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    Posts made by KurtGodel7

    • RE: Hiroshima visit, a missed op.

      @Imperious:

      He’s not German. More like wannabe German… and don’t think for a second his name is “Kurt” either.

      http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm

      Right Kurt– I’ll keep lying… Japan never attacked Honolulu, pictures don’t matter and Japan did cause way more deaths than what Americans caused Japan.

      Take his claim that I’ve cited neo-Nazi sources.

      The claim is YOUR [sic] the neo nazi and you read nothing but rubbish that pollutes the mind. You probably go online and find reading material that confirms your ridiculous ideas, then buy those books. Probably have a whole library of sordid junk books to look at.

      Your earlier claim was that I’d cited neo-Nazi sources. None of the sources I’d cited were neo-Nazi, and your earlier claim was a lie. Anyone who reads this thread will see your earlier claim. Your new claim–that I’m a neo-Nazi–is not a justification for you having lied about my sources.

      Your quoted post contains a link, and you seem to be implying that the link supports your claim that the Japanese engaged in civilian bombing at Honolulu. The link doesn’t mention Honolulu or Hawaii. It describes the rape of Nanking. The fact that Japan did engage in atrocities in Nanking does not give you the license to invent fictitious Japanese bombing raids.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: Hiroshima visit, a missed op.

      @Wolfshanze:

      Imperious Leader, why you always argue with KurtGodel7 over his beliefs… you gotta know you’re not going to change his mind… it’s like arguing with Hitler that Fascism is bad.  :roll:

      The reason he’s not going to change my beliefs is because he is lying, he knows that he is lying, and he knows that I know he’s lying. Take his claim that I’ve cited neo-Nazi sources. I know that I haven’t done so, he knows that I haven’t done so. But he also knows that no third party is going to look through my posts to see whether his claim is accurate.

      His goal in responding to me is always to derail and confuse the issue. I am not the intended audience for that. You are.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: Hiroshima visit, a missed op.

      Even if you add Japanese civilian killings starting in 1931, the American government still killed more civilians during and shortly after WWII than did the Japanese government.

      As for the pictures you found: when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the American military fired aa guns at Japanese aircraft. Some of those aa shells landed on Honolulu, causing some deaths, fires , and loss of property. The pictures you found are most likely related to that.

      As for the war crimes committed by the British and American governments during and after the war: not once have I cited a neo-Nazi or other non-mainstream source in support of my statements. Your attempt to disparage my sources is, simply put, a lie. Why do you feel it necessary to tell lies in the course of this discussion?

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: Hiroshima visit, a missed op.

      @Imperious:

      Honolulu was bombed on Dec 1941

      And Japan still killed more deaths combined , than Americans caused for the war Japan caused. Bombing them was done to defeat the enemy that created so much harm. It is not in-itself the cause of suffering but rather that is directly Japans fault for starting the war in the first place.

      And of course you tried to bring the Germans in this, which is totally separate.

      You are wrong. The American government caused more civilian deaths during and immediately after WWII than did the Japanese government. Preventing harm to innocent civilians was never a priority to the plutocrats who controlled the American government.

      You blame the Japanese government’s killing of civilians on Japan. You also blame the American government’s killing of civilians on Japan, saying that because Japan started the war our government’s killings were their fault, not the fault of the American plutocrat class.

      There are several gaping holes in that argument, one of which I’ll point out here. During the months leading up to Pearl Harbor, the Japanese government had attempted to negotiate a cessation of the oil embargo, and other warlike measures the American government had instituted against Japan. FDR consistently refused to meet with the Japanese prime minister. One Japanese prime minister had staked his entire political career on negotiating a peaceful resolution with the U.S. He tried to get a meeting with FDR for months. His political career ended, due to his inability to get a meeting with FDR, or make any progress in negotiating an end to the crippling measures. His hawkish replacement also tried to get a meeting, and was also refused. FDR wanted war with Japan, and did everything he possibly could to provoke war. He doesn’t get to blame his own administration’s (very considerable) list of war crimes on Japan.

      Finally, if you are claiming Japan bombed civilian targets in Hawaii, please provide a link.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: WWII–-75th ANNIVERSARY DISCUSSION--#23---JUNE 1941

      Good post. However, I would like to make a correction. During WWII, Winston Churchill (later joined by FDR) imposed a food blockade on Germany. The Hunger Plan was the Nazi government’s effort to deal with the resulting food crisis. The Hunger Plan involved the starvation of captured Soviet cities; so that the food which would otherwise have fed those cities could instead be used to prevent starvation elsewhere in the Reich.

      The plan had never been to starve Soviet POWs. Those POWs were conscripted to work in German weapons factories. Everyone, from Hitler on down, recognized those POWs were an essential component of Germany’s war machine. That is why Hitler ordered the POWs to be fed.

      However, the Reich lacked the manpower necessary to cordon off captured Soviet cities from the Soviet countryside. Due to the lack of that manpower, the Nazis were unable to prevent food from flowing from the captured Soviet countryside to captured Soviet cities. The Hunger Plan mostly failed: the planned starvation in captured Soviet cities mostly did not occur. That failure didn’t result in fewer deaths. Just different deaths than those the Nazi government had envisioned with their Hunger Plan. Due to the failure of the Hunger Plan, the man tasked with feeding the Soviet POWs didn’t have the food he needed to carry out the order Hitler had given to him: the order to feed the Soviet POWs. Because it was physically impossible for that man to carry out his orders, millions of Soviet POWs starved to death while in German captivity.

      The Nazi leadership had deep-seated fears about Germany’s food situation. One of the reasons Hitler wanted lebensraum was so that Germany could physically feed itself, even if Britain imposed a food blockade. (As it did in WWI, and as Churchill again did in WWII.) The two most vital resources Hitler required from the western Soviet Union were food and petroleum. For Barbarossa to have been successful from the Nazi perspective, Germany needed to capture a considerable portion of Soviet oilfields, and a considerable portion of Soviet farmland.

      To address your question of what Hitler should have done differently: he should have placed von Manstein in charge of Barbarossa in its entirety. Doing so would have resulted in a far greater level of success. Moscow and Leningrad almost certainly would have fallen in 1941, paving the way for additional German successes in 1942.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: Hiroshima visit, a missed op.

      @Imperious:

      Wrong as usual. They bombed Honolulu, which was basically American. They bombed Chinese cities and brutally murdered millions. They bombed Filipino cities. They made thousands of wounded Americans walk a few hundred miles and alot of them died. They did gruesome experiments on subjugated inhabitants for no reason other than to cause vast human suffering.

