Best posts made by Krieghund

@kwaspek104 Germany must hold both Moscow and Berlin for another round.

@Cernel said in Calling off landings:

You mean that I can partially call off the landings or that I must?

You can.

Am I able to call off all landings to a same land zone as long as at least 1 transport is offloading from what was a hostile sea zone, or what? What I understand, from the fact that the units have already landed, is that what you mean is “it is possible to call off an assault only partially if units arrived there from two different sea zones and if one involves a sea battle and the other does not”, but just wanted to be sure (meaning that, in this case, either I call off nothing, or I call off all the landings from the embattled sea zones, while still always landing from the non embattled one, no other possibilities).

You are able to call off all landings from sea zones where a sea battle was fought. You are not able to call off any landings from sea zones where a sea battle was not fought.

Also, if, instead, both sea zones involved sea battles, either I call off the landings from both or none, right? In this case, I would not be permitted to land from one but not from the other one, I assume?

Correct.

If so, then, what I said is hardly mostly correct, I’d say,

It looked mostly correct to me…

so let’s rewrite it, see if now I can be all correct:

• In AA Revised OOB, AA Europe and AA Pacific the calling off of landing follows the exact same rules for all these 3 rulesets (this is usually the case for these rulesets).

• In any other strategic WW2 AA Games, namely AA Classic I, II, III, AA Revised LHTR, AA Anniversary, AA Spring 1942, AA 1942 II, AA 1941, AA 1940 I, II, as well as any Alpha, there is nothing like this rule, so you must always offload all units from all surviving transports that didn’t retreat.

Correct.

• The calling off of landing is always decided per land zone (territory), never per sea zone, nor per coast, nor per offloading unit, nor per offloaded unit. Once I decide to call off landings in a land zone, all sea zones where landings can be called off are called off, but only for the transports offloading into that land zone, while all the other ones (the ones friendly since start turn) still offload.

If by “but only for the transports offloading into that land zone” you mean “but only for the transports offloading into that land zone from a sea zone where a battle took place”, then yes.

• When I offload units from a sea zone occupied by not ignorable (which is always the case in the relevant rulesets, as long as I’m in the combat move phase) enemy units, the offloading units remain cargo to the transports they are assigned to, albeit now inside a different zone (so, physically, during combat movement, I have the transports in one zone and their cargo in another zone, thus I have somewhat to keep track (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that) of what is carried by what, without being able to keep the units next to their transports, then, when adding units to the battle board, I can go back keeping track of what is cargo of what, by regular means, but I, now, need to keep track of what is offloaded into where (nothing telling me how I am supposed to do that)). Otherwise (in practice, only in case of offloading from sea zones completely empty of enemy units since start turn), the offloaded units stop being cargo immediately as they move into the land zone (thus I’m relieved from having to keep track of where is what), as they offload.

I’m not sure what you mean about the transports and their cargo being in different zones, but this is correct otherwise. Cargo from transports not fighting a sea battle is offloaded into the target zone during combat movement, while cargo from transports that are fighting a sea battle is offloaded into the target zone during the combat phase. In both cases, the cargo remains with the transports until it’s offloaded.

• Only landings of units offloaded from transports that did so from hostile sea zones can be called off, and no matter if I’m offloading into a completely empty enemy territory or a defended one or even if I’m offloading into a territory I own (which I can do only in case I’m offloading into an empty territory that was blitzed during the same turn).

• I cannot (or, rather, don’t have to) call off any landings after I finish any naval battles, as the only moment I can do this is upon starting, or not starting, that land battle.

Correct.

Example:
The game is Axis&Allies Revised (OOB).
I have a land zone A, a land zone B and a land zone C.
The land zone A is being attacked from sea and air only.
The land zone B is being attacked from sea only.
The land zone C is being attacked from land and air only.
I have a sea zone D, a sea zone E and a sea zone F.
A bunch of transports are offloading from D to A.
A bunch of transports are offloading from D to B.
A bunch of transports are offloading from E to A.
A bunch of transports are offloading from F to A.
No other combat movements are being made.
D is occupied by enemy units.
E is occupied by enemy units.
F is not occupied by enemy units.

So, I generate the following set of battles: A, B, C, D, E
I can resolve these battles in any order, provided that I resolve D before resolving A or B and I resolve E before resolving A.

1:
I resolve the battle in D, winning with all transports surviving.
At this point I don’t have nor cannot decide if the transports are actually offloading.
I can now resolve whatever battles but A (I can now resolve B, if I want).

2:
I resolve the battle in E, winning with all transports surviving.
At this point I don’t have nor cannot decide if the transports are actually offloading.
I can now resolve whatever remaining battles.

3:
I resolve the battle in C (which I could have resolved as first, since nothing is offloading into it).

So far, so good…

4:
I resolve the battle in A and, at this point, before starting anything else battle related, I decide to call off the landings into A. That is calling off all and only the landings from sea zones there were hostile at the start of the turn, and no matter if my units are offloading at full strength, just like if there were no battles, as I didn’t lose any transports (thus, substantially, as long as I don’t lose any transports, enemy sea units give me this additional option, of calling off landings, for free, beside any casualties in the sea battle I had to sustain and the inability of using naval bombardment from those zones).

