Posts made by kyrial

I would only build an IC in Egypt after the USA retakes the continent. It’s not a bad idea because it lets you threaten Southern Europe, but you also have to make sure that you have enough defense on Africa because by the time Americans can get there in force keep in mind the Japanese are also probably coming to Africa en masse.

Two corrections to the previous post by me:

#1 It was the Kwangtung Army, not the Army of Manchuria

#2 You’re right, TG Moses VI, the Soviets did thrash them about pretty well during the roughly 2 week of fighting. I think my problem was that I was accidentaly confusing the fact that until the Soviet invasion on 9th August, the Kwangtung Army was still a large force to be reckoned with and it is true that after the war the Japanese government had to issue special orders that basically made what was going to happen “not surrendering” so there would be no shame.

I looked up some statistics on it and found that the Japanese lost almost 600,000 prisoners plus 80,000 killed/wounded in almost 2 weeks. The Soviets lost 8,200 killed and like 20,000 wounded. Very good site on this is

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1986/RMF.htm

Anyways my apologies to anyone I managed to confuse on this one. I’ll stick to mostly commenting on the European theatre from now on :oops:

You can never count out those stealthy Germans.

Oh and they are quite stealthy :P

It was actually nuetral with Russia (jp) until Aug 13 1945

Yes, and at that point the Soviet’s decided to end the neutrality… coincidentally right before Japan was to surrender :roll:

On a side note, the Army of Manchuria was actually quite large… much larger than is represented in game. This army really never experienced defeat and so many of their soldiers were loathe to lay down arms at the end.

Historiclly on trn1 Russia took ukraine SSR… I have never agreed with RR Your not playing WW2… Just making the axis look unreal, Superhuman etc.

Well, historically that’s true… the real reason behind RR is simply to try and counter-balance the advantage the allies have over the axis in the game. I mean historically the Japanese didn’t take all of China or the Soviet Far East either.

RR is a suggestion, albeit one that has made its way into the mainstream, but you don’t have to play it. Some people play bids as a way to kind of even out the game.

It’s no fun to fight an uphill battle the whole game; the game should be more about strategy and seeing who can outmanouver the other side, taking into consideration a little bit of luck (the dice) which anyways represents the traditional “fog of war” affecting things.

Personally I don’t think RR makes the Axis look superhuman and I’ll be honest it’s still tough for the Axis to win if you just play RR.

Yeah, that’s a good move too… I like that because it gives the Russians an incentive to get some tanks up and running as well (they’ll need them for any eventual offensives anyways) and especially to someone who is just learning to play Russia it’s nice to let them go on the attack every now and then (spoilers mostly) and this is an incentive to get the tanks up.

My only worry with any additional rules is to not get to the point where it’s over-specialised. You know, because the game itself is not (and this has been pointed out on the boards) an exact re-creation of WWII. A lot of the fun of the game is the sheer simplicity of the pieces as well as the stragegy in getting the maximum effectiveness out of each move.

But anyways none of the rules here do that… and it is sure that there need to be some rules to make the game more even.

5. Rockets and Rockets. Germany gets rockets and better fighters on the third turn to represent breakthroughs in weapons development.

Another possible option on this line is to give German tanks the ability to defend at 3 because traditionally German tanks had much better armour and could take hits that would have put US and UK tanks out of the picture. This also spices things up because it gives the Germans the possibility of invading knowing that tanks might make up some of the defensive force afterwards and not just be like INF on the defense.

Just throwing the idea on the table :D

Thus, KAR will be w/o aa protection from SBR for the entire turn. So if Germany performs any SBR’s (which any German player would), Russia may possibly lose the 5 ipcs that it would have cost to just buy the aa itself in the first place.

Normally after G1 the bomber isn’t going after anything other than a stray transport if the allies are not careful enough and leave one open for attack… which means an SBR is almost a gimme against an unguarded Russian IC. Russia has enough economic problems in the beginning anyways and you figure a decent German hit against them will cost 1-2 INF.

BUT on the other hand, if you could establish a decent defense in the east and get the AA guns there, Japan’s entire early offensives against Asia are almost entirely reliant on air power (in my games Japan doesn’t get tanks rolling until an IC on the mainland and then still until after enough transports are in the Japan SZ) so that could cost Japan a plane here or a plane there and they have to wonder is it worth it?