      Japan stated a world war based on a misguided notion of a Bushido code philosophy and militarism and we defeated them and because Japanese suffered a greater loss for their acts, you call us committers of “war crimes”

      Here is another misguided half truth. The proper argument is to state how many people died because of Japanese atrocities vs. how many Japanese were killed. Obviously, Japan killed so many more Chinese and other people that you could not possibly make any argument about that.

      How twisted can you be?

      On March 4th, 1942, Japan sent two flying boats to disrupt repair operations in the Pearl Harbor/Honolulu area. Of those two planes, one is assumed to have dropped its payload into the ocean. The other’s payload fell on an extinct volcano near Honolulu, resulting in no casualties. If you think that operation justifies the destruction of entire Japanese cities (and their people) by fire, up to and including the use of nuclear weapons against civilian targets, then good for you. But you’ll find very few decent people who will agree with that conclusion.

      I agree that Japan committed considerable atrocities against China. But if you’re looking at atrocities the Japanese committed against non-Americans, then you also have to look at atrocities American plutocrats and their political puppets committed against non-Japanese. Those atrocities include the food blockade (20 - 30 million deaths during the war), the Morgenthau Plan (6 million deaths in the early postwar era), Operation Keelhaul (an unknown but significant number of deaths, not exceeding 5 million), and handing over German POWs into French or Soviet custody. That’s not even mentioning the extermination bombing campaign waged against the German civilian population, nor the “shoot anything that moves” orders given to American pilots flying over the German countryside. There were more victims of American war crimes in the European theater, than there were victims of Japanese war crimes on the Asian mainland.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: Hiroshima visit, a missed op.

      @Zooey72:

      I am not going to get political on Obama going there and talking about the horrors of nuclear weapons.  No one is going to dispute that A-bombs are bad.  If you want to drive that one into the ground that is fine, no one is going to argue that (you could put that right next to ‘smoking is bad for you’, as far as common knowledge goes).

      What I think the speech should have included though is remembering American strength during WW2.  The islamo crazies are not the first willing to kill themselves for their cause, Japan was a country full of like minded people and they lost.  Say something like “Whether it be men crashing planes into ships, or men crashing them into buildings we will not be detoured in our fight against evil regardless of the fanatiscism of our enemy”.  I would go further in regards to Putin and 'Little Kim" and probably quote Reagan “We must tell to our enemies there is a price we will not pay, there is a line that which they must not advance”, and in some way connect that to Nazi Germany in comparison.  I would also close the whole thing with how through the Marshall Plan we rebuilt Germany and Japan and they are both strong allies of the U.S.

      I know some here may think it is a bit tactless to give a speech like that at Hiroshima, but I think that is one of the big hypocrisies of WW2 and how it is remembered.  As bad as Japan was, and despite the atrocities they committed they have never owned what they did the way the Germans was (rightfully) forced to.  If a speech like the one I described was given at Dresden no one would bat an eye lash because everyone knows the Nazis ‘got what they deserved’.  I would contend the larger fanatics were easily in Japan.  While the SS were willing to fight and die, even most of them would probably not commit suicide rather than face defeat.

      Your perspective is different from mine.

      During WWII, the United States engaged in a massive bombing campaign against Japanese cities, even though Japan never bombed American cities. Our illegal bombing campaign was capped off by the use of nuclear weapons against Japanese cities. This, months after Japan had offered us their conditional surrender. During WWII, more Japanese died due to American war crimes (such as our bombing of their cities) than Americans died due to Japanese war crimes.

      Did we drag our nation’s name through the mud after WWII? No! We proclaimed that to have been the so-called “Greatest Generation,” even while starving millions of innocent Germans to death after the war. (JCS 1067, aka the Morgenthau Plan.) if we never atoned for the war crimes we committed during and after WWII, why should Japan? Is the example of Germany’s postwar shame and collective guilt really so wonderful that other nations should be encouraged to follow suit?

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: My AAA Command Center Bunker

      @Gargantua:

      I used to run a Similar Bunker, as sporting in deed. I really like the Electronic Displays.

      I’m noticing your basement is unfinished… Dare I say, it wouldn’t take to much to complete the job?

      Where abouts your live? A few weekends of work and minor investment, would complete your house basement, and take your bunker to an unprecedented and undiscovered plain.

      Just imagine putting up the dry-wall, getting a nice gray finish (Looks stunning trust me), doing some old-fashioned millwork. Paint the doors steel. Setup some old radio equipment. You could do a mural, or atleast put some posters up. Better than Insulation, poly, and stick frame. :P

      A few ammo crates full of any kind of food/candy you can imagine, a surrond sound system with 1000+ oldies and classical battle music playing. And a fridge with nothing but Beer, Coke, and Red-Bulls.

      I’ve got lots of flags, antiques, and nick-nacks locked away in a storage facility I need to give away. We should talk. Pm me.

      Good ideas Gargantua. :) I’d like to add a few ideas as well.

      The walls should have propaganda posters: at least one poster from each major participant. The posters should be calls to action or calls to victory, not posters intended to vilify the enemy.

      American propaganda posters:
      Poster 1
      Poster 2
      Poster 3

      Canadian poster:
      Canadian poster 1

      German posters:
      Poster 1
      Poster 2
      Poster 3

      Soviet posters:
      Poster 1
      Poster 2

      British posters:
      Poster 1
      Poster 2
      Poster 3

      Japanese posters:
      Poster 1
      Poster 2

      In addition to the propaganda posters, there should be a few pictures of generals and admirals, such as General Patton, General von Manstein, Admiral Nimitz, and Admiral Yamamoto. You also need MP3s of WWII era songs, just to add a little extra period flavor. :)

      posted in Customizations
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: Korean turned Jap, becomes a comrade before joining the Nazis and surrendering.

      Zooey wrote:

      Maybe we should have enlisted him to fight in the Korean war lol.

      If we’d done that, the Chinese would have taken him prisoner during one of their “human wave” attacks. He would have been conscripted to fight in the Chinese Army. The Chinese would have used him in their invasion of India of 1962. Once he’d been taken prisoner/added to the Indian Army, he would have been used to help fight the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965. Upon being captured and conscripted by the Pakistanis, he would have been sent to fight in the Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971. After being captured by Bangladesh, he would have been forced to serve in the Bangladeshi Army, especially in the Chittagong Hills Tracts Conflict (which began in 1975). He would have been captured by the Shanti Bahini (Bangladesh’s opponent in that conflict). But once that conflict ended, he would have been allowed to retire; quietly living out the rest of his days in the Chittagong Hill Tracts of southeastern Bangladesh.

      Imagine it’s the 1980s. An old man in the Chittagong Hill Tracts is cooking food by an outdoor fire. A child comes up to him and begins a conversation. “I served in the war,” the old man says. “Which war?” the child asks. “Now that is a complicated question!” answers the old man.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: What if Hitler aimed *only* for Leningrad and Stalingrad in 1941?