Yes, but you couldn’t have bombarded from the zone anyway, as there was a battle there.

In doing so, my only option is either to call off all landings from hostile or none: I cannot decide to land from D but not from E, nor vice versa, and I must always land from F.
So, calling off the landings, the only thing that can possibly happen is that the units offloaded from D and E stay all on board, while all the units from F offload, then make at least 1 round of battle with the land units from F and the air units, then I can decide to retreat the air units only.

Yes, and the units from F must fight to the death.

5:
I resolve the battle in B and, at this point, before starting anything else battle related, I have to decide if to call off all landings, that, in this case, are all from D (no matter if I already positively decided to call off landings from that sea zone (to A)), and I decide not to.
Then, while all transports offloading from D to A had their landings called off, all transports offloading from D to B actually offload, into the B territory.
Thus I resolve the battle in B, nothing in it being possibly able to retreat.

Is this all correct, now?

Yes, with the caveats noted above.

If so, I still have some questions (with these questions I don’t mean I don’t trust you, I just want to understand why am I blind).

How can you be that sure that

you may only call off an amphibious when it is preceded by a sea battle

About calling off landings, all I see is this section:

Amphibious Assaults
In an amphibious assault, land
units offload from transports
and attack an enemy coastal
territory (one that borders a
sea zone) or island group. The
attacker must declare the target
of an amphibious assault during
the combat move phase. During
the conduct combat phase, that
player may call off the landing
but cannot redirect the attack to
a different territory.

My assumption was that, having no reference to any previous sea combat and especially since this rule is part of the general “Amphibious Assaults” section (and even part of the same paragraph as all the rest!), and written even before the “Sea Combat” section, the only logical way to collocate it was as the rule being, well, general, for any Amphibious Assaults (comprising the ones from friendly sea zones).

What I’m understanding is that you derive this from the fact that the rulebook makes clear enough that units landed from friendly sea zones are already offloaded on the combat move phase, thus they are not anymore linked to any other units in any ways, hence there is nothing to call off.

So, is this just a matter of the rulebook being not very clear, or am I missing something that clarifies?

The rule you quoted states that the landing may be called off “during the conduct combat phase”. On page 31, the Rulebook states that, “A transport may offload its cargo during the combat move phase into a hostile territory, beginning an amphibious assault. If enemy sea units are present in the sea zone in which the transport is to offload, a sea combat must be fought first.” So, when offloading from a friendly sea zone, the offloading is done during the combat move phase, and it has already been executed when the decision whether to offload units depending on the results of combat is made. This is one of the reasons why calling off amphibious assaults isn’t allowed in the other games.

Are you sure that this rules doesn’t apply in calling off all landings as long as at least one of them was from a hostile sea zone? What it would make the most sense to me is that if I’m offloading into a land zone A from a sea zone B and a sea zone C, and a naval battle is happening only in B, I should be either calling off both the B and C landing, or none, not only the B one. Are you sure it is against the rule calling off both B and C, and I must always either call off all in B and none in C or none at all?

That makes sense to me, as well, but it’s not what the rules say.

The reason why this would make the most sense to me is that I believe the main application of this rule is in case you took some transports as casualties, thus you think it is not anymore a good idea to land what is left. But, in this case, there is really no difference if I’m offloading 8 infantry from 4 transports in a same sea zone, and I lose 2 transports, in that sea zone, as opposed to offloading 4 infantry from 2 transports in an embattled sea zone and other 4 infantry from 2 transports in another not embattled sea zone, then losing the sea battle. In both cases, I’m down to 4 infantries, from a maximum of 8, thus I may want to call off the landings for the exact same reasons. Are you sure that in the second case that is not possible?

I agree, and I’m sure.

Also, I think it’s very nonsensical that you can call off landings before starting a land battle but you cannot call off air units too, before starting the same battle. In case I have a land battle with all land units in it offloaded from a single sea zone, and I call off the landings, all air units in the battle are being obliged to make 1 combat round alone, which is usually a terrible thing to do, and pretty much it is going virtually to always take out my ability to call off landings, as I don’t want to sacrifice my air units to save some land. I think it would be much more realistic (and much more usable!) if I can call off all air together with calling off the landings, instead of being forced into an air only attack, in a territory I just don’t want to attack anymore, with my “D-Day” force or something. Was this something overlooked, when adding the calling-off landings rule, moving forward from Classic (I’m assuming this rule was added to enhance realism…)? If I have sea borne only with air, it is only logical to assume these air units are starting attacking as my soldiers land on the beaches, thus I should not be obliged to make any air attack if no soldiers are landing on the beaches, nor attacking from anywhere else, as you would think no air units have yet started attacking. If it is missing, I think it is needed a rule that if no land units remain after calling off landings, then I can call off all air units too, otherwise it doesn’t really make sense.

This all goes back to the fact that transports offload during the combat phase if there’s a sea battle. It’s all about timing. By the time you can decide whether or not the call off the landing, you’ve already committed other forces. Chalk it up to miscommunication and the fog of war.