Hehe it’s oddball moves like this that keep the game interesting…

Yeah, it’s not too great of a move especially with the potential waste of Soviet armour which is, as has already been said on this post, one of the most important parts of the Russian game esp for any sort of spoiling attacks…

One time on a similar note, I took the German trns from the med and quietly sailed it down the coast of Africa, ignored by my friend, picked up a tank in South Africa and promptly took over Brazil :D

Naturally he was quite ticked off and it didn’t last too long there but I got an immense kick out of it and had I thought it out and put maybe another 2 INF there and a fighter and later an IC, it could have been a real pain in the butt (this is all purely speculation off the top of my head)…

Something I’d probably never do again but nonthless fun to watch the American who now has to devote time to sending transports south instead of north to UK hehehe

Drumstix, my only question is how you intend to take out the Japanese economy by attacking in the Pacific? Looking at it from an IPC perspective, Japan (proper) + Manchuria + Kwantung + Indochina = 17 IPC out of the 25 Japan starts with. The only major pacific objective for a US player as far as IPC goes is the Phillipines with 3. Most islands are worth 1 or none.

Given that a good Japan player is going to expand into Asia starting with J1 it means that the overwhelming majority of Japanese economic production is going to lie in the mainland. Looking at it this way if one is able to remove Japan entirely from the mainland you have taken away about 36% of their economy. Taking away every island possible will reduce them only 32% and it takes a LOT to take every island as far as you have to build a large fleet to protect the transports.

My take as the German player is as follows: even with the UK going all out to help Russia (once their economic base is cut in 1/3 from losing Africa), if the US doesn’t send troops over to Europe I will overwhelm Russia eventually. Plus usually the US is the one to re-take Africa and #1 keep the German IPC base from hitting 40 :D and #2 restore the UK so they can produce more than 5 INF a turn :)

When I first started playing I too used to go after Japan with a US fleet (it’s a very American thing to do… too many John Wayne movies) but you had also better build that fleet in the East USA because if you build it in the West on J2 Japan will come in with the Pearl Harbour fleet (if they went that route) and smash the new fleet. And if the USA didn’t send over the fighters to the UKSZ, that makes the Luftwaffe planes very happy for G2 :D

I usually also have a difficult time finding enough Russian INF to send to the east to counter Japan, I don’t know where I would find the xtra to send to India… maybe a plane to discourage Japan on J1 from going for India but in games I play if I play as Russia I expect all to understand that I’ll be selfish for the most part (my troops are for Russian defense only; I’ll launch a spoiler attack if really need be) and if Russia is my ally I don’t expect any help from them except not to lose their territory.

This all depends of course on my mood for the day but…

I like playing as Germany for the following reason: usually after the initial moves (knocking out the UK army, taking Africa) Germany is expected to turtle up and wait for Japan to break the game open, force the Russians to turn east, pressure the US west coast and divert resources there, etc… usually it’s a very “waiting game”.

However unlike my beginning days where I couldn’t wait to throw the Panzers into a win-win battle (and subsequently lose them all the next turn), as Germany these days it’s more of a game of keeping the Panzers in reserve and launching quick hits. Usually massing about 7-9 and launching an attack against Russia to take out 5+ INF, even at a similar loss to me. Keep chipping away waiting for the moment when Russia is weak enough to really stab outwards. Also, looking for that stray transport and hitting it up with a bomber/ fighter.

There’s a lot out there for the German player but it’s not as obvious as Japan. With Germany you have to work for every inch of soil. I like the challenger.

It’s a good thought because let’s face it in the beginning Japanese offense is supplied solely through air… i wouldn’t though and i’ll give my reasons:

First, it’s five IPCs that means another infantry and in the beginning Russia needs every INF that she can get a hold of. And really, in turn 1 it costs Russia effectively 2 INF because instead of standard 8 INF buy she would only be able to do 6 INF + AA gun so you really lose 2 INF. That can make a big difference this early in the game.