      Very good thread. Thanks to everyone who took the time to create well thought-out contributions. Before getting into my own recommendations, I think it’s important to review the background.

      The Soviet Union was not expecting a German invasion. Therefore, the Soviet military was in a purely offensive posture. Also, Germany was more ready for war than Soviet military planners had realized. This created a window of opportunity, during which Germany was able to achieve a 10:1 exchange ratio against Soviet soldiers. (10 Soviets killed or captured for every German.) However, that situation didn’t last forever: the Soviets eventually got their act together, after which the exchange ratio declined to 3:1. At Stalingrad, the Soviets achieved nearly a 1:1 exchange ratio against the Germans. However, there were a number of times when General von Manstein achieved a much better than 3:1 ratio against the Soviets, well after Barbarossa had ended. For example, in the Third Battle of Kharkov (fought in the aftermath of Germany’s defeat at Stalingrad), von Manstein and the Germans achieved a 10:1 exchange ratio. The Soviet Union had a prewar population of 169 million, compared to just 69 million for prewar Germany. The Soviets could afford many more losses than could the Germans.

      Any operation against the Soviet Union necessarily had two phases. During phase 1 (quick gains), Germany’s main objective should have been to advance as quickly as possible wherever possible, while capturing or destroying as much Soviet strength as possible. Phase 2 begins once the quick, easy gains end. Phase 2 would be slower and more deliberative than phase 1.

      The gains Germany could make during phase 1 were limited not just by the Soviet military, but also by Germany’s supply situation. Germany was a coal-rich, oil-poor nation. Romanian oil production helped offset that, as did Germany’s synthetic oil facilities. But ideally from an oil conservation perspective, Germany’s soldiers would be supplied via coal-powered trains, and horses carrying food from train drop off sites to the soldiers in the field. However, the Soviet rail network was far more limited than Germany’s, the Soviets used a different rail gauge than the Germans, and Stalin had ordered Soviet rail lines destroyed as part of his scorched earth policy. The Wehrmacht was therefore far more dependent on petroleum than it would liked to have been. Germany had only enough petroleum for 2 - 3 months of active operations, after which its operational tempo would slow due to lack of oil. Lack of oil also implied an inability to deliver to German soldiers the things they needed: ammunition, food, medical supplies, and winter uniforms.

      I agree with the OP that the Caucasus oilfields were of absolutely vital importance to both Germany and to the Soviet Union. However, Germany’s reach during Barbarossa was shorter than Germans would have liked. (Due to lack of oil.) The closer any given objective was to the front, the easier it would be for Germany to take. The Caucasus oilfields were considerably farther from Germany’s “starting line” than were any of the objectives it actually took during Barbarossa. The conquest of those oilfields would have fundamentally altered both the German and Soviet war efforts. But the capture of those oilfields was not an achievable goal for 1941.

      Hitler had initially chosen to de-emphasize Moscow as an objective, preferring instead to focus on territory in the southern portion of the Soviet Union. That southern advance proved fruitful, and resulted in the capture of large numbers of Soviet soldiers. It did not, however, prove decisive. Hitler later changed his mind, and decided to go after Moscow. In an operation such as this, it is typically better to commit to one objective, than it is to vacillate between two different (individually tempting) options. Moscow almost certainly could have been taken, had taking it been a central focus from day one.

      I’m skeptical of claims that the capture of Moscow would have resulted in the capture or death of Stalin. Yes, Stalin had remained in the city after the government had been evacuated. But I think the theory there was that it was easier to quietly evacuate one man than a whole government. My understanding is that there was a contingency plan to evacuate Stalin from Moscow if the situation had required it. Had Stalin been killed while trying to evacuate, that obviously would have been a tremendous bonus for the Germans. But the chance of that happening was probably well under 50% even if the city fell, so they would have been rather foolish to rely on it.

      However, the capture of Moscow would have deprived the Soviet Union of a major source of industry and of population. It would also have been deprived of its most vital rail network hub; making it extremely difficult for the Soviets to concentrate their soldiers in preparation for an offensive. From a military and industrial perspective, Moscow was the single most valuable target Germany could have taken in 1941, even assuming Stalin escaped. There was also a good opportunity to have taken it in '41–an opportunity which would no longer exist in '42. Germany had also wasted an opportunity to take Leningrad in '41. Once that opportunity slipped away, Leningrad became much better-defended.

      Germany needed to have come away from phase 1 owning Moscow, Leningrad, the Ukraine, and a lot of other territory in the western Soviet Union. With that territory in hand, it would then have been well positioned to launch a good summer offensive in 1942.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: National Socialism vs. Communism.

      @aequitas:

      Something??
      And you say that you don’t deny the Holocaust??

      To underline your arguments you should have evidence of it.
      You don’t! So just leave it!!
      First you blame the Western Allies for the imaginary Food Blockade, now you are saying it was the beasty Pluto-rusky-soviets??

      It is just sad… :-(

      And you say that you don’t deny the Holocaust??

      Correct. I do not deny the Holocaust.

      To underline your arguments you should have evidence of it.

      If there are specific factual claims I’ve made for which you’d like to see more evidence, just ask. My typical response to such requests is to provide evidence of my assertions. In supporting such claims, I have never cited pro-Nazi or other far right sources. My rationale is that a far right source could be expected to present the Nazis’ case in the most favorable light, and might even be willing to exaggerate things in the Nazis’ favor. If on the other hand a mainstream (anti-Nazi) source is willing to admit the truth of something which casts a less than 100% favorable light on the Allies’ actions, then that admission is most likely true.

      First you blame the Western Allies for the imaginary Food Blockade

      After his political career ended, former U.S. president Herbert Hoover wrote a series of books. One of those books was Freedom Betrayed. On page 589 of Freedom Betrayed, Hoover wrote the following:


      [In 1939] the Polish Government escaped to London under Prime Minister Wladyslaw Sikorski. He requested me to organize relief for his country. My old colleagues and I did so, but after about one year, during which about $6,000,000 was raised and supplies had been shipped, our work was stopped by the British blockade.


      Neville Chamberlain had of course blockaded metals, oil, weapons, ammunition, and other items you’d normally expect to be blockaded. Churchill added food to the list of contraband items. That is why Hoover was able to send food to the starving Poles during the first year of the war, and was unable to send food to them thereafter.

      The Wikipedia article expands on the subject of this blockade.