Also, a related matter, if I have units already loaded onto an allied transport that is in a hostile sea zone (which can only happen if the enemy mobilized units there after I loaded, and my turn is in between of the enemy turn and the turn of that ally of mine), does that block me from possibly offloading them anywhere, since I cannot resolve any combat involving that transport, in the hostile sea zone, on my turn?

If you can clear the sea zone with your units, you can offload them. Since any sea battle will not involve your ally, the transport is not at risk and failure to clear the zone will simply result in the cargo’s not being able to offload.

@hengst Also, per pages 38 and 39, UK-ANZAC is allowed to declare war on Japan at the beginning of the Combat Move phase of any of either of those powers’ turns, so the relationship between Japan and the USA has no effect on their ability to declare war.

@Slip-Capone None that are official, but some have been created by various organizations for their own use at conventions.

@kwaspek104 The fighter is eliminated.

There is no limit. If you run out of pieces, you may use proxies.

@pacifiersboard

No, it applies to all Japanese-controlled territories. However, New Zealand was not Japanese-controlled when the destroyer ended its movement there. It can remain there indefinitely, but if it moves away it may not return.

@Aknorian Yes. See page 34 of the Rulebook.

I’m not aware of any of the rules being officially translated into either Mandarin or Cantonese. Revised was the most widely-translated version, but that page is long gone from the AH website. As Panther said, BGG is your best bet for a fan-made translation.

The point of agreement on how to represent additional units is that all players can easily recognize what each proxy represents in order to facilitate game play, and it should be reached before starting the game. Anyone who would use this to attempt to gain some sort of advantage is someone you should think twice about playing with.

@surfer You are correct, and your opponent is incorrect.

Russia needs to have at least one unit in territories shared between it and the Central Powers, in order to indicate this shared status. However, there’s no reason why you need to leave any units in territories that Russia has full control of, other than simply not taking the time to remove them during the game.

The reason that it can’t offload more than once is that if it did so during combat movement it would be involved, though indirectly, in multiple combats. This would require complicated rules, as there would be cases where it could be done and cases where it could not be done. Transport movement is already complicated enough without adding more exceptions, so it was decided that a transport’s movement would end once it offloads, period, no exceptions. It was felt that any flexibility added by allowing multiple offloads wasn’t worth adding more complication to transport rules.

Transports are no different than other units in this game as regards casualties. They don’t need to be taken last, and they are not automatically destroyed when alone. If you choose to sacrifice your warships to protect your transports, they can retreat if they survive.

@gamerman01 Unfortunately, I’m not sure where, if anywhere, the FAQs are currently posted. They are scheduled to be posted on this site at some point, but it hasn’t happened yet.

I am compiling an official document, and will post it here and on BGG when it’s ready.

@nerddog Unfortunately, WotC never updated the online versions of the Rulebooks with the latest changes, and Hasbro has placed those same versions on their website (Hasbro took control of Avalon Hill from WotC last year). Additionally, Hasbro has not placed the FAQs on their site, and I’m concerned that they never will. I have contacted them regarding the importance of providing the FAQs, but I have been met only with silence.

I have provided the most recent versions of all of the FAQs, including those for the out-of-print games, to this site for publication. As of now, they have not yet been posted, but I’ve been assured that they will be.

These FAQs should contain most, if not all, of the clarifications you mentioned (including the one about AAA). However, since they will not be on the Avalon Hill website, there will be individuals who will not consider them to be “official” (there were some who didn’t consider things on Larry Harris’ site to be official), even though they were previously published on the WotC site.

@cernel That’s quite a loophole you’ve discovered. It’s things like this that made LHTR necessary. You are correct about point 1. Regarding point 2, I see nothing in the rules that would disallow attacking an unoccupied enemy-controlled territory with only air units.

@andrewaagamer said in Mongolia again (groan) Global 2nd Edition:

Two ways to look at this:

1. Reason A is dominant and supersedes and cancels any other Reason. (Which leads to your ruling)
2. Reason A is limited to the Soviet/Japan conflict and does not override Reason B which leads to my statement.

The first way is correct, as indicated by the phrase, “In all other respects and for all other purposes”.

The tipping point for me is if Reason A is dominant than if any other Allied Power rather than Russia, (US, UK, ANZAC or France), attacks Mongolia, Mongolia WOULD NOT turn Pro-Axis. This goes against every other instance regarding Neutrality in the rules. A standard is if a Neutral is attacked it becomes Pro to the opposing factions.

Yes, that’s true, but Mongolia is an exceptional case. Its ties to the USSR against Japan are so strong that an attack upon it by another Allied power would not change its stance to pro-Axis, and it would remain strict neutral. The same is true if an Allied power attacks another strict neutral.

Larry’s rules are “generic”, intended to be used by anyone who wants to use them in a tournament (or non-tournament) setting. Greg’s rules are based on Larry’s rules, but have some tweaks necessary for his tournament format. In any tournament situation, the official rules for that tournament should be used. In the case of Gen Con and Origins, those would be the rules on Greg’s site.