Second, as TG Moses VI said the odds aren’t with you on any single attack… I would say unless Japan massed air but usually it’s just 1 fighter here, 2 there, maybe 1 fighter and a bomber… but if they were to send say 4 air on one attack then maybe it could be justified for that battle alone…

Third unless you’re playing with scorched earth if Japan gets it it’s a free AA gun they can put down in Manch or India or wherever they have an IC. Though this latter is kind of an after-the-fact issue.

It’s an interesting thought but I think on R1, R2 especially you want every single possible INF you can get… at least that’s my thought on the issue.

If you do play that scenerio one time do post and let us know how it turned out.

Point taken TG Moses on the not wanting to split up the Russian army. Admittedly it is better served being one and able to punch into German territory at will.

The reason I split things is because I view the game in terms of pure economics… IF you can simply keep Axis on the defensive, eventually you win out as Allies. So for my play as Ally it’s not as important to mount an offensive as Russia against Germany but simply to get enough troops surrounding Germany so that she can no longer expand. Basically it gets to the point where all she controls is Germany, WEu, SEu and Eeu and maybe Ukr (if trading off as a dead zone).

Controlling Germany is easier than Japan because you have more forces and more local ability to get defensive positions (via UK troops to Karelia and US troops as well) and to threan WEu if the Germans aren’t honest there. But with Japan, US forces are far, far away and likely you have no navy (everything to Europe), plus even if you did there’s nothing in the pacific that will really put a dent in the Japanese economy except maybe Phillipines. And UK unless you have IC on India in T1 you don’t have local forces and anyways you should concentrate most of you efforts against Germany (tho that part is up to personal discretion and gamestyle).

Which leaves Russia as the only force who can get large swaths of infantry to confront the Japanese within a few turns and can keep pumping out 8-9 INF a turn against the Japanese (getting a tank every now and then to launch the limited offensive).

Once Axis can no longer expand, barring some really fluke die rolls, it’s a matter of time before Allies win. So that’s why I try and have the bulk of the Russian army on the East against Japan after the first few turns.

It’s my style of play but I can certainly see where you have a point about the Russian army being as one and fighting Germany.

I have a question: how do you confront the Japanese if you do that?

I think the main key to an allied victory is the development of UK/US aid to Russia so that Germany can never get a real offensive going against her thus giving Russia the ability to transfer troops to the east and stem the Japanese tide.

Germany usually gets Africa first and so weakens UK terribly for maybe 2 rounds (and if J gets India it’s even worse) but usually Germany doesn’t have the ability to reinforce Africa (if they do it’s tougher for Ally, or if Japan gets to Africa watch out) so a few US troops can get it back for UK. Basically the UK has to get back on its feet so it can help pump troops into Russia and also keep Germany honest on the western front. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a German player think “I can hold WEu with x many troops” only to not see a transport here or there, or just plain underestimate what the Allies are willing to throw at him.

Again, key to me is getting UK/US troops into Russia so Russia can send all troops East to face Japan. Send in a couple of UK/US fighters as well for defense and after a while Japan cannot advance anymore. Once Japan’s advance is contained, the US can start building a Pacific fleet and transports and start Island hopping because usually Japan takes all her island troops to the mainland. Eventually $ of Allies > Axis, as can be expected.

But if you can’t get UK back up from the 18 IPC a turn she usually falls to within 2 turns so she can start a healthy troop pump to Russia, Germany will just overwhelm and then it’s mucho problemos.

If I was playing as Japan and I saw a IPC on each turn in India on UK1 and in Sinkiang on US1 I would spare no expense to go after them both at the result of a detente on the Russian front.

Granted UK could bring over anything that survived the German assault on Africa or the infantry from Syria, but Japan can still take India on J1. This leaves USA to either launch counter to try and retake it so on UK2 they can reinforce or to simply pull back troops into Sinkiang from China in order to defend their newly minted IC.

Granted Russia could help by either moving forces over to help defend or by launching a strike on say Manchuria but in the beginning if J gets a few transpors and goes heavy INF and lands most fighters in Manch, the Russians will be hard pressed to take it and J will have adequate support to take the IPCs in both India and Sin.

Plus this means a much slower overall attack on Germany which maybe gives her another turn to build which means another 11 or so INF for the attack on Russia without having to worry about the US/UK attacks on WEu or the landing troops in Fin/Nw or Karelia.