      As 1940 drew to a close, the situation for many of Europe’s 525 million people was dire. With the food supply reduced by 15% by the blockade and another 15% by poor harvests, starvation and diseases such as influenza, pneumonia, tuberculosis, typhus and cholera were a threat. Germany was forced to send 40 freight cars of emergency supplies into occupied Belgium and France, and American charities such as the Red Cross, the Aldrich Committee, and the American Friends Service Committee began gathering funds to send aid. Former president Herbert Hoover, who had done much to alleviate the hunger of European children during World War I, wrote:[63]

      The food situation in the present war is already more desperate than at the same stage in the [First] World War. … If this war is long continued, there is but one implacable end… the greatest famine in history.


      Adam Tooze’s book Wages of Destruction has been praised by The Times (London), The Sunday Times (London), The Wall Street Journal, and History Today. The Financial Times called it “masterful.”  On pages 418 - 419 Tooze writes the following:


      After 1939 the supply of food in Western Europe was no less constrained than the supply of coal. . . . Grain imports in the late 1930s had run at the rate of more than 7 million tons per annum mostly from Argentina and Canada. These sources of supply were closed off by the British blockade. . . . By the summer of 1940, Germany was facing a Europe-wide agricultural crisis. . . . By 1941 there were already signs of mounting discontent due to the inadequate food supply. In Belgium and France, the official ration allocated to ‘normal consumers’ of as little as 1,300 calories per day, was an open invitation to resort to the black market.


      now you are saying it was the beasty Pluto-rusky-soviets

      The food blockade was of course imposed by the Western Allies. Those nations are typically known as democracies, even though a study showed that, in practice, decisions are made on a plutocratic basis. Princeton University found there is zero correlation between what the bottom economic 90% wants and what the federal government actually does. (The data go back a number of decades, but do not go all the way back to WWII. The study therefore represents very strong evidence, but not proof, that the U.S. had been a plutocracy during WWII.)

      I regard most politicians as shills for America’s plutocrat class. The brutality of the Allied food blockade was not reflective of a murderous American population. It was reflective of a murderous, evil plutocrat class.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: A naval Warhawk?

      The OP spam bot should be reported to a moderator.

      One way of dealing with this particular spam bot would be to automatically ban anyone who uses the word “aviacao” in his first post. Hopefully something like that would be easy to set up.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: National Socialism vs. Communism.

      @aequitas:

      Sorry Kurt, but you simply sound like one who denies the Holocaust.

      There is a original tape where Himmler exactly stats how much he cares for non Germans.

      The KZ’s are real and will surely come again (History simply repeats it self).
      Organisation Todt was real.

      You read all your books and take them for granted. Just come over to Germany an visit Dachau, Bergen Belsen.
      Take a close look and the truth will popp into your eyes.

      Untill then, I suggest to you to take a notch back with wild assumptions and the spread of anti allies Propaganda.

      Were the Allies good during WWII?? NO, not at all, but nor were the Nazis.
      War Shows the ugly truth of human beings given the wrong Tools in their Hands too kill each other.

      I don’t want to insult you nor be mean to you, but I think at least we all should show a Little bit more respect to the victims of WWII.

      This Topic is about: National Socialism vs. Communism.
      Your commnets are way off of it.

      I will address many of the points you made in your post. But first I’d like to make a different point–one which pertains to the title of this thread. :) During the Cold War, the communist objective was world conquest. To achieve this, the Soviet Union favored corroding the United States from within. Communists in Western nations opposed traditional morality, supported massive immigration, opposed religion (especially Christianity), opposed patriotism, supported radical feminism, and did everything else they possibly could have done to corrode and destroy the existing social order. The theory was that weakening the existing social order was a necessary prelude for the coming communist revolution. That was also an important difference between the communists and the Nazis: the Nazis didn’t do stuff like that. They’d either conquer you outright, or they’d leave you alone.

      My guess is that the vast majority of Western plutocrats don’t believe in communist fairy tales about a Marxist utopia. Nevertheless, those plutocrats have picked up right where the communists have left off. Plutocrats have also favored attacks on Christianity, attacks on traditional morality, attacks on patriotism, massive immigration, etc. It’s more or less the same list of things communists have favored, back when the communists had been consciously trying to destroy Western plutocracies from within. Given that the communists were actively and consciously engaged in a cold war against the West, one could make the argument that Western plutocrats are also engaged in a war against their host nations.

      Should the plutocrats succeed in that war, the result will not be a chimerical communist utopia. It will be Third World status for the (formerly) First World nations. Western plutocrats appear to be pursuing a “divide and rule” strategy over their respective host nations. (Similar to the divide and rule strategy Britain used on India.) The plutocrats have steadily gained power at the expense of the population as a whole. Assuming that process continues, our own plutocrats will eventually have as much power relative to the nations of North America and Europe as a typical Third World elite has relative to the nation it rules. In a typical Third World nation, a narcissistic elite runs the nation for its own benefit, and the divided population is helpless to resist this hostile rule. The more our own plutocrats succeed in their “divide and rule” strategy, the more they succeed in physically replacing our populations with those from Third World nations, the more progress they will make toward their apparent objective of turning First World nations into Third World nations. (I don’t claim to know that this is their actual objective. What I’m saying is that if that was their objective, they would be doing exactly the things we’ve seen them do. They wouldn’t need to change a single thing.)

      Anyone living in a Warsaw Pact nation was ruled by a government with malignant intent. Anyone living in a Western plutocracy was also ruled by a government with malignant intent. (Though, obviously, the plutocrats’ rule over Western nations is less absolute than the communists’ rule. The plutocrats have to be more constrained in the ways they demonstrate their malignant intent.)

      Western plutocrats and communist leaders were similar, in that both were malignant toward Western nations. But both groups also had malignant intent toward the citizens of the Soviet Union. Look at the Ukrainian famine–a famine which killed more people than the Holocaust. Western plutocrats did their very best to shield the Soviet Union from the diplomatic or international political consequences of that famine. Just as those Western plutocrats, and their hired politicians, were perfectly happy to send millions of refugees to the Soviet Union after the war. (Thus consigning many or most of those refugees to their deaths.)

      Ultimately, we have two seemingly separate groups (Western plutocrats and Soviet leaders) which are both comfortable with undermining Western Civilization. They’re both comfortable with large-scale Soviet mass murder. They’re both comfortable with Allied murder of large numbers of people during and after WWII. And yet, both these groups are very intent on stirring up plenty of outrage over the Holocaust. Why is that? Is it because they felt compassion for the millions of victims of the Holocaust? Is it because mass murder represents a violation of their values and principles?

      Both the communists and the plutocrats amply demonstrated, again and again, that they do not feel compassion for the victims of mass murder. At no point did the Western plutocrats seriously pressure the Soviet Union into stopping, or even slowing, its extensive program of mass murder. Nor does mass murder represent a violation of the plutocrats’ or communists’ values: both groups were guilty of tens of millions of mass murders. Nor did the communists or the plutocrats attempt to stop the Holocaust, as shown by their decision to deny refuge to Jews who wished to flee Germany, and by their decision to prevent Germany from having the food it needed to feed the people within its borders.

