with 14 I.P.
Germany gets +9 of Britains prod with French West going back and forth with U.S.
That leaves Britian with 21 I.P. without any bombing runs in them.
Japan gets +4 of U.S. prod with no flip flop
That leaves U.S. with 32
They need 4 more to win. Not that tough. Great you turned Russia into a fortress. Woopde doo. If you turn Russia into a fortress you just wasted a bunch of units, because I just will ignore yor fortress and soak up I.P. you failed to protect.
Allies 67 I.P
Axis 80 I.P., better position, better flexibility.
And you bought more TP than you can use effetcively thereafter thus pigeonholing your self and losing maximal usage for turns 4-6. Is that that hard ot understand?
How could the Axis not win. Africa+Asia is more than enough I.P. to win.
I will stop arguing with you because you have obviously never played an Axis player who has any sense. You spend 16 extra I.P. to ship 2 extra inf on turn 3 and then pigeonhole your strategy by requiring a full investment of 30 IP on inf ot make use of those transports. Germany obviously isn’t losing Africa to the allies if your shipping 8 INF to Norway. How could they be?
Lets run through this again. I buy 1 TP and 5 infantry on turn one. I move 2 Infantry from Philapeans and 2 from Japan on turn one. I then move 6 infantry on turn two. On turn three I move 6 Infantry and an arms. No two turn delay and more units faster. i.e. optimal
J1) 4 inf to Manch (from Phil and 1 from jap and 1 from wake) leaving 2 inf and a tank left.
J2) 6 inf and a tank to Manch (5 from Japan and one from the other island) => 4 trannies full!
If I just buy inf on J2 to fill up my trannies I will ship 8 inf to manch on J3.Outcome. 4 inf + 6 inf + 1 tank + 8 inf= 18 inf and 1 tank
Your total sum will be: 4 inf + 6 inf + 6 inf + 1 tank= 16 inf and 1 tank
Easy math I have 2 inf more than you do by turn 3…
You stated exchange lands with germany… Exchange means taking with as less units as possible… So you just need 3-6 inf and some fighters to EXCHANGE the territory. If you take Ukr or Cau with significant force with germany you will leave EEU open for an attack… So yes you exchange cau and Ukr with as less units as possible so you don’t need your arms…
You also have depopulated islands, need to spend 30 I.P. per turn to fill the five TP after turn three preventing you from buying planes or anything other than INF really. Optimal means max infantry in tempo while maintaing balance towards turns 4-6. Congradulations you shipped the tank one turn earlier and had tow more inf on turn three. The price you pay is measured in what you purchase afterwords. You have completely pigeonholed your strategy.
I did play enough really good axis players and allies players… But you are just laughable… My tran will be away for 1 turn while your inf is still waiting to get transported so it takes 2 turns before your inf is in place… Like I said on J2 you will have 2 inf and a tank or 4 inf waitng to get transported… If you are still thinking 1 tran and 5 inf is optimal play I will stop arguing with you because it won’t help. 2 trannies and 3 inf is optimal… 3 trannies is a little bit of a gambit but can pay off huge.
Okay….ahem. I move a tranny form Carolina and use one form Japan to transport 4 inf on turn 1. I purchasew 1 tranny. I then move all the infantry I purchased on the immediately next turn. How are my inf waiting aorund. I’m sorry but you clealy haven’t even considered what I am saying. They is no delay. You have 2 TP to transport 2 INF from Philipines and 2 From Japan leaving 1 INF on Japan. Add the five you bought. You now have 3 TP to transport 6 inf on turn two. So you get 10 inf to the mainland by turn 2? Obviously you are misisng the point that instead of moving my transports off out the way to islands that I have all three transports at Japan. Thats 6 inf. Thats all the inf I have in Japan. No waiting. None. No waiting. 10 inf by turn 2. No waiting. No delay. 10 inf by turn two. No delay. No waiting. Am I clear here there is no waiting. Set up the board and try it.
Let me repeat it. Move a transport from CArolinia picking up INF at Philipeans. Move INf from Japan. Place TP. Place 5 INF to go with 1 INF that is sitting there. On turn two move all 6 INF. That’s 10 INF by turn two. No waiting. No delay. I repeat there is no delay. There are no infantry waiting to be shipped. I didn’t waste my entire production and two turns to land INF. I just landed the maximum amount possible over two turns. Is that that hard to understand.
“The US player helps the Russian player from the other side… Yes dropping in Norway is not a joke, because the inf will be in Karelia next turn and after that they will be pretty soon in Russia itself and in Novobrisk… In turn 3 I will be dropping 8 inf a turn to help the Russian player to defend either Karelia or move them to Russia.”
This is hilarious. Africa? I’m guessing you have an A.C. to guard those transports and fighters that you restored after throwing them on a suicide mission against the Japanese fleet too?
“The US has more money to replace their airforce than the Japs have to replace their Ships. (You need your ships even after J3-4 to conquer Australia and NZ or to go to Africa… Sure you need tempo as an Axis player, but not oo much, because you will overstretch your supply lines (infantry wise) and you will wear your forces down…”
Umm… the Japaness in Africa…? Why would they do that? You obvisouly aren’t shipping troops to Africa which means the Germans can dominate it all by themselves. Who gives a rat’s arse about Russia when you can just pick up 10-11 I.P. unhindered in Africa. It takes how many turns for the Japaness to get to Africa?
Australia is out of the way and worth 2 I.P. Asia is worth a whole bunch and right on your doorstep.