Best posts made by Krieghund

In the latest printing, that last sentence reads, “Transports may not attack in a sea battle without being accompanied by at least 1 unit with an attack value.”

@reloader-1 Hmmm, it looks like you’re right. It is listed as MiG in the Rulebook, and that seems to be an error. I have modified the list accordingly.

To be clear, the 30 IPC payment that the US receives immediately upon an unprovoked declaration of war by Japan is not an NO. It is in addition to the US NOs. This payment occurs only in the Pacific game, and not in the Global game.

Updated for North Africa and Renegade’s Guadalcanal reprint.

The “why” is based on historical reality. Until the surprise attacks of late 1941, Japan was at war only with China, and not with anyone in the Pacific. Therefore, any Japanese naval presence close to the USA mainland would have been seen as an act of aggression, as they would have no business being there.

In contrast, Germany was at war with the United Kingdom, and it was engaged in active warfare in the Atlantic. German submarines roamed the Atlantic pretty much freely until the United States entered the war.

@kwaspek104 The answer to all three questions is “yes”.

@AndrewAAGamer is correct.

@Cernel:

In Revised OOB, if a unit was already loaded before the turn, can you offload it during Non Combat Movement, if the transport offloaded something during Combat Movement, but only as long as you offload it into the same territory? And, one way or another, nothing changes whether the transport took part in a victorious sea battle too or not?

Correct.

@Cernel:

For example, you have 1 infantry already loaded on the transport. You load 1 second infantry on the transport, sending it into a sea borne assault, during Combat Movement. Then, if you conquer it, can you offload the already loaded infantry, to the same territory, during Non Combat Movement? And how about if the already loaded unit is an AA gun, rest being the same?

These are both legal.

@Cernel:

Also, I’m fairly sure that at least for any rulesets from Revised LHTR onwards a transport may never offload in both Combat and Non Combat Movement, which is the case for Classic too. So the matter here, then, would be whether Revised OOB is the only one exception to this general rule or not.

The original Europe (1999) and Pacific (2001) games also allow this, but no others do.

@Cernel:

Shorter version, I’m substantially asking if in Revised OOB you can ever offload in both Combat and Non Combat Movement and, if so, in what cases (full list)?

The only circumstances under which a transport may offload in both combat and noncombat movement are those that you have described above.

ANZAC (and UK) can. USA cannot.

@Panther said in Revised Submerge/Withdraw Order:

A hint could be found on page 32. Here it reads: “A submarine may submerge in combat after the attacker and defender have fired, regardless of what other units do.”

Now the words “may submerge in combat” could give a hint on how to deal with a defending sub when the attacker has retreated/submerged all of his units, as we could consider combat being over then: no more combat -> no more submerging.

This is correct. If the attacker retreats/submerges all units, combat is over, and the defender may not submerge.

@pacifiersboard No. Neutral powers may not enter neutral territories, and no exception is made in this case.

AndrewAAGamer is correct regarding LHTR, but it’s different in OOB.

In scenario 1, you may legally do as you propose. There is no rule that would prevent it. Of course, the carrier must survive the battle, or the fighters will be lost.

In scenario 2, the fighters may not move in noncombat movement after the carrier retreats. In order for a fighter on a carrier to move in NCM, it must launch before the carrier moves. Retreat is a type of movement. Normally, if fighters on a carrier want to move in NCM when their carrier makes a combat movement, they must launch in CM and remain in the sea zone, but in this scenario if they did so they would participate in the battle and would not be eligible to make a noncombat movement (though they could, of course, still land after the battle).

@shadowhawk Yes, and it will prevent the amphibious assault. From the FAQ:

Q. Say the United Kingdom launches an amphibious assault from a US transport without any supporting UK sea or air units in the sea zone, and then the defender scrambles. What happens?

A. In effect, nothing happens. The US transport doesn’t participate in the sea battle because it’s not the US’s turn. Since there are no attacking sea or air units, there is no sea battle. However, the sea zone can’t be cleared of defending combat units, so the amphibious assault can’t proceed.

@Cernel The intent of the rules is simply that before combat you must demonstrate a way that all of your air units can be landed safely afterwards, and that after combat you must land as many of them as possible. It is not intended that movement declared for the former must be executed exactly as demonstrated in order to ensure the latter (unless, of course, that is the only choice), as situations can change during combat. I agree that this could be more clearly stated, but it is at least hinted at by the sentence, “Once possible landing zones for all attacking air units have been demonstrated, you have no obligation to guarantee those landing zones for air units in the course of battle.”

@Azimuth You’re probably technically correct, but even though noncombat movement is conceptually simultaneous, it must be physically done in a certain order. The wording simply implies that the alternate landing be resolved first, though it’s not really important that it occur in that order.

By the way, “ping pong” seems like an odd name to me for this maneuver. “Leapfrog” seems more applicable.

@shadowhawk said in Know The Rules: How Boats Can Move 4 Spaces:

@dazedwit

Yea you can even use that to move your axis ships through the gibraltar straight without actually owning gibraltar. Just have 1 sub attack from the other side and you can retreat through a seazone you cannot even sail through.

That’s not legal. Retreat is a form of movement, so the rules for canals and narrow straits apply. Retreat through the strait in this case would only be a legal option if only attacking subs survive.

@dazedwit Again, only if only subs survive. The Axis must control Gibraltar at the beginning of Germany’s turn in order for its surface ships to pass through. See page 9 of the Europe Rulebook.

@dazedwit From page 9 of the Europe Rulebook:

If your side (but not necessarily your power) controlled a canal or narrow strait at the start of your turn, you may move sea units through it (you can’t use it in the same turn that you capture it). If a canal or narrow strait is controlled by a power not on your side, but with which you are not yet at war, you must ask permission to use it, which may be denied. You can’t move sea units through a canal or narrow strait that is controlled by a neutral territory or by a power with which you are at war.

From page 11 of the Europe Rulebook:

When a neutral territory is invaded, it’s no longer considered neutral and immediately becomes hostile to the alliance of the power that attacked it and friendly to the opposing alliance. For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia, Yugoslavia would join the Allies.

And also:

If the attack upon the formerly neutral territory is unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), any remaining defending units stay in the territory but can’t move. The territory remains uncontrolled (place a national control marker on it face down to indicate its new status) but is considered friendly to powers on the side it’s now allied with. Units belonging to those powers can move into it and take control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral.

In your scenario, Italy attacks Turkey and fails to capture it, so Turkey joins the Allies (it doesn’t become a pro-Allies neutral), but it is not yet controlled by an Allied power. Obviously, Turkey is not controlled by the Axis at the beginning of Germany’s turn, so German units don’t have implicit permission to pass through the straits. If either ANZAC or France has taken control of Turkey, it is controlled by a power at war with Germany; otherwise it remains uncontrolled and the straits are not controlled by a power on the other side, so there is no one to ask permission of to pass, therefore permission cannot be granted. Either way, German sea units cannot move through the straits.

@Black A power does not cease to exist when all of its territories are captured. Japan could still, in theory. liberate Berlin and/or Rome and bring Germany and/or Italy back into the game, thus they are never truly eliminated until the game is over. Therefore, even though all of the German and Italian territories have been captured, the Allies remain at war in Europe.

@SeaYa Another key sentence is in the first paragraph quoted above:

Chinese territories on the game board have a Nationalist Chinese emblem on them.

Kwangtung does not have one, therefore it is not a Chinese territory. An industrial complex there would not be removed if China gains control, and China cannot mobilize new units there.