      In the modern Western world, people are given two choices: either a) surrender to the plutocrat/communist attack on Western Civilization, or b) be tainted by the stigma of the Holocaust. The objective of both plutocrats and communists is to destroy Western Civilization. Holocaust propaganda exists to cripple resistance to that attack.

      By no means am I attempting to deny the Holocaust happened. Video footage of concentration camp inmates gives clear and conclusive proof that something horrible happened to the Jews. The “propaganda” part of “Holocaust propaganda” comes from the fact that the plutocrats, and the Western politicians those plutocrats controlled, very carefully hid the reasons why the Holocaust happened. No mention is made of the Allied food blockade, or of Germany’s total inability to feed all those within her own borders. We are merely told that Hitler hated the Jews, and that this hatred was the sole reason for his having killed 6 million of them. While it is true that millions of Jews died during the Holocaust, the plutocratic/communist explanation as to why those Jews died is a total lie.

      Just come over to Germany an visit Dachau, Bergen Belsen.
      Take a close look and the truth will popp into your eyes.

      The intention of a food blockade is to kill people through hunger. As they are dying of hunger, they will look exactly like the victims of Dachau and Begen Belsen looked. The plutocrats’ food blockade did what it was intended to do. It killed a lot of people and inflicted unspeakable suffering. It gave the plutocrats and the communists exactly the propaganda story they wanted. Which is precisely why they imposed that food blockade in the first place.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: National Socialism vs. Communism.

      @aequitas:

      Ever heard about Organisation Todt??

      One of the workers saftey was, that they embedded your dead bodies in the wall of cement of when you would die at the Job site.

      A number of anti-Nazi lies have been told over the years. For example, I’ve read Mein Kampf, and not once did Hitler say anything about a desire for world conquest. Instead, he wrote about his desire to conquer the Soviet Union–or at least that portion of the Soviet Union west of the Urals. This, he felt, would give Germany the same strength relative to Europe the United States had relative to North America. He pointed out that no one had ever imposed a Versailles Treaty on the United States. Under the Nazis, German naval spending was never more than 10 - 11% of overall military spending. A completely inadequate naval budget for any serious extra-European conquest. Early in the war, Hitler showed very little interest in conquering Britain’s colonies in North Africa, despite Britain’s temporary military weakness there.

      None of which stopped FDR from (once again) lying to the American people, and claiming that Hitler had formulated long-term plans to conquer the United States. FDR also said that Hitler’s long-term goal was world conquest.

      The above was hardly the only piece of deliberately deceitful anti-Nazi propaganda which had been spread by corrupt, evil politicians. Other talking points include the claims that the Nazis made lampshades out of human skin, soap out of human fat, the claim that Hitler described Nazism as a “big lie,” the jig Hitler supposedly did after the fall of France, the claim or implication that the Nazis could have fed all the people within their own borders, etc. Each of those claims are complete fiction. The claim that the Nazis embedded the dead bodies of foreign workers into cement walls sounds like more of the same.

      I do agree, however, that during WWII the Nazis turned millions of non-Germans into conscripted laborers. Germany was fighting for its very existence against foes much larger and more powerful than itself. Conscripting all able-bodied people was a matter of absolute military necessity. I also acknowledge that many of these workers died of starvation. (Despite Hitler’s order that they be fed.) The Churchill/FDR food blockade made it physically impossible for Germany to feed all the people within its borders.

      Western plutocrats worked very hard to create the impression that WWII was a war between the humanitarian Allies and the anti-humanitarian Axis. How did the plutocrats create that impression, when they themselves had vigorously rejected humanitarianism? They (very quietly) imposed a food blockade on Germany, then (very loudly) blamed Hitler for everyone who died as a result of that blockade. This was before the Internet, so the plutocrats’ ability to suppress information was quite considerable.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: National Socialism vs. Communism.

      Rather that attempt to counter each erroneous assertion Zhukov made, I will take a step back and look at the bigger picture. As a general rule there are two available evolutionary strategies: individual, and group-oriented. Both strategies are seen in the insect world. Most insects pursue an individual evolutionary strategy, and are unwilling to make sacrifices for anyone other than their own offspring. Ants, wasps, bees, and other social insects pursue a group evolutionary strategy. The latter strategy is much more powerful than the former, which is why there are no “individual evolutionary strategy” insects competing for the niches filled by ants.

      What is true of insects is also true of human beings. During the rise of the Roman Republic, Rome pursued a group evolutionary strategy. Romans were willing to make considerable personal sacrifices for the good of Rome. All that ended during the declining days of the Roman Empire. Government officials became much easier to bribe. Concepts such as honor were regarded with cynicism and derision. Roman men were no longer willing to fight for Rome. A large population of able bodied Romans was given bread and circuses, without being required to work. All of this was consistent with an individual evolutionary strategy, and inconsistent with a group evolutionary strategy. The group evolutionary strategy had been abandoned; and that abandonment was the primary cause of the fall of the Roman Empire.

      In a typical Third World nation the majority of wealth will have been seized by a very small economic elite. That elite acts in ways which benefit itself, and acts without regard for the welfare of the nation as a whole. Those outside the elite pursue “selfish familialism”–which basically means to always act in one’s family’s own interests, and assume everyone else will do the same. This is a group evolutionary strategy–but on a family scale, not a nation scale. Such a strategy cannot build or maintain a nation, and cannot threaten the narcissistic elites’ stranglehold on power.

      The United States and Europe are steadily transitioning toward Third World status. The main reason for that transition is that our economic elites are at least as badly behaved as theirs. The lies and political agendas of the elites have consistently pushed the West closer to Third World status. (That does not necessarily mean that Third World status for us is their ultimate objective. It does, however, mean that they are consistently “acting as if” driven by that motive.) The elites have increasingly embraced crony capitalism. They have chosen to import workers while exporting jobs. They are choosing to physically replace the people of Western nations with those from Third World nations. At least in the U.S., 51% of immigrants are on welfare. $24,000 was spent, per income tax paying American, to fund the Wall Street bailouts. The elites have accumulated enormous government debts in order to pay for their spending–spending never intended to benefit the American people or the American nation. These are the sort of actions which can push a First World nation into Third World status.

      Several years ago, the Mexican government passed a law imposing stricter standards on vehicular emissions. Both the public and police regarded this law as an excuse for police to extract more bribes from the people. Neither group felt the law had anything to do with environmental protection. The law never resulted in reduced emissions, but only resulted in more bribes for police.