I think the IC on India is feasible for UK player (I know people have their differences regarding this so it’s an individual thing) and if you can defend it then it’s a great deterrent to the Japanese sweep into Asia. But as for something in Sin, I think that’s more of a later round deal when Germany is being handled and the UK territories in Africa are back in their hands thus giving them the economic output to deal with Germany with minimal US support (UK and Russia) and thus allowing the US to start something against the Japanese from the mainland as well.

Just my thoughts…

With two subs, one transport, and two infantry, plus your entire Luftwaffe

That’s the problem I see though… because here’s the issue.

Agreed that first we need to take out the waters around UK, which needs probably more than just two subs (if Russian player hasn’t already tried to take them out on R1 if no RR). If Subs get killed, invasion force is sunk. If you devote enough air power to clear out the English channel, you risk not having enough to deal with the UK itself.

I may try this one out just the rolls to see how often the German player can come up with a victory. It will cost him all aircraft however and R2 the Russian player WILL come hard at him if possible.

But I’ll tell you what, it’s nice to see some alternative views on how to take a new angle on the game. There’s no criticism here, just my view that I don’t think it’s feasible until at least G3 and by that time it’s too late I believe the initial post was about it being feasible during the very beginning of the game.

It would also include most likely Germany purchasing at least one more fighter/ bomber on G1 which means that there’s a good chance even with RR that Russia on R2 can make an effective stab against German strength in the east… and if the attack on Britain fails, or the AA gun gets lucky you are a sitting duck on both the east and western fronts.

NOW, having said that what you could do is buy a carrier and transport on G1 plus some infantry, land two planes on it after taking out the Uk Fleet, take out the UK new fleet (which is tought esp if USA sends fighters to Uk Carrier on USA1) with maybe the sub in med if it survived (if it’s in western med) plus sub in Baltic get a few quick hits… er, on second thought it’s a really REALLy tough thing to pull off.

And if anyone is that lucky with dice, please contact me and we can go hang out in Atlantic City…

Wait, I just want to make sure I am understanding this the right way…

We can assume that G1 destroys the UK fleet in UKSZ, right? Plus maybe the trans in ECA. So if UK buys an IC on UK1, they have 15 IPC left which means no carrier and thus no US fighters in UKSZ to thwart another German air assault on G2. After that, I suppose you could start pumping sea units out of the ECA IC and shipping them into UK after getting a large enough navy (or waiting for US Pacific Fleet to come over) but unless I’m getting this the wrong way you can’t both have an IC in ECA on UK1 and also have a viable fleet in the UKSZ for G2 which means no transports until at least UK3 or so.

If I’m missing something let me know. I’ve been known to miss obvious things on the board before :D

The way I see a lot of games develop it’s a race between Japan trying to weaken Russia enough so Germany can take her and the UK/USA getting their act together and getting enough troops/ threat of invasion to keep the Germans honest in WEu and the east.

When I play as Japan I usually focus on Russia first and the reason behind that is because the weaker Russia is financially the better for Germany. Also, it forces Russia to divert forces to the east or else get swept in from behind. The Americans can keep the four IPC in China/Sink because the only threat they have there is the fighter to take out transports sometimes I forget to give protection. But India and the US Asian presence is secondary to putting tremendous pressure on Russia from the east.

Of course if India builds an IC, that becomes a primary target earlier on because of the ability two or three rounds down the road to launch counter attacks into the Japanese rear. Two front wars are bad.

It’s an interesting thought but what that means is that UK cannot get an effective navy up for at least an additional turn. Plus, figuring that Germany has taken at least 3IPC from UK (Egypt + Wafrica) and will take more the next turn, even barring Japan taking India on T1, I just think it pushes UK back too far. What I mean is that they need to get the navy up and running so that transports can get help to Russia before USA fleet gets over and gives more defensive help.

When I play as Germany, I do all INF the first few turns anyways with the panzers in reserve. I usually only keep 2 fighters on EEU, but still I usually have more troops to prevent an invasion from KAR or anything. Plus Russia is dealing with Japan in the east at the same time.

To make a long story short I think anything that doesn’t put immediate pressure on Germany is bad, but that’s just my gamestyle as an ally. I’ll try this later today and see how it turns out.