      More generally, Third World nations are nearly helpless to enforce any sort of environmental standards. The enforcement of such standards would require a group evolutionary strategy. Selfish familialism cannot result in solid environmental protections. Nor can it result in a strong collective response to any other national or global threat. To the extent that humanity needs to resist group level threats, that resistance can be achieved only to the extent that we resist the elites’ (highly dedicated) efforts to convert Western nations into Third World nations.

      The Nazi government passed clean air and clean water standards. Worker safety measures were significantly improved. The workweek was reduced to 40 hours. Employers were forced to give their workers long vacations. On the other hand, corporate profits significantly increased during the Nazi regime. If the Nazi government significantly improved environmental protections, the well-being of German workers, and the profits of employers, there is no reason to suppose that Nazi Germany was in transition to Third World status.

      Western nations are called “democracies,” even though money matters more than votes. It would be more accurate to label such nations democratic plutocracies. 50 - 100 years ago, there was no overlap between the values of the plutocratic elite and those of the American people. The American people valued things like justice, fairness, human rights, idealism, etc. (At least up to the point.) The primary value of the plutocratic elite is “Antiracism”. Other names for that term include white guilt, or the destruction of the white race.

      That the elites couldn’t have cared less about human rights, or the prevention of mass murder, was proved by their indifference to the Ukrainian famine (7 million victims), other acts of Soviet mass murder (about 20 million additional victims). It was also proved by their use of a food blockade during WWI (700,000 victims), their use of a food blockade during WWII (20 - 30 million victims), the postwar Morgenthau Plan (6 million victims), Operation Keelhaul (an unknown number of victims, probably in the millions), and their passive acceptance of Soviet sphere deportations (probably at least 2 million victims). So how do you convince a gullible American public that the elites’ value set overlaps the public’s value set, even though there is no overlap? First, they created an exaggerated picture of the Nazis’ human rights violations, while sweeping Soviet mass murders and Western plutocrats’ mass murders under the rug. Then they argued that Nazism and mass murder were inextricably linked, and that it was impossible to embrace the former without also embracing the latter. The next step was to con the public into believing that any view the Nazis had which disagreed with the plutocrats’ perspective would inevitably lead to mass murder. The final step in this process was to convince the public that Nazism was worse than communism, regardless of which side had been more brutal. The public had by this point absorbed enough of the plutocrats’ values to make this argument stick.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: National Socialism vs. Communism.

      @Colt45:

      Lolol IL dont tell anyone

      Wolf, I’d be happy to discuss that aspect. I will start with a link which delves right into it. http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

      Thanks for your collection of very good posts, Colt, and for the above link. I’d like to lay a bit of a foundation before addressing the link itself.

      Let’s say you have an ethnic conflict, like the undeclared war between the Jews and the Palestinians. Typically, there will be very little overlap between the claims being made by one side and the claims made by the other side. To believe all the factual assertions made by either participant will almost inevitably lead to favoring that participant over the other. The most important step in choosing a side to favor is to determine which factual assertions to actually believe. Factual assertions made by a third party (such as the Red Cross, or a human rights organization) are probably more reliable than the claims of either participant. (Except in cases where Jews or Palestinians have become influential members of such organizations. To the extent that members of either group have gained influence over those organizations, those organizations could no longer be regarded as neutral.) In a conflict such as this, a number of factual claims will need to be held in abeyance. Until a factual assertion has been either confirmed or denied by a highly credible neutral third party, that assertion should be regarded as something which could easily be true, and just as easily be false.

      There are some parallels between the Jewish/Palestinian ethnic conflict, and the Jewish/Russian ethnic conflict. During the latter ethnic conflict, the Russians began in the stronger position. They used that position to do enough anti-Semitic things to create massive resentment and bitterness within the Jewish community. But they did little about the massive expansion of the Russian Jewish population which occurred in the 19th and 20th centuries. The Jews were not expelled from Russia, and were not prevented from reproducing at well above replacement level. Most Russian Jews lived in poverty due to anti-Semitic economic discrimination. But they were also in a position of rapidly growing demographic strength.

      The Jews were far from the only ones excluded from the center of Russian society. Czarist Russia had occupied nations such as Poland and Finland. Polish and Finns were not necessarily accorded the same treatment as ethnic Russians.

      The phrase “Russian Revolution” is a misnomer, because the vast majority of inner circle Bolsheviks were not ethnic Russians. The phrase “Anti-Russian Revolution” would be far more accurate; to denote the fact that for the most part, that revolution resulted in ethnic Russians losing control over their own country. Those who gained control were typically people who had been excluded from the center of czarist Russia. They then exacted an ugly revenge against the groups they blamed for having excluded them. Stalin, for example, was from Georgia. (Not the American Georgia, but the Georgia south of Russia.)

      Any time you have an ethnic conflict, whether it’s Jews against Palestinians, or Jews against czarist Russians, one often finds oneself wondering who started it. Normally the answer to that question depends on who you listen to. If you listen to the standard-issue Jewish account of the Jewish/Palestinian conflict, the Jews have made every reasonable effort to show restraint in the face of intolerable Palestinian provocation. The typical Palestinian description places blame for that conflict on the Jews. Jews describe atrocities committed by Palestinians, while remaining silent about atrocities committed by Jews. Palestinians of course are very vivid in their descriptions of Jewish atrocities committed against them, while remaining silent about their own acts of terror against Jews.

      The article to which you linked was written from a pro-czarist/pro-ethnic Russian perspective. Because it was written from that perspective, it places the vast majority of blame for the Jewish/Russian ethnic conflict at the feet of the Jews. Something written from the Jewish perspective, on the other hand, would draw attention to the anti-Semitic measures undertaken by the czars, while downplaying or completely whitewashing the brutal revenge that some Jews exacted during the Soviet era. Because there was even more bitterness and hatred associated with the Jewish/Russian ethnic conflict than with the Jewish/Palestinian ethnic conflict, it’s at least as difficult to be objective about the former as it is the latter. All the more reason, therefore, to go the extra mile in the effort to reach objectivity.

      Listening to both sides’ stories is an important part of going that extra mile. Obviously, both sides in any ethnic conflict are typically capable of presenting lies, half truths, distortions, exaggerations, facts taken out of context, and omissions. One typically has to sift large piles of that to find a few precious nuggets of objective truth.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: WWII Myths

      @Narvik:

      That myth could have fooled me. I always believed that Hitler attacked Russia because he had promised to do so in his book Mein Kampf, written in 1920, long before Stalin was even remotely able to make plans about invading Germany

      You will recall that Hitler was a soldier, who later became a politician. Like other democratically elected politicians, Hitler promised good things to his constituents. As a general rule, democratically elected politicians make many promises, but seldom deliver on those promises. (At least that’s been the pattern in my country, the United States.)

      The Soviet Union was the most evil major regime in human history. Hitler’s pledge to bring that criminal regime to justice was a very lofty promise. Ridding the world of Soviet evil would have helped the world more than a cure for cancer. Unless you or someone you know was the victim of Soviet crimes against humanity, it’s hard to fully appreciate the full magnitude of the promise to rid the world of Soviet evil.

      However, when a politician pledges to make the world a better place in some way, there is a good chance he’s being insincere. Was Hitler’s promise to make the world better (by destroying the evil of communism) just another hollow campaign promise from another democratically-elected politician? My sense is that Hitler’s promise to destroy communism was made sincerely, and that he really did intend to follow through on the commitment he’d made.

      In 1940, Hitler thought he had the luxury of putting off that invasion until a later time. Sure, he would have invaded eventually. But in the meantime, his trade agreement with the Soviet Union was helping Germany wage war against Britain. So why not clean up the mess in the west now (for example by conquering Britain itself, or at least a good share of the British Empire), while putting off the invasion of the U.S.S.R. until some other time?

      But the Soviet Union undertook a number of measures which, collectively, convinced Hitler he no longer had the time he’d once thought. A few months after the Nazi-Soviet Pact was signed, the U.S.S.R. invaded Finland. Finland’s Mannerheim Line was probably the best-defended terrain on the surface of the Earth. While the Germans found a way to go around the Maginot Line, the terrain left the Soviet invasion force with no choice but to plow straight through the Mannerheim Line. Such a feat was widely considered impossible, but the Soviets achieved it in only a few months’ time. After having conquered Finland’s defenses, Stalin allowed Finland to retain the bulk of its land. The Soviet government announced the Red Army had fought poorly in that war, and Hitler naively believed those propaganda claims. (Hitler was not normally one to gullibly accept communist lies. In this case, however, Soviet propaganda dovetailed with poor Russian performance in WWI, and with Hitler’s racial beliefs about Slavic inferiority.)

      Shortly after his success against Finland, Stalin demanded a slice of Romania. The Romanians had no choice but to acquiesce to that demand, because their nation was far less well-defended than Finland had been. Germany was utterly dependent on Swedish iron ore, and on Romanian oil. With the Mannerheim Line conquered, Stalin was excellently positioned to take the rest of Finland, and to cut Germany off from its Swedish iron ore. With the Soviets having helped themselves to a large slice of Romanian land, and with them strongly hinting at a desire for another slice, the Romanian oilfields were also in jeopardy. During 1940 it had become increasingly clear that the primary focus of Soviet expansionism was westward, and not (as Stalin had claimed) southward.

      Hitler began his preparations to invade the Soviet Union several months after the U.S.S.R. had begun gearing up to invade Germany. However, Germany proved quicker on its feet than the U.S.S.R. Partly that was because Germany had a better road and rail network than the Soviets. That was also partly because the Germans had fewer men and machines to ship; and needed to ship them over a much shorter distance than was the case for Soviet men and machines. Finally, Germany had the best-run military of any major participant in WWII. The competence gap between the Germans and Soviets was much larger than Soviet prewar planning had suggested. Germany invaded on June 22nd; whereas the Soviet troop movement to the front had been scheduled for completion on July 10th, 1941.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: National Socialism vs. Communism.

      @Narvik:

      This is where I get off your bus. How can a man be both a Jew and an Atheist at the same time ? If commies are atheists that are against religion, why would them label themselves as Jews, Christians or Islamists ? And if #international Jewry# (is this even a word ?) did in fact back Communism, as you claim, then why did Sovjet union not back Israel ? How come it was the Christian President Truman that backed the establishment of Israel in 1948, and not the, according to you, the Jew loving commies ? Just curious

      If commies are atheists that are against religion, why would them label themselves as Jews, Christians or Islamists ?
      And if #international Jewry# (is this even a word ?) did in fact back Communism, as you claim, then why did Sovjet union not back Israel ?

      You’ve asked two very good questions. The answer to both can be found by looking at history. Czarist Russia had a long history of Anti-Semitism. That history was so strong that, at least until 1917, the international Jewish community generally favored the Axis. The general feeling, at least among Jews, was that while all major participants in WWI had an unfortunate history of anti-Semitism, czarist Russia’s anti-Semitism was significantly stronger than that of any other major participant.

      Any time you’re trying to overthrow a government, it generally makes sense to ally with those the government has alienated. The Bolsheviks understood this. After coming to power, they declared anti-Semitism to be a crime, with the punishment for that crime being execution. The Jewish community saw czarist anti-Semitism as a disease; and many Jews also saw Bolshevism as the cure.

      Some Jews recognized that Jewish participation in the Bolshevik revolution and Bolshevik government had served to fuel Russian anti-Semitism. Many Russians blamed the Jews for the communist government’s massive crimes against humanity. There was a feeling among many Jews that if the Bolshevik government was to fall, the replacement government would be at least as anti-Semitic as the czarists had been. A number of Jews felt it was in the Jewish community’s best interests for the Bolshevik government to survive.

      It is that feeling which may help explain the (Jewish-owned) New York Times’ decision to lie about the Ukrainian famine. That famine represented the mass murder of 7 million innocent people, including 3 million children. (Seventy year later the New York Times apologized for this coverup.) In choosing to lie about the famine, a deliberate decision was made to shield the Soviet government from the negative diplomatic and international political consequences which would otherwise have arisen. Several years later, the New York Times began a vigorous campaign to get the United States to go to war against Nazi Germany (and perhaps in alliance with the Soviet regime). The thinking was that the Jewish community would benefit from the defeat of an anti-Semitic regime (such as Hitler’s), and the victory of a pro-Semitic regime (such as the Soviet Union).

      Stalin, however, had the habit of allying with B against A. Then he’d ally with C to get rid of B. Then he’d eliminate C. He used this strategy to become the uncontested dictator of the Soviet Union. He also applied it to his other dealings, including his dealings with the Jews. His plan was to use the international Jewish community as part of a broader effort to destroy a common enemy (Nazi Germany). Once his Jewish ally had served its intended purpose, it could then be eliminated. Toward the end of his life, he ordered the construction of two large new concentration camps, widely rumored to be used on the Jews. His show trials of Jewish doctors were intended to create the legal fictions necessary for a broader campaign against Soviet Jews generally. The Soviet media began issuing statements such as the following “Unmasking the gang of poisoner-doctors struck a blow against the international Jewish Zionist organization.”

      In America, Jews had achieved important positions in the media, finance, academia, and other fields. Due to all this Jewish influence in America, Stalin believed that in a war between America and the Soviet Union, the international Jewish community would favor the United States. Stalin’s political preparations for the war against Nazi Germany consisted of liquidating any Soviet citizen who had right wing political views. His internal political preparations for war against the United States and the West consisted primarily of the planned liquidation of the Soviet Jewish population.

      NATO’s non-nuclear forces would have been completely inadequate to prevent the Red Army from sweeping across all of Western Europe. The only real deterrent to Soviet invasion was the American nuclear threat. But as of the early '50s, the United States did not have ICBMs. To drop a nuclear bomb on someone, one had to get a plane directly over the intended target. Stalin believed his (very numerous) MiG force capable of shooting down American bombers before they delivered their nuclear payloads.

      However, Stalin died in 1953, without having had the time to either launch WWIII, or to liquidate the Soviet Jewish population. Stalin’s successors tended to embrace a milder and less aggressive version of his anti-Semitism. The United States and Israel were regarded with extreme distrust, and the Soviet Union tended to aid Israel’s enemies.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: WWII–-75th ANNIVERSARY POLLS--#20--MARCH 1941

      @Private:

      Okay - I just did - and am still in the dark as to how your post relates to this thread.

      As a reply to me the only argument I can see that is relevant is that Britain is responsible for its own decline? Of course it is.

      On the other hand, the economic impact of the war was not shared equally between the UK & US. Far from it. Despite being on the side of the victors, in the course of the war Britain went from being the �world�s greatest creditor� to being the �world�s greatest debtor�.

      Worse, the unexpected termination of Lend-Lease in August 1945 appears designed to destroy the UK�s position as an economic power. Unable to pay for non-returned assets, nor meet the ongoing costs of the war, the UK was �forced� to agree a loan of �4.3bn from the US. This may not seem so much today, but at the time it was twice the size of the UK economy.

      From a US perspective, the fact that this loan was at 2% interest, plus that Lend-Lease assets were valued at a nominal 10%, as well as the subsequent Marshall Plan, of which I believe the UK was the largest recipient, will suggest that the US was helpful and generous to its ally. And in a very real sense it was.

      From a UK perspective, the strings attached to the �forced� loan, regarding convertibility of sterling and liberalisation of trade would lead to the dollar supplanting sterling as an international currency and the loss to Britain of overseas markets.

      Britain then exacerbated its economic woes by trying to maintain a global role, which it could no longer afford to do, and through the cost of the welfare state. So Britain is responsible. Nevertheless, the US very effectively ensured that it replaced Britain as a global power more quickly than would otherwise have been the case.

      Whether the US was right to use Britain�s war woes to further its own position at its ally�s expense will depend on one�s perspective.

      I would make the following argument.

      1. There are a host of ways in which money can be used to influence a Western democracy. You can contribute to political campaigns, you can buy media companies, you can use advertising dollars to influence other people’s media companies, you can make large alumni contributions to universities. In a Western democracy, the true ruling class is the economic elite. A typical politician is a paid shill of that elite.

      2. That ruling class might or might not have the best interests of the nation or of the people at heart. If they don’t, then they play the role of red ants, as described in my earlier post. (With the national majority in the role of black ants.)

      3. Starting before WWII, the ruling classes in both Britain and America had begun acting like red ants, not black ants. They have continued acting like red ants ever since.

      4. Red ants couldn’t care less about helping black ants. By the same token, the ruling classes in Britain and in America typically couldn’t have cared less about helping the British or American people, or the British or American nations.

      5. Due to the first four factors, Britain’s domestic and foreign policies cannot possibly be explained in terms of promoting Britain’s best interests. The same is also true of American policies.

      6. You are correct to state that American policy crippled Britain economically. In the postwar world, a strong Britain would have helped serve as a counterweight to the Soviet Union. Had the intention been to align American foreign policy with American interest, an effort would have been made to counter Soviet strength. But it was never the red ants’ intention to align American policy with American interests. Nor did they have any interest in countering the Soviet threat. They therefore went about crippling Britain (economic crippling) and West Germany (Morgenthau Plan), knowing full well such measures weakened Western Europe’s ability to withstand Soviet invasion.

      7. During WWII, a group of German generals had concluded that Germany could not win a two front war against the Soviet Union and the west. They’d planned to overthrow Hitler, make peace with the west, and focus Germany’s war efforts solely on the Soviets. But before doing all this, they first wanted to know what peace terms the Western democracies would demand. They sent a representative to FDR’s administration to discuss all this. The representative was told that America made no distinction between a Nazi and non-Nazi regime, and that it would only accept unconditional surrender from any German government. Unconditional surrender had to be to all the Allies, including the Soviet Union. After learning of this response, many German generals abandoned the plot to overthrow Hitler. The FDR administration’s response was fully consistent with its larger lack of concern about containing the Soviet threat, and with its usual lack of interest in helping the American nation.

      8. While the FDR administration typically had little interest in doing what was best for America, anti-British sentiment was stronger than anti-American sentiment. FDR felt that British colonialism was a disease, and Soviet-style revolution would make a perfectly good cure. In one of FDR’s meetings with Stalin, he suggested that India might benefit from revolution “along the Soviet lines.”

      9. FDR very much wanted to destroy Nazi Germany. For that, Britain needed strength. But once that intended purpose was achieved, then as far as FDR was concerned Britain’s strength could be thrown away. He had no further use for it.

      10. The British people are absolutely correct to feel unhappy about all this. There was never anything in it for them. Nor had the helping of Britain ever been anyone’s intention. (That specifically includes Britain’s own ruling elites.)

      11. Note that the typical Allied excuse for terror bombings and mass aerial exterminations of German and Japanese civilians was that such actions might “shorten the war” and “save the lives of Allied servicemen.” Had FDR cooperated with the German generals who’d wanted to overthrow Hitler, he could have shortened the war in Europe by two years, and saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Allied servicemen. FDR was not interested in shortening the war, or in saving the lives of Allied servicemen (black ants). Nor was he interested in preventing Soviet hegemony in the postwar world (which the German generals’ plan might also have accomplished).

      12. If a man such as FDR lacks benign intent toward his own country, it’s unrealistic to expect him to display benign intent toward any foreign power. The one exception to that rule was the Soviet Union, towards which FDR consistently displayed benign intent. Far more benign intent than he’d ever shown toward America. Part of the reason for that exception was that the Soviet government had massively penetrated the FDR administration, the American media, and other sources of political power. Part of FDR’s pro-Soviet stance could be seen as a logical response to the pro-Soviet political pressure caused by this massive penetration.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
    • RE: WWII–-75th ANNIVERSARY POLLS--#20--MARCH 1941

      @Private:

      Sorry Kurt - took a quick glance at your post and cannot see how it relates to the thread, nor how it is a reply to my post.

      Then I suggest you take a closer look.

      posted in World War II History
      KurtGodel7K
      KurtGodel